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I have watched two seperate battle reports today and both seem to taking advantage of moving flat out and shooting in the same round.
I don't own a dark eldar codex nor do I know what a stormraven is capable of . Can anyone tell me if these guys are cheesin it up?

the stormraven can shoot 1 gun if it moves flat out because it has PotMS.


the Voidraven fighter can drop its Void Mine if it moves flat out because it is given permission to do so. it is a one shot weapon so it isn't a huge deal.

This is possible with Stormravens because of Power of The Machine Spirit. I don't know how Dark Eldar manage it.

Maureth wrote:This is possible with Stormravens because of Power of The Machine Spirit. I don't know how Dark Eldar manage it.

the Void mine can be dropped while moving flat out, it specifically allows it.

Am sure this has been covered but, why is Power of the Machine Spirit not allowed if you pop smoke but it is allowed if you move flat out?

because GW took the logical route and said you can't fire through blinding clouds of smoke, but you can fire a gun(with the aid of a super computer) while flying along at blinding speed.

General_Chaos wrote:Am sure this has been covered but, why is Power of the Machine Spirit not allowed if you pop smoke but it is allowed if you move flat out?

Because the FAQ says so.

I understand ones been FAQ'd but personally I don't think it needed it because it said that if you pop smoke you could not shoot. Moving flat out says you may not fire any weapons. Wouldn't that fall in the same boat? Every single instance doesn't need to be FAQ'd IMO

thats true and i have always played it that way.


of course it was needed as we now have a fast skimmer with PotMS. tbhe FAQ just filled in the hole that was opened by the Stormraven.

General_Chaos wrote:I understand ones been FAQ'd but personally I don't think it needed it because it said that if you pop smoke you could not shoot. Moving flat out says you may not fire any weapons. Wouldn't that fall in the same boat? Every single instance doesn't need to be FAQ'd IMO

That is precisely why it did need to be FAQ'd; different(albeit fairly synonymous) wordings in disallowed firing equates to Different outcomes.

May not shoot is not the same as may fire no weapons, even though the end result is generally the same: no weapons fired.

With Power of the Machine spirit you can fire 1 more weapon than normal. When it cannot shoot, no weapons may be fired not even the POTMS because the whole status is cannot shoot. When it is permitted to fire no weapons POTMS steps in and allows 1 weapon to be fired because 0+1=1

you are looking at the end result for a vehicle without POTMS and seeing disallowed shooting in both cases and assuming that equates to a vehicle with POTMS; but the different wording that disallows shooting in both cases for a normal vehicle has different results on a POTMS vehicle. Note that the wording for Flat out firing is more similar to a non-fast vehicle moving at cruising speed; and Land raiders were already established as allowed to POTMS 1 gun when moving at cruising so it would be illogical for the Storm raven to not fire 1 gun while moving Flat-out.

Ork Deffkoptas can move flat out and drop a Big bomm.
Also wazdakka can move flat out/turbo boost and Shoot all his weapons.
It can be done but there are very few who can.

Wazdakka and deffkoptas don't move Flat Out.

Neither of them are vehicles.

They can shoot a specific weapon (not all their weapons in Wazdakka's case, just the Dakkacannon) while turbo-boosting (bike/jebike rules).

Wazzdakka can fire any of his weapons(not just the Dakkacannon) when turbo-boosting; it is part of the bike of the Aporcalypse rule, not the dakkacannon rule and even specifically uses the plural of "weapons". So he can turbo-boost and fire any one of the following: T-L Dakka guns, Dakkacannon, Kustom Mega blasta, or Slugga.

Yup, looks like you're right on Wazdakka's weapons. I was working from memory on that

Thanks for the clarification

AFAIK no vehicle can fire on the flat out, as the flat out expressly forbids shooting any weapons. I'd say that POTMS wouldn't apply, but I can see how you could argue it the other way. It's not really come up until they came up with the bright *cough* idea of giving marines a flying fast landraider

Ascalam wrote:Yup, looks like you're right on Wazdakka's weapons. I was working from memory on that

Thanks for the clarification

AFAIK no vehicle can fire on the flat out, as the flat out expressly forbids shooting any weapons. I'd say that POTMS wouldn't apply, but I can see how you could argue it the other way. It's not really come up until they came up with the bright *cough* idea of giving marines a flying fast landraider

Here's how I argue it. GW BA FAQ:

Q: Can a Stormraven Gunship that has moved flat out still
use its Power of the Machine Spirit to fire one gun? (p38)
A: Yes.

don_mondo wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Yup, looks like you're right on Wazdakka's weapons. I was working from memory on that

Thanks for the clarification

AFAIK no vehicle can fire on the flat out, as the flat out expressly forbids shooting any weapons. I'd say that POTMS wouldn't apply, but I can see how you could argue it the other way. It's not really come up until they came up with the bright *cough* idea of giving marines a flying fast landraider

Here's how I argue it. GW BA FAQ:

Q: Can a Stormraven Gunship that has moved flat out still
use its Power of the Machine Spirit to fire one gun? (p38)
A: Yes.

Well it's important to remember that we ARE talking about Space Marines. It makes sense that they're the only race that can consistently (DE gets 1 Void Mine) fire while flat-outing.

I was under the impression that my ork trukk could move flat out and fire its one defensive weapon because it was designated as "fast" in its description.

Grey Templar wrote:the stormraven can shoot 1 gun if it moves flat out because it has PotMS.


the Voidraven fighter can drop its Void Mine if it moves flat out because it is given permission to do so. it is a one shot weapon so it isn't a huge deal.

The Power Of The Machine spirit allows you to fore one more weapon than usual, and at a different target. The storm raven and land raiders have this special rule, not sure about anything else


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gpfunk wrote:I was under the impression that my ork trukk could move flat out and fire its one defensive weapon because it was designated as "fast" in its description.

Even if it is fast, the only defensive weapons are weapons under strength three, and the big shoota is STRENGTH FIVE!!!


Sorry just feeling moody today, and dice were:
etc.

P.s is the trukk fast?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

General_Chaos wrote:I understand ones been FAQ'd but personally I don't think it needed it because it said that if you pop smoke you could not shoot. Moving flat out says you may not fire any weapons. Wouldn't that fall in the same boat? Every single instance doesn't need to be FAQ'd IMO

It also says that in games the codex takes precedence



Automatically Appended Next Post:

jordan23ryan wrote:Ork Deffkoptas can move flat out and drop a Big bomm.
Also wazdakka can move flat out/turbo boost and Shoot all his weapons.
It can be done but there are very few who can.

What is a big bomm?

elementbender wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

jordan23ryan wrote:Ork Deffkoptas can move flat out and drop a Big bomm.

What is a big bomm?

Knowing orks it's probably a huge bucket of an extremely unstable explosive. A big bomb...

Spetulhu wrote:

elementbender wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

jordan23ryan wrote:Ork Deffkoptas can move flat out and drop a Big bomm.

What is a big bomm?

Knowing orks it's probably a huge bucket of an extremely unstable explosive. A big bomb...

Page 48 ork book, It is a bomb they drop str 4 ap 5 large blast and you only roll d6 for scatter minus your bs so 4. You have to pay 25 per bomb and it is a one time use per model. Since they can turbo boost on their scout move they can be set up as Carpet Bombers !!! It really fun to do on a mass army ! Hope this helps unless you knew but you thought i did not know how to spell


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ascalam wrote:Wazdakka and deffkoptas don't move Flat Out.

Neither of them are vehicles.

They can shoot a specific weapon (not all their weapons in Wazdakka's case, just the Dakkacannon) while turbo-boosting (bike/jebike rules).

Yes i understand that is why i said Turbo boost too. I was just trying to say that models do move 24 and shoot.

Page 70 in BRB under Fast Firing Vehicles it says Fast vehicles moving flat out may not fire any weapons. If your Codex says other wise then it is ok. On top of that Vehicles that are not fast can not move Flat out ever ! This is on the same page.

gpfunk wrote:I was under the impression that my ork trukk could move flat out and fire its one defensive weapon because it was designated as "fast" in its description.

Nope, being a fast vehicle does not allow it to shoot if it moves flat out.

Oh, and defensive weapons are ST4 or less, not "under strength three" as previously posted.

being fast just allows the trukk to fire its one main gun, and all defensive weapons, if it moves between 6" and 12" and it can move up to 18" if it moves flat out, but no guns may fire.

being fast basically makes the vehicle count cruising speed as combat speed.

don_mondo wrote:Here's how I argue it. GW BA FAQ:

Q: Can a Stormraven Gunship that has moved flat out still
use its Power of the Machine Spirit to fire one gun? (p38)
A: Yes.

.
Ahh just realized that I was looking at an older FAQ, found the new one, nuff said

Back to the Ork trukk and "fast"; Only Fast vehicles can even move Flat-out; if the Trukk wasn't Fast it couldn't do it it(and as said it still cannot fire when moving Flat out).

No, ravagers may not fire any guns after they move more than 12 inches. It's Bull

To add, the only ork vehicle to ever fire a defensive weapon will be a battleweagon equipped with a kannon.

are you sure it is the vehicle firing and not the troops in transport? Open topped vehicles all models can fire out of, and I don't see anything in the rules stating that troops cannot fire out while moving flat out. I was just trying to figure that out myself the other day. if there is a rule, could someone point me to the page?

Crom wrote:are you sure it is the vehicle firing and not the troops in transport? Open topped vehicles all models can fire out of, and I don't see anything in the rules stating that troops cannot fire out while moving flat out. I was just trying to figure that out myself the other day. if there is a rule, could someone point me to the page?

Ask, and ye shall receive:

Page 66 BGB, last paragraph under "Fire Points":
"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn."

That doesn't specifically prohibit firing if the vehicle moved Flat Out, but logically if they can't fire due to moving Cruising, they can't fire for moving faster than that.

Grak; Are applying logic to GW rules again? Didn't we talk about this?

Flat out does specifically(by extension) prohibit units from Firing out; Page 70, moving fast vehicles: "This represents the fast vehicle moving at top speed without firing it's guns [i]and is treated in all respects exactly the same as moving at cruising speed for a vehicle that is not fast(except where noted otherwise)."

In addition, if you take the Fast description to be all there is you can never embark/disembark that Raider. Except by starting in it and getting it blown up. ;-)