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Kommissar Kel wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:look at the rule again;

Grotsnik must move closer as must his unit. The unit also has a rule saying Grotsnik must move closer as must the unit.

by that reading the unit doesn't have to move closer at all, only grotsnik(although the unit must remain in coherency).

I think you mis-read me.

Editing to add:
Ooops, I get what you are saying now.

I misread also.

I was reading the Fearless part and conflating it with the moves.

Listen to Kommissar Kel.

Yes, but one could also say that ruling only applies during the movement phase. Running is not movement, it is an action taken in the shooting phase.

I know we are parsing words here, but the rule says he must move as fast as possible. If you also take that to say he must run as fast as possible, you have effectively said he can only attack once per game. The INAT FAQ says Grotsnik can shoot or run at the player's discretion.

Personally, I just move the closest model directly towards it and then I move the rest in the general direction. Otherwise, you would always end up with the unit collapsing into one big ball of orks everytime it hit terrain that would bottleneck it.

Nevermind the post that was here.

When in assasult being these guys are IC, and are counted alone after this what would be stopping me from moving away from That Group ? Reading the rules under IC , i would have to say nothing and this would allow you to leave the group. Under Bloodlust say clearly states "HE" not the unit ?

ICs can only leave units in the movement phase; when in Close Combat ICs are only Separate for Determining Who can fight, and Initiative steps 10-1; as soon as step I1 is finished the IC is back in the Unit completely. ICs also have their own special rules for Assault Moves, Defenders react moves, and Pile-in Moves.

Kommissar Kel wrote:grotsnik's special rage is different from regular rage: His bloodlust states that he must move towards the nearest enemy unit, and also states that the Bloodlust is granted to any unit he joins; this means that every model in the unit(since they all now have the One scalpel short rule) must individually move as close to the enemy unit as possible. This also means Ol' Zoggy cannot leave should he join.

It is possible that intervening terrain would allow every model in the unit to follow that rule yet the IC ends up out of coherency (whilst the other models must obey the rule and also end in coherency, attached ICs must only follow the rule). It's not likely but it is possible. In that circumstance, the IC MUST leave the unit.

If the IC is joined to the unit; and the unit moves around Impassable terrain to get as close as possible as fast as possible, and at the end of the attempted move the IC is out of coherency attempting to follow the rule of "as fast as Possible"; the move for the IC is then invalidated(on account of units being forced to remain in coherency, and the ICs not being allowed to Leave via the "1SS" rule) and therefore the IC must move back to his original possition and follow the unit(even though that would technically take that IC on a longer route, it would keep him in coherency with his unit, and as such still be following the RAW).

Why is he required to remain in coherency? 1SS doesn't prohibit other ICs from leaving the unit and ICs are not bound by coherency in the movement phase.

Not getting into the part about Grotsnik, but wanted to clarify about the Psychic power part.

Didn't see it in the rest of the thread, but under the Weirdboyz psychic power chart, it states he must test at the beginning of that Ork shooting phase, so RAW, you actually have to use the Weirdboy before anything else in the Ork shooting phase, or at least roll for the Psychic test, and if you roll for a Psychic test, you can't run, if I remember correctly.

So, if what I said is right, any Ork psyker and any unit he is attached to can never run, even with a WAAAGH!!!!. But then again, I play DE, I don't use psykers, so might be a bit fuzzy on if you have to use a power if you do a psychic test.

All it states in the BRB is that in order to use a Psychic power, you must pass a Psychic test. It doesn't state that you HAVE to use the power if you pass the test, so not sure on that one.

Galador wrote:Didn't see it in the rest of the thread, but under the Weirdboyz psychic power chart, it states he must test at the beginning of that Ork shooting phase, so RAW, you actually have to use the Weirdboy before anything else in the Ork shooting phase, or at least roll for the Psychic test, and if you roll for a Psychic test, you can't run, if I remember correctly.

Using a power doesn't mean you can't run - you would only be prevented from running if you used a psychic shooting attack.

Scott-S6 wrote:Why is he required to remain in coherency? 1SS doesn't prohibit other ICs from leaving the unit and ICs are not bound by coherency in the movement phase.

1SS specifies(through gigantic logical fallacy) that ICs cannot leave; Well it specifies that Grotsnik, must move closer, the grotsnik cannot leave, and that all members of the unit(this includes other ICs as they are now members of the unit) have 1SS. If all members have it and the rules are all read to only specify that grotsnik is the only one effected by it(as opposed to the logical extension to the othert members of the unit to be used in place of "grotsnik" in the rules text); then all members of the unit would not be under the effects of 1SS at all(meaning that Only Grotsnik would have to move towards the enemy unit as fast as possible and cannot leave, and every member of the unit enforces that).

It all comes down to one of those shady areas; Either Every member of the unit keeps grotsnik alone being insane, or they all get grotsniks insanity applied to them(the must move as fast as possible is definitely conferred as that is the "bloodlust" portion of his rule, which is what is conferred; and the inability the leave is "justified" through GWs logical fallacy that it is caused by that very same "bloodlust").

Scott-S6 wrote:

Galador wrote:Didn't see it in the rest of the thread, but under the Weirdboyz psychic power chart, it states he must test at the beginning of that Ork shooting phase, so RAW, you actually have to use the Weirdboy before anything else in the Ork shooting phase, or at least roll for the Psychic test, and if you roll for a Psychic test, you can't run, if I remember correctly.

Using a power doesn't mean you can't run - you would only be prevented from running if you used a psychic shooting attack.

So basically, he has to test, then he has to roll on the chart or use Zogwort's curse, and as long as it wasn't a 1,2, or 3, he can still run then, correct??

Galador: correct,

Kommissar Kel wrote:Galador: correct,

Wow, we agreed on something for once!!! (j/k btw )

Are you saying that because the rules says As fast as Possible that you have to run in the Shoot phase ? The rule never states that at all even if you want to have that implied?

I guess this wasn't exactly the place for Galador's ancillary question; That wasn't what he was asking.


His initial post about Weirdboyz/Warpheads/Zogwart running, was not under an assumption that with Grotsnik they must run, rather: "Should they choose to run, how is that handled(as they must take a psychic test and must roll on the power chart, which make them shoot)?"

The answer to which is: so long as 1-3(on the power chart) is not rolled, they may run freely.