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The M statistic? How would you go about this? Codices would have to be updated, because of this, how would other units move while they are being updated? Follow the rulebook? This could hamper several armies signifiacantly prior to them getting an update. In addition, you must understand that a few armies will not get updates for two years, that is two years without an update for your Codex to accomodate the current ruleset. It COULD work, but I'd rather have streamlined movement and running, just seems simpler...

Footsloggin wrote:The M statistic? How would you go about this? FCodices would have to be updated, because of this, how would other units move while they are being updated? Follow the rulebook? This could hamper several armies signifiacantly prior to them getting an update. In addition, you must understand that a few armies will not get updates for two years, that is two years without an update for your Codex to accomodate the current ruleset. It COULD work, but I'd rather have streamlined movement and running, just seems simpler...

I wasn't suggesting GW do it - they're not gonna, even if I wanted them to. If he and his group wanted to change it so for his group, and can find a way to balance it, all the power to him.

EDIT: I used the wrong "to".

I like. Keep running as a d6 or double the M stat?

Bromsy wrote:I like. Keep running as a d6 or double the M stat?

Um...If you want to base the game less on luck, I like doubling it, which means I like doubling it. I can totally get behind if someone wants to keep the dice, though.

You could even get beyond 6" for basic infantry and 12" for Jump, and such. Again, balancing becomes and issue and points adjustment may be needed.

Also, GW is never going to do this. This would be strictly home brew for the OP.

Ailaros wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:Is GW just to lazy to change something major and/or add another space on the stat bar?

No, it's that GW USED to have everything be utterly different between everything else.

Things were so bloated, convoluted, and confusing, that it used to take you an entire afternoon and part of an evening to play a game of 40k.

The slow march of rules streamlining is a godsend. Gone are the days when you needed to keep cards or a notepad just to know what your troops were doing.

Whether or not you think 40k is becoming more boring, it is undoubtedly becoming, on the whole, a better game.

Agreed, plus there are ways that GW has compensated for it (eg, yes Termies are moving as fast as everyone else but they can't sweeping advance, move through cover, fleet, etc).

The only thing that varied movement for almost every unit would do is require me to do more reading. And as an ork player, I generally just smash things.

What is it with people and wanting to make this game more complicated? 40k is fine the way it is. If you want to go back to the 'good old days' then play 2nd edition or RT. As has been stated already, those rules systems still exist.

L. Wrex

It would just mean more whining, people will start complaining that their terminators can only move 5 inch while blood angels terminators can move 6, or something. I like how it is now.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Ailaros wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:Is GW just to lazy to change something major and/or add another space on the stat bar?

No, it's that GW USED to have everything be utterly different between everything else.

Things were so bloated, convoluted, and confusing, that it used to take you an entire afternoon and part of an evening to play a game of 40k.

The slow march of rules streamlining is a godsend. Gone are the days when you needed to keep cards or a notepad just to know what your troops were doing.

Whether or not you think 40k is becoming more boring, it is undoubtedly becoming, on the whole, a better game.

Agreed, plus there are ways that GW has compensated for it (eg, yes Termies are moving as fast as everyone else but they can't sweeping advance, move through cover, fleet, etc).

Ah, the days when 500pt games used to take over 3 hours...
Yeah, i don't miss that at all.

It wouldn't be hard adding variable movement back to 40k, still kept simple, and wouldn't require codex rewrites. Simply add an extra unit type or two to infantry based on armour saves.

Heavy Infantry - Infantry with a 2+ armour save.
Infantry - Infantry with a 3+ - 4+ armour save.
Light Infantry - Infantry with a 5+ - 6+ armour save.

Heavy Infantry move 4" per turn. Infantry move 5" per turn. Light Infantry move 6" per turn.

Allow other rules to still affect this, like the obligatory 'Space marines in power armour count as light infantry for movement' that will end up being included, or Scouts adding an extra 1" of movement due to being faster, and Stealth subtracting 1" of movement due to trying to remain hidden.

Also allow wargear to have effects, like Artificer armour not making the unit count as heavy infantry.

I still, however, don't think it's needed. 40k plays fine with standardised movement.

Actually, it would be hard to implement, because you would have to do all the codexes at the same time, you'll have to rebalanced all the units (including costs), change several movement rules, give something to balance slower armies, and that point it would have been easier to just play Fantasy.

Besides, with a game with easy access the vehicles, any movement change would superficial at best.

While points costs would be an issue, that is something that can be done via FAQ until a new codex is released.

I'm pretty happy with the unified movement thing, there doesn't really need to be a specific value for every unit, the system of types seems to be working well (e.g. infantry, beast, jetbike etc etc). I can't see it really affecting the game too much. Currently eldar sit around at the back of the table shooting, so increasing thier movement doesn't really help. Marines advance inexorably forwards, shooting, so changing thier movement doesn't really help. Orks run as fast as they can towards the enemy, but aren't particularly agile so thier movement will remain the same and thus not change anything.

If a unit really needs slowing down/speeding up you have fleet, SnP etc etc to modify the stat without having to come up with a value for every unit in the codex.

And 2nd edition was convoluted, overwatch (essentially I get to shoot in your movement phase, IIRC), different armour getting different numbers of dice to roll, hallucinogen grenades that remained in play and had to move in a random direction every turn, causing effects on a 2d6 table (and only affected units in 'unsealed' armour, info for such units provided by a separate list).

The addition of a minor complexity such as variable movement adds little to the game, while increasing the time to play significantly (imagine they make orks movement 4, it takes me long enough in my movement phase that my opponents usually go get a beverage as it is!).

If you want complexity, play at smaller sized games (e.g. Inquisitor, necromunda etc) where that extra inch or inch less will actually matter.

I have trouble understanding the common perception that GW can't write all the codexes at once, and that it needs to take 3+ years for some reason. They have a ton of staff, why don't they just release the codexes simultaneously with a new edition instead of this ridiculous rolling schedule they use now? Or maybe try releasing updates instead of having to rewrite and reflavor everything?
The fact that some people are forced to use a codex from a previous edition because one of the biggest tabletop game companies in the world couldn't get around to updating it is laughable.
I guess it would sell less models

It's not that hard to remember varied movement, as long as Like Moves as Like; All Humans move 4, all Ellves move 5, stuff like that.


Having said that, NO, I do not want Varied movement in 40K. With the exception of the powercreep and all the stuff that is going on in the Fluff Department (1, the Blood angels and Necrons have parties, and 2, a Grey Knight can apparantly whoop up on a Daemon Primarch ), most of the game is fine and uncomplex, that's the way I like it.

bosky wrote:I have trouble understanding the common perception that GW can't write all the codexes at once, and that it needs to take 3+ years for some reason. They have a ton of staff, why don't they just release the codexes simultaneously with a new edition instead of this ridiculous rolling schedule they use now? Or maybe try releasing updates instead of having to rewrite and reflavor everything?
The fact that some people are forced to use a codex from a previous edition because one of the biggest tabletop game companies in the world couldn't get around to updating it is laughable.
I guess it would sell less models

It's a calculated and sensible marketing decision, by releasing codeci in the current format they can guarantee many more sales over many more months thanks to bandwagoning.

Essentially, if you release all the codeci at once, then on average most customers will buy a rulebook, a single army and the accompanying codex. However, if you release a codex, wait a few months then release another one, the bandwagon effect will kick in and people will also want the new dex, because it is new and shiny and they are kind of bored with the old one.

What this means, in reality, from a financial perspective, is that you have a steady stream of profits coming in over the entire edition's lifespan, rather than a shedload of moolah for the first few months, and then by the time of the new edition you're rummaging under your desk for pennies.

TheRedArmy wrote:

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:There are things that make things faster than others.

Fleet
Move Through Cover
Infiltrate
Scout
Hit & Run
Turbo-Boost

Outflanking in general.

Beats and Cavalry assault 12'.

Is there really no varied movement in 40k?

I believe what he means is base movement. The agile, sleek Eldar and DE jog no faster than Guardsmen or even heavily-armored terminators. Yeah, they have fleet, but that's not useful unless I intend to assault. As for MTC, it only gives you another die when rolling how far you move, and thus the variance is random, but the potential minimum and maximum is the save for everyone. Infiltrate, in and of itself, has nothing to do with movement, though the rest do.

However, fluff-wise, it is hard to argue with the OP's point. Gamewise, though, it is harder to modify from current perspective while retaining balance. Assault units and skirmishers (of a sort) could be slightly faster than others of their race, while units like Heavy Weapons Teams, Devastators, and Obliterators (who already have S&P to represent this) move slower since they handle the big stuff.

Transports has faster speeds than LRBTs, or maybe it's based off of the unit's armor.

I think with quite of a bit of work, you can make it work. It'll be tough to maintain balance, though.

I am aware of what he is talking about. What I'm saying is that varied movement is represented by special rules. And game rules are already there to dictate movement. A heavy weapon squad in the game DOES move just as fast as everything else, but you usually don't move them, as doing so voids their ability to shoot. Normally, a Space Marine toting a missile launcher wouldn't want to move much anyway. Many assaulty units have fleet now, and if they don't, you are ALWAYS moving them. Why? Because that's what you want to be doing.

I really think this rules complaint is pointless, as the game is already fine and dandy without it. It's like complaining about Rapid Fire.