Baron Sathonyx is worth taking simply for the +1 to go first in a kabal army. In my mind, he's literally an auto-include.
Oh I agree that pound for pound, he's the best force multiplier
HQ that the
DE have.
Pairing him with the beasts has the benefit of making them LD10, and generally turning their 4+ cover into 3+ cover. They're incredibly resistant to random fire with a combination of 3+ cover saves, 4+ invulnerable saves, and 5 wound models using 3+ cover to fend off casualties of anything STR5 or below. Opponents who *know* what kind of saves and statlines they have generally don't shoot them, yet every game I pray that my opponents *will* shoot them for one simple reason:
Virtually everything that can hurt a beast unit at range can hurt a venom or a raider worse. Opponents that are willing to drop firepower into a beast unit instead of directing it at vehicles are off to a bad start.
Possibly. But armies I've played as of late has the fire power to deal with all my units as they all have move and shoot weapons as well. I look at beasts as a heat seeking missile. Wait for a target and then pursue it until it's dead. Hopefully, the beasts can finish off it's intended target in two rounds of combat.
Units deploying into upper levels of ruins are *also* a blessing. Beasts serve as a great tie-up unit and a discouraging measure to keep things away from your softer targets - deployed trueborn for example.
Agreed, but I'm talking more about objective placement and how that limits their effectiveness vs. smart deployment strategies. Overall, they're still worth their cost, but they
do have limitations that players should be aware of.
Beasts with defensive grenades are even more discouraging of a target.
Agreed.
I don't see beasts as a dedicated assault unit that speeds across the board pell-mell to jump into combat - that's an unsupported assault unit in a kabal army, which is a mistake in any army.
Agreed. They need a partner. They pair with wyches pretty well.
They're a midfield unit for a kabal army - discouraging the enemy from coming near your glass cannon, and punishing them if they do.
True. However, they can also be used as an assassination unit as well. I.E. you send them after something to eliminated it or damage it enough to be combat ineffective.
I say that units deployed in upper levels of ruins are a blessing because:
1. They're either a dedicated fire support unit that can wreck havoc on your vehicles, in which case you should be shooting it off the board before the beasts could even get halfway across the board even if they *could* get up into the ruins...
That isn't always the case though. Orks for instance can still move and shoot with no loss of firepower and big shootas have plenty of range. Orks can easily spend a turn, maybe two to eliminate their threats before moving out. Craftworld Eldar can pull a similar maneuver.
2. They're not a dedicated fire support unit, in which case you can ignore them because you outrange them while dealing with more threatening parts of the enemy army. You don't have to kill something to neutralize it - a prevalent theme in Dark Eldar.
Agreed, but at the same time they are attempting to do the same to you. Many armies have the ability to win a war of attrition that
DE simply can't.
There are exceptions (like 10 marines with a missile launcher) that don't fit into either category, but the existence of these kind of massive point sinks for little utility against YOUR army should be a telling weakness for you to exploit.
Agreed. However, now more than ever are there units that lose no effectiveness in shooting when they move. Thus while
DE are faster, that doesn't necessarily mean they are always safer, or have a better position of strength. Durability does come into play.
And a final two points for you in particular:
1. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Or an Ork. Why only 3 venoms? Why not five? Or six? Or nine?
Currently I own only 3 Vypers that stand in as Venoms. I refuse to buy more when I know a Venom model is around the corner. I guess call it stubborn refusal to not wanting to proxy more than I need to. I don't want to more spend money on a model to "get me buy" until I have the real one. Thus I only will ever have 3 in any of my builds until a new model shows up. 3 has been working well. Vs. Hordes, I feel in need more shots. However, I'm not entirely convinced that Venoms will solve that problem..or be the only solution. I like options.
2. Against a horde army, distance and time are your friends. If you only have 3 venoms, I presume you have some raiders in there too?
Yup. Usually 2-3. Depending on the build.
Moving an empty raider (or two) flat out and plopping it/them down 1" away from the advancing horde stops their progress. Either they go sideways that turn or they stop to fight it - and it has 4+ cover and needs 6+ to be hit...and might even have a 5+ invulnerable save against close combat attacks. Dark Eldar mobility means that WE decide who goes where on the battlefield. Want to screw a battlewagon army? Flat out a raider and plop it sideways 1" away from the middle of the battlewagon wall. You dodge on a 3+. You have a 66% chance of stopping the advance for 60 points before we even get to whether they manage to explode you to keep going or not.
These are all tactics I've used in my games at one point or another. Much the the annoyance of some of my opponents
