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Grakmar wrote:

Crom wrote:are you sure it is the vehicle firing and not the troops in transport? Open topped vehicles all models can fire out of, and I don't see anything in the rules stating that troops cannot fire out while moving flat out. I was just trying to figure that out myself the other day. if there is a rule, could someone point me to the page?

Ask, and ye shall receive:

Page 66 BGB, last paragraph under "Fire Points":
"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn."

That doesn't specifically prohibit firing if the vehicle moved Flat Out, but logically if they can't fire due to moving Cruising, they can't fire for moving faster than that.

However, fast vehicles can move faster speeds and still fire weapons. Also, open topped transports like Ork Trukks and the Dark Eldar thingy, are fast and open topped vehicles. At combat speed they can fire all weapons and at cruising speed they can fire 1 and at flat out they can fire 0. This leads me to believe there may be some more clarification needed.

Thanks for your input though and I think you are probably right. It is just poorly worded in the rule book.

Crom wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

Crom wrote:are you sure it is the vehicle firing and not the troops in transport? Open topped vehicles all models can fire out of, and I don't see anything in the rules stating that troops cannot fire out while moving flat out. I was just trying to figure that out myself the other day. if there is a rule, could someone point me to the page?

Ask, and ye shall receive:

Page 66 BGB, last paragraph under "Fire Points":
"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn."

That doesn't specifically prohibit firing if the vehicle moved Flat Out, but logically if they can't fire due to moving Cruising, they can't fire for moving faster than that.

However, fast vehicles can move faster speeds and still fire weapons. Also, open topped transports like Ork Trukks and the Dark Eldar thingy, are fast and open topped vehicles. At combat speed they can fire all weapons and at cruising speed they can fire 1 and at flat out they can fire 0. This leads me to believe there may be some more clarification needed.

Thanks for your input though and I think you are probably right. It is just poorly worded in the rule book.

Being fast changes the permissions for the vehicle firing, however, there is nothing that changes passenger shooting. You're still restricted to moving below Cruising speed to allow passengers to fire.

Open topped changes the number of passengers allowed to fire. However, it does nothing to change the restrictions on vehicle movement.


Edit: I agree about the poor wording in the rulebook. It'd be nice if GW worked on their editing a bit more before publishing, and if they threw in little reminders into the "add-on" rules like fast, open-topped, etc. This issue comes up fairly frequently and causes plenty of confusion among players.

The moving flat out and embarking/disembarking is in the vehicle movement section, but not the fast vehicle section, so when you look up fast vehicle rules you don't see it. Since only fast vehicles can move flat out, one would logically think to look there for the rules on it. Got that rule wrong in the past.

Crom wrote:so when you look up fast vehicle rules you don't see it.

Issues like this are why people must read and reference the entire book of rules. People often miss relevent information because it is under the "wrong" heading.

kirsanth wrote:

Crom wrote:so when you look up fast vehicle rules you don't see it.

Issues like this are why people must read and reference the entire book of rules. People often miss relevent information because it is under the "wrong" heading.

While true, no one wants to waste time looking up and discussing rules while in the middle of a game. Also, GW could easily be more intuitive with their books. Better quick references, and better logical lay out of rules, and better editing in general. As a company that has been in business as long as they have doing what they do, you would think they would actually become more efficient and make a better product. In many ways, they are the Microsoft of table top war gaming.