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I have been playing Zogwort for a while now and I do have a couple of questions. I think I know the answers, but just wondering what the consensus is:

1. If he is attached to a unit and runs, is he not allowed to use his psychic abilities?
2. If I roll for his weirdboy power, I am alllowed to reroll because he is a warphead. On my reroll am I now allowed to take Zogwort's Curse and not roll again? And, to be even more devious, can I declare it on an IC I know is out of range just to not take the die roll (i.e. I rolled 'eadbanger and don't wanna blow his poor lil' brain up)?
3. I have attached him to a unit with Mad Dok Grotsnik. Grotsnik's bloodlust does not allow him to leave the unit. However, does it work in reverse? Can Zogwort leave the unit while the Mad Dok is in it?

Thanks,

1. If he is attached to a unit and runs, is he not allowed to use his psychic abilities?
A) I think you can use the power, however you cannot use any classified as psychic shooting attacks (see Gw Orks FAQ)

2. If I roll for his weirdboy power, I am alllowed to reroll because he is a warphead. On my reroll am I now allowed to take Zogwort's Curse and not roll again? And, to be even more devious, can I declare it on an IC I know is out of range just to not take the die roll (i.e. I rolled 'eadbanger and don't wanna blow his poor lil' brain up)?
A) I cannot confirm as I dont have my codex with me, but I think you can use the curse in addition to a psychic power

3. I have attached him to a unit with Mad Dok Grotsnik. Grotsnik's bloodlust does not allow him to leave the unit. However, does it work in reverse? Can Zogwort leave the unit while the Mad Dok is in it?
A) Can't really help with this one, so will have to pass it on to another poster!

1) taking his psychic test is the first thing done in the shooting phase, before running is an option.

2) You may either A) roll on the chart, with one re-roll allowed OR B) choose to use Zogwort's Curse instead. RAW you are not allowed to roll on the chart and then decide to use the curse instead of the rolled result.

3) I believe that the good Dok's bloodlust would also be conferred to Zogwort, and thus not allow him to leave the unit either, but I am not 100% sure on this.

Leigen_Zero wrote:1. If he is attached to a unit and runs, is he not allowed to use his psychic abilities?
A) I think you can use the power, however you cannot use any classified as psychic shooting attacks (see Gw Orks FAQ)

So, he and the unit he is attached to can only run if it's warpath or waugh!? Frazzle, 'eadbanger and zzap are shooting. 'Ere we go teleports?

Leigen_Zero wrote:
2. If I roll for his weirdboy power, I am alllowed to reroll because he is a warphead. On my reroll am I now allowed to take Zogwort's Curse and not roll again? And, to be even more devious, can I declare it on an IC I know is out of range just to not take the die roll (i.e. I rolled 'eadbanger and don't wanna blow his poor lil' brain up)?
A) I cannot confirm as I dont have my codex with me, but I think you can use the curse in addition to a psychic power

The rules say "Zogwort may use his curse as a psychic power instead of rolling on the weirdboy chart." I would take it to mean you either choose the curse or choose to roll. However, for those who like to parse words, if you got a roll you did not like, could you choose the curse in lieu of a re-roll?

Leigen_Zero wrote:
3. I have attached him to a unit with Mad Dok Grotsnik. Grotsnik's bloodlust does not allow him to leave the unit. However, does it work in reverse? Can Zogwort leave the unit while the Mad Dok is in it?
A) Can't really help with this one, so will have to pass it on to another poster!

So, he and the unit he is attached to can only run if it's warpath or waugh!? Frazzle, 'eadbanger and zzap are shooting. 'Ere we go teleports?

basically yes. Results of 1, 2, and 3 all count as shooting attacks. 'Ere we Go! makes you count as deep striking, so could also run after the deep strike deployment.

The rules say "Zogwort may use his curse as a psychic power instead of rolling on the weirdboy chart." I would take it to mean you either choose the curse or choose to roll. However, for those who like to parse words, if you got a roll you did not like, could you choose the curse in lieu of a re-roll?

Again, no. You would have already elected to roll in lieu of using the curse. Re-rolling is re-rolling, not choosing to make a different action.

Green is Best! wrote:I have been playing Zogwort for a while now and I do have a couple of questions. I think I know the answers, but just wondering what the consensus is:

1. If he is attached to a unit and runs, is he not allowed to use his psychic abilities?
2. If I roll for his weirdboy power, I am alllowed to reroll because he is a warphead. On my reroll am I now allowed to take Zogwort's Curse and not roll again? And, to be even more devious, can I declare it on an IC I know is out of range just to not take the die roll (i.e. I rolled 'eadbanger and don't wanna blow his poor lil' brain up)?
3. I have attached him to a unit with Mad Dok Grotsnik. Grotsnik's bloodlust does not allow him to leave the unit. However, does it work in reverse? Can Zogwort leave the unit while the Mad Dok is in it?

Thanks,

1.) No psychic shooting attacks if you run.

2.) Nice try but no, weirdboy power w/ reroll or Curse.

3.) Zogwort can leave the unit per the normal IC limitations, nothing in the rules indicates otherwise.

CageUF wrote:
1.) No psychic shooting attacks if you run.

2.) Nice try but no, weirdboy power w/ reroll or Curse.

3.) Zogwort can leave the unit per the normal IC limitations, nothing in the rules indicates otherwise.

1. I agree
2. I agree, but just wondering what consensus was.
3. I disagree. My thoughts were "bloodlust" conveys and ties Zoggy to the unit, even though I wish it did not.

3. They are both independent characters, so they cannot both join a unit. However they can each join eachother to form a dual-IC unit. In which case I believe Zogwort could leave it, but Grotsnik could not.

3. They are both independent characters, so they cannot both join a unit. However they can each join eachother to form a dual-IC unit. In which case I believe Zogwort could leave it, but Grotsnik could not.

I thought 2 IC's could join the same unit? However even if they were to join each other and become a unit of 2, Dok would then confer rage USR to Zogwort and both would then have to continue in the exact same pathing, and thus never be able to disband from eachother.

My 2 cents on it anyway.

Except nowhere in Grotsnik's rules does it say anything about applying the Rage USR ><

Disarray wrote:3. They are both independent characters, so they cannot both join a unit. However they can each join eachother to form a dual-IC unit. In which case I believe Zogwort could leave it, but Grotsnik could not.

IC's may join units. There is no prohibition on more than one joining the same unit.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

CageUF wrote:3.) Zogwort can leave the unit per the normal IC limitations, nothing in the rules indicates otherwise.

However, he is still affected by One Scapel Short until such time as he leaves the unit.

If you can make a move following the restrictions of One Scapel Short which ends with him out of coherency then he has left the unit. I'm not sure how that would be accomplished though.

Zogwart could leave anytime he wants. The rule does not say anything about any other guy, only Mad dok.

You have to make your roll on the chart at the start of the shooting phase. That should answer your question there. You have to make the roll unless you plan on using the curse. If you were to roll ear we go the you would never be able to run. If you rolled warpath and there was a waaagh going on then you would get the plus one. So yes you have to make the roll even if you plan on running !

jordan23ryan wrote:Zogwart could leave anytime he wants. The rule does not say anything about any other guy, only Mad dok.

"Furthermore, Grotsnik is so bloodthirsty that he will always move as fast as possible towards the nearest enemy, assaulting it if possible. This bloodlust is conferred to any unit he joins."

If Zogwart and Grotsnik are joined into the same unit, they have to BOTH always move along the same path. As stated above, if you could follow the quoted restrictions and still detach Zogwart, then you are legal. However, I also see there being very few ways that would be possible.

I agree while he is in the unit he has to follow the rules of Mad Dok, but he can leave anytime.

To leave he must end the movement phase out of coherency. How can he do that when he is forced to move towards the nearest enemy like the rest of the squad?

See the 4th bullet point on P48.

Thanks for catching me out on the curse/power thing, I didn't have the 'dex to hand and was trying to recall from memory (something I quite badly failed at!)

Scott-S6 wrote:To leave he must end the movement phase out of coherency. How can he do that when he is forced to move towards the nearest enemy like the rest of the squad?

See the 4th bullet point on P48.

yes i agree with you, but what you pointed out about coherency is it never says he can not his own way to get to the target. It does not say anything about going a straight line either. it says fast as possible, How i see that is you move 6 " in that direction. If that is right then it would be easy for a IC to leave. It sounds like stretching the rules but read page 12 in BRB. Since we are talking about a IC and they have special rules for enter and leaving a unit. I don't see how Page 12 forces a IC to follow those rules since the IC already have there own Rules for this kinda of Issue.

Scott-S6 wrote:To leave he must end the movement phase out of coherency. How can he do that when he is forced to move towards the nearest enemy like the rest of the squad?

See the 4th bullet point on P48.

G = Grotsnik
Z = Zogwort
E = Enemy
. = 1"

E....G..Z....E

In this case, G could move towards the left, and Z towards the right, as they do not have to stay in coherency, they may split up. However, after their movement phase is ended they are no longer in coherency, and therefore not in the same unit, and therefore Zogwort is not subject to Grotsnik's "bloodlust".

Nightwatch wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:To leave he must end the movement phase out of coherency. How can he do that when he is forced to move towards the nearest enemy like the rest of the squad?

See the 4th bullet point on P48.

G = Grotsnik
Z = Zogwort
E = Enemy
. = 1"

E....G..Z....E

In this case, G could move towards the left, and Z towards the right, as they do not have to stay in coherency, they may split up. However, after their movement phase is ended they are no longer in coherency, and therefore not in the same unit, and therefore Zogwort is not subject to Grotsnik's "bloodlust".

This is the same thing i was saying and i agree. This of coarse only works with a IC since they can move about.

Nightwatch wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:To leave he must end the movement phase out of coherency. How can he do that when he is forced to move towards the nearest enemy like the rest of the squad?

See the 4th bullet point on P48.

G = Grotsnik
Z = Zogwort
E = Enemy
. = 1"

E....G..Z....E

In this case, G could move towards the left, and Z towards the right, as they do not have to stay in coherency, they may split up. However, after their movement phase is ended they are no longer in coherency, and therefore not in the same unit, and therefore Zogwort is not subject to Grotsnik's "bloodlust".

In that case they did not move as fast as possible towards the enemy. If they have both moved as fast as possible towards the enemy then they should still be in coherency.

You could split them up using an angled vehicle - if the squad is strung out and the vehicle positioned such that the IC's fastest route towards the enemy is around one side but the rest of the unit's fastest move is around the other then they will take those routes. In that circumstance, the IC MUST split from the squad.

Moving a unit as close to another unit as possible does not require every model in the unit to move as close to that other unit as possible. If the model in the moving unit that is closest to the target unit moves as close as possible the entire unit has moved as close as possible. See main rules, page 3: Measuring Distances.



Grotsnik himself must also move as close as possible, though, as he has a rule stating he must.

Unless I am mis-reading.

kirsanth wrote:Moving a unit as close to another unit as possible does not require every model in the unit to move as close to that other unit as possible. If the model in the moving unit that is closest to the target unit moves as close as possible the entire unit has moved as close as possible. See main rules, page 3: Measuring Distances.

Grotsnik himself must also move as close as possible, though, as he has a rule stating he must.

Unless I am mis-reading.

This is true. An attached IC would either have to move as close as possible or remain a part of the unit, though. If he leaves the unit and did not himself move as close as possible then he has not satisfied the requirements of the rule.

There is more then one way to see this. This would need to be FAQ to get the answer. If i played this build i would play as the ID can Leave. If the unit was to get shot at and 2 guys died then you could make it where they were not in the 2" range and then he could leave just as easy. Why go through all that trouble when it is going to happen anyways ?

Scott-S6 wrote:

kirsanth wrote:Moving a unit as close to another unit as possible does not require every model in the unit to move as close to that other unit as possible. If the model in the moving unit that is closest to the target unit moves as close as possible the entire unit has moved as close as possible. See main rules, page 3: Measuring Distances.

Grotsnik himself must also move as close as possible, though, as he has a rule stating he must.

Unless I am mis-reading.

This is true. An attached IC would either have to move as close as possible or remain a part of the unit, though. If he leaves the unit and did not himself move as close as possible then he has not satisfied the requirements of the rule.

grotsnik's special rage is different from regular rage: His bloodlust states that he must move towards the nearest enemy unit, and also states that the Bloodlust is granted to any unit he joins; this means that every model in the unit(since they all now have the One scalpel short rule) must individually move as close to the enemy unit as possible. This also means Ol' Zoggy cannot leave should he join.

I play it that once Zoggy joins the unit, he is stuck to it. Now, if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, how are you supposed to apply this One Scalpel rule when Zogwort gets a 'ere we go?

This happened over the weekend and I just moved Zogwort to an open spot on the board that would out me closer to the enemy units, but still give me some room to scatter without hitting something.

Now, here is where I wonder how people would interpret this. Zoggy, 23 'ard boyz and Mad Dok teleport across the map. After scatter, I have a bubble of orky goodness that is absolutley itching to sink its klaws into a land raider. I state that I am now going to run the unit. I moved the closest model as far as it could run (5" maybe? can't remember). I then moved the other models 5" towards the land raider but dispersing them slightly so they would not be as vulnerable to blast templates. Being as the shortest distance between two objects is a straight line, one could argue that the blob of orks needed to stay exactly in that blob as they moved towards the LR. My opponent did not object to my movement as I was still making the unti move towards the LR.

Thoughts?
Was I:
a. Legal. I moved the closest model as fast as possible towards the LR.
b. Illegal. You need to keep them in a bubble.

P.S. Please note in the unofficial INAT or whatever it is called, Grotsnik's is free to run or shoot and the movement rule only applies during the movement phase. One could argue that gives you some leeway in running.

Kommissar Kel wrote:grotsnik's special rage is different from regular rage: His bloodlust states that he must move towards the nearest enemy unit, and also states that the Bloodlust is granted to any unit he joins; this means that every model in the unit(since they all now have the One scalpel short rule) must individually move as close to the enemy unit as possible. This also means Ol' Zoggy cannot leave should he join.

The rule does not force every model to move closer.

Green is Best!, if the closest model to the target unit moves directly towards the target as far as it can, the unit has moved directly towards the target as much as it can. The rest of the models are free to do what they will.

Except Grotsnik. Unless he IS the closest.

That is pretty much what I did. All of the models moved in the general direction of the closest enemy unit. THE closest model I moved in a straight line. The rest fanned out is all. I felt it kept in the spirit of the rule and so did my opponent. Now, if I had tried moving half the unit in the opposite direction, I could understand someone complaining.

I was just more concerned about "that guy" who says I have to keep them balled up and move them as a group.

kirsanth wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:grotsnik's special rage is different from regular rage: His bloodlust states that he must move towards the nearest enemy unit, and also states that the Bloodlust is granted to any unit he joins; this means that every model in the unit(since they all now have the One scalpel short rule) must individually move as close to the enemy unit as possible. This also means Ol' Zoggy cannot leave should he join.

The rule does not force every model to move closer.

Green is Best!, if the closest model to the target unit moves directly towards the target as far as it can, the unit has moved directly towards the target as much as it can. The rest of the models are free to do what they will.

Except Grotsnik. Unless he IS the closest.

look at the rule again; it is not Rage; Rage is that the Unit must move closer(1 model moving closer = the unit moved closer); one Scapel short is that the model with "one scalpel short" must move closer, and the the whole unit gets "One scalpel short"

Rage does indeed work in the manner you describe, OSS does not.

Kommissar Kel wrote:look at the rule again;

Grotsnik must move closer as must his unit. The unit also has a rule saying Grotsnik must move closer as must the unit.

kirsanth wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:look at the rule again;

Grotsnik must move closer as must his unit. The unit also has a rule saying Grotsnik must move closer as must the unit.

by that reading the unit doesn't have to move closer at all, only grotsnik(although the unit must remain in coherency).

You cannot apply rage to them since the rule does not confer rage; If it is grotsnik only, then it is grotsnik only. You seem to want to say 1 member of the unit+grotsnik, that is wrong; it is either just grotsnik, or it is every model in the unit.