Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yea I know what you mean. I am sort of lucky, playing extremely few games, so I can dream up cool models and have fun putting stuff together without worrying about whether or not it works on the table. Or works to transport from the model table to the gaming table

I am kind of hoping that they tweak dragons a little in the newer books to make them worth taking, but I suspect that since I haven't heard of Wyverns in the O&G book lighting the world on fire, my guess is the monstrous mounts just are not durable enough to constitute their points :(

'tis an age of Guns and machines I tell ya, it's gettin hard for swords and sorcery lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a touched up 2,500

L: Chaos Sorcerer Lord - Level 4, MoN, Chaos Steed, Conjoined Homunculus, Talisman of Endurance, Spell Familiar - 379pts
H: Exalted Hero - MoN, BSB, Sword of Swift Slaying, Collar of Khorne, Shield, Bloodcurdling Roar - 230pts

C: 24x Chaos Warriors - MoN, Shields, Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame - 454pts
C: 24x Chaos Warriors - MoN, Shields, Full Command, Banner of Rage - 479pts

S: 17x Chosen - MoN, Shields, Halberds, Musician, Standard Bearer, Wailing Banner - 434pts
S: 10x Chaos Knights - MoN, Full Command, Blasted Standard - 520pts

Total: 2496pts

Wehrkind wrote:You also must remember that this is Fantasy, not 40k; that ward save is used in addition to your armor, not instead of it. So you get your 2+ armor roll, then you get a 6+ ward roll.

So again, a +1 ward is used against EVERYTHING that wounds the knights in addition to their armor.

you miss understood my post, i meant that you will only use the ward if you fail your AS meaning 16% of the time(depending on str of the shot)

brother heinrich wrote:
I'll do my best! I really want to work in a Sorcerer Lord on a Chaos Dragon just so I can make an awesome plague dragon!

nice! dragons aren't as effective anymore but they are really fun to use though

thanks! I've already got a good idea for the base model I'm gonna use. next paycheck....

on another note, how is my core looking at the higher point levels? is two blocks of 24 nurgle warriors enough? or should I add a third? and are chosen worth running if they're not backed up by shrine spam?

you dont really need the shrine spam but you do need a shrine to maximize thier potential because you will only get the effect at the start of the game and if you dont roll well enough you could end up with magic resistance(3) or something else that isn't as useful as the other, the shrine is thier to give them the extra EotG ability which can be changed every shooting phase if you dont like it.

what do you mean by higher points lvl?

at 3k++ i would take another unit of warriors or a few small units of marauder horsemen to protect flanks

bob501 wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:You also must remember that this is Fantasy, not 40k; that ward save is used in addition to your armor, not instead of it. So you get your 2+ armor roll, then you get a 6+ ward roll.

So again, a +1 ward is used against EVERYTHING that wounds the knights in addition to their armor.

you miss understood my post, i meant that you will only use the ward if you fail your AS meaning 16% of the time(depending on str of the shot)

It doesn't matter how many times you get hit, how many get past your toughness, how many get past your armor, or how many get past your ward. The only relevant measure is how many wounds you end up taking after all is said and done. You don't get bonus points for making your opponent miss more often other than by avoiding the unsaved wounds those shots would cause. If you avoid the unsaved wounds another way it is a wash.

If your post was really about "Well, you don't use the ward much because the knights have a good armor save, so you will use the -1 to BS more" you are entirely missing that point. If your post was about your earlier post stating the danger to knights is a large volume of small arms fire that will overwhelm their AS by virtue of the eventual 1's to save, and a -1 BS helps that more, you are still wrong, as unless that -1BS makes the shots impossible 16% fewer shots hitting is the equivalent of 16% fewer wounds getting through your saves.

Once more: It doesn't matter how many times a unit is hit or wounded, it only matters how many wounds are unsaved. Whether they are unsaved due to armor or ward failure is irrelevant. You don't get bonuses or penalties for having 10,000 imaginary arrows sticking in your chaos armor. It is only the imaginary arrows that get through the chinks that matter.

well argument aside, here's the list I've got for 3,000. it's not meant to be turbo competitive, its more of a list framed around the army feel.

L: Sorcerer Lord(General) - MoN, Level 4, Talisman of Endurance, Chaos Dragon, Diablolic Splendor, Charmed Shield, Biting Blade - 725pts

H: Exalted Hero - MoN, BSB, Sword of Swift Slaying, Enchanted Shield, Necrotic Phylactery, Favor of the Gods - 210pts

C: 24x Chaos Warriors - MoN, Shields, Full Command - 444pts
C: 24x Chaos Warriors - MoN, Shields, Full Command - 444pts

S: 17x Chosen - MoN, Shields, Halberds, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame - 394pts
S: 10x Chaos Knights - MoN, Full Command, Blasted Standard - 520pts

R: Chaos Warshrine - 130pts
R: Chaos Warshrine - 130pts

Total: 2997pts

That's a really cool list actually. Super elite, like the inner circle of a Chaos Lord's retinue.

About the only thing I might change is putting Favor of the Gods on the Chosen Champ (if you take one instead of the knight champ) for the reroll on the Chosen tricks, and putting the Dragonhelm and a regular shield on the BSB instead of Enchanted shield. Same total points costs and AS, but you geta 2+ ward vs fire which is handy vs flaming troops and the occasional burny spell or cannon.

Really neat list though... I want to play games against it and model it myself, actually. Should be really awesome on the table, if not in the victory charts

Wehrkind wrote:That's a really cool list actually. Super elite, like the inner circle of a Chaos Lord's retinue.

About the only thing I might change is putting Favor of the Gods on the Chosen Champ (if you take one instead of the knight champ) for the reroll on the Chosen tricks, and putting the Dragonhelm and a regular shield on the BSB instead of Enchanted shield. Same total points costs and AS, but you geta 2+ ward vs fire which is handy vs flaming troops and the occasional burny spell or cannon.

Really neat list though... I want to play games against it and model it myself, actually. Should be really awesome on the table, if not in the victory charts

Thanks brother! I like the changeup in gear you suggested, has a little bit more feng shui to it! and yeah I can't wait to model it all, I'll be starting up a showcase thread if not a whole WIP for this army, so keep your eyes peeled!

Excellent

I gotta say too, that Dragon Hat is probably the best item point per point for WoC, and probably any other army where your character has access to good mundane armor. Salvage's LT General on Bonebreaker with the 2+ ward vs. fire (can't recall if it is from the hat or the gem) is a real bear. Tough enough as is, then he zips him off into your troops with flaming banner etc. and just laughs with 4+/2+ saves keeping him safe and your unit that should be killing things tied up forever :(

Wehrkind wrote:Excellent
I gotta say too, that Dragon Hat is probably the best item point per point for WoC, and probably any other army where your character has access to good mundane armor. Salvage's LT General on Bonebreaker with the 2+ ward vs. fire (can't recall if it is from the hat or the gem) is a real bear. Tough enough as is, then he zips him off into your troops with flaming banner etc. and just laughs with 4+/2+ saves keeping him safe and your unit that should be killing things tied up forever :(

should i take the helm on the Exalted or sorcerer lord? with the dragon he'll have a lot of mobility and i can target out units with flaming attacks and force them to fight on my terms.

Well, that's a good question. I would say the BSB, mostly because the dragon doesn't get the benefit of the gem, so theoretically your opponent will just direct attacks at the wyrm and hope to win through static res and wounds that way. Plus the charmed shield will help vs the inevitable cannons that are going to come his way.
However, I kind of like full blown wards on BSBs since they are such a target. If you could move points around to give him a 4+ or 5+ ward it might not be a bad idea. Of course if that leaves your Big Expensive Sorc Lord flapping without protection he might just get smacked down to kill the magic threat.

I suppose if any army can withstand their BSB getting mulched it is probably this one, what with Panic rerolls and high Ld to begin with, so probably the dragon hat on the BSB and the ward on the Sorc is a good way to go. I would look to Salvage for better advice though; I am a rules monkey without a lot of table psych experience.

Wehrkind wrote:Well, that's a good question. I would say the BSB, mostly because the dragon doesn't get the benefit of the gem, so theoretically your opponent will just direct attacks at the wyrm and hope to win through static res and wounds that way. Plus the charmed shield will help vs the inevitable cannons that are going to come his way.
However, I kind of like full blown wards on BSBs since they are such a target. If you could move points around to give him a 4+ or 5+ ward it might not be a bad idea. Of course if that leaves your Big Expensive Sorc Lord flapping without protection he might just get smacked down to kill the magic threat.

I suppose if any army can withstand their BSB getting mulched it is probably this one, what with Panic rerolls and high Ld to begin with, so probably the dragon hat on the BSB and the ward on the Sorc is a good way to go. I would look to Salvage for better advice though; I am a rules monkey without a lot of table psych experience.

thanks! I'll keep it in mind! ...now sound the horn of Salvage and call forth the lord of lists!!!!!