Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It's not declaring a charge, just moving. I still say it moves into whatever arc it ends up at and contacts that unit and will fight in the following CC. No charge was declared so declare charge rules don't apply. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Orkimedes wrote:It's not declaring a charge, just moving. I still say it moves into whatever arc it ends up at and contacts that unit and will fight in the following CC. No charge was declared so declare charge rules don't apply. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Nope: page 56 of skaven army book states: if the abombs movement takes it into an enemy , the Abomb counts as charing.

How is counts as charging and declaring a charge the same thing? There is actually a declare charge phase, which the HPA takes absolutely no part in. In the compulsory move phase, the HPA randomly moves and if it contacts a unit, it counts as charging (gains impact hits). I don't see how those two are the same in any way...

page 74 of rule book actually. plain as day. even says: if the move is found to take the unit into contact with an enemy, then it counts as charging and thi is resolved using the normal rules for charges.

Again, "Counts as Charging" and "Declaring a Charge" are two completely different things.

If I count as charging with an HPA, the only thing I gain from that are impact hits.

Declaring a charge involves measurment, a declaration, and is a sub phase of the movement phase.

They are still two things.

The rule says if it contacts a unit it counts as charging. ie. i get impact hits. It doesn't say it counts as declaring a charge, they dont get a charge response, i don't wheel, i don't measure. the HPA just gains impact hits.

Two completely different rules here...

Way I have always played it is this.

Point and roll distance.

Check distance, does it bring it into contact with an enemy.

If it does check charge arc, bring it into correct arc as if it charged.

I've played it similar to that Shivan.

Rotate model and roll distance.

If roll is high enough to contact an enemy it counts as charging, to whatever side of the enemy unit it contacts.

Honestly, I can see it going either way. I'm going to make sure to ask TO how to play this.

I've run several tournaments, and If I were calling this ruling. I would say that it charges into whatever side it contacts.

My two coppers...

Orkimedes wrote:Again, "Counts as Charging" and "Declaring a Charge" are two completely different things.

If I count as charging with an HPA, the only thing I gain from that are impact hits.

Declaring a charge involves measurment, a declaration, and is a sub phase of the movement phase.

They are still two things.

The rule says if it contacts a unit it counts as charging. ie. i get impact hits. It doesn't say it counts as declaring a charge, they dont get a charge response, i don't wheel, i don't measure. the HPA just gains impact hits.

Two completely different rules here...

*sigh* the unit charged by the HPA does indead get to make a charge reaction..... the HPA does indeed get a wheel, you do indeed measure prior to moving the HPA, pages 57 of the skaven rule book, and 74 of the main rb.

Hawkins I think you and I are done talking. You clearly don't know the rules so I'll just let you read up on them and play it how you would play at your LGS. Thanks for all the input.

Hawkins wrote:

Orkimedes wrote:Again, "Counts as Charging" and "Declaring a Charge" are two completely different things.

If I count as charging with an HPA, the only thing I gain from that are impact hits.

Declaring a charge involves measurment, a declaration, and is a sub phase of the movement phase.

They are still two things.

The rule says if it contacts a unit it counts as charging. ie. i get impact hits. It doesn't say it counts as declaring a charge, they dont get a charge response, i don't wheel, i don't measure. the HPA just gains impact hits.

Two completely different rules here...

*sigh* the unit charged by the HPA does indead get to make a charge reaction..... the HPA does indeed get a wheel to 'close the door', you do indeed measure prior to moving the HPA, pages 57 of the skaven rule book, and 74 of the main rb.

Incorrect, you do not get charge reactions from compulsary movement charges.

Orkimedes wrote:Hawkins I think you and I are done talking. You clearly don't know the rules so I'll just let you read up on them and play it how you would play at your LGS. Thanks for all the input.

OMG!!! ok buddy what ever gets you thru the day LOL


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShivanAngel wrote:

Hawkins wrote:

Orkimedes wrote:Again, "Counts as Charging" and "Declaring a Charge" are two completely different things.

If I count as charging with an HPA, the only thing I gain from that are impact hits.

Declaring a charge involves measurment, a declaration, and is a sub phase of the movement phase.

They are still two things.

The rule says if it contacts a unit it counts as charging. ie. i get impact hits. It doesn't say it counts as declaring a charge, they dont get a charge response, i don't wheel, i don't measure. the HPA just gains impact hits.

Two completely different rules here...

*sigh* the unit charged by the HPA does indead get to make a charge reaction..... the HPA does indeed get a wheel to 'close the door', you do indeed measure prior to moving the HPA, pages 57 of the skaven rule book, and 74 of the main rb.

Incorrect, you do not get charge reactions from compulsary movement charges.

Shivan. actually yo,u do read the Skaven book. it states that the enemy does indeed get a charge reaction to the HPA

Shivan, I'll let you take over buddy!

Hawkins wrote:

Orkimedes wrote:Hawkins I think you and I are done talking. You clearly don't know the rules so I'll just let you read up on them and play it how you would play at your LGS. Thanks for all the input.

OMG!!! ok buddy what ever gets you thru the day LOL


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShivanAngel wrote:

Hawkins wrote:

Orkimedes wrote:Again, "Counts as Charging" and "Declaring a Charge" are two completely different things.

If I count as charging with an HPA, the only thing I gain from that are impact hits.

Declaring a charge involves measurment, a declaration, and is a sub phase of the movement phase.

They are still two things.

The rule says if it contacts a unit it counts as charging. ie. i get impact hits. It doesn't say it counts as declaring a charge, they dont get a charge response, i don't wheel, i don't measure. the HPA just gains impact hits.

Two completely different rules here...

*sigh* the unit charged by the HPA does indead get to make a charge reaction..... the HPA does indeed get a wheel to 'close the door', you do indeed measure prior to moving the HPA, pages 57 of the skaven rule book, and 74 of the main rb.

Incorrect, you do not get charge reactions from compulsary movement charges.

Shivan. actually yo,u do read the Skaven book. it states that the enemy does indeed get a charge reaction to the HPA

Actually in the FAQ it tells you to ignore that paragraph....

ACTUALLY

The FAQ tells you to ignore EVERYTHING except the berserk abomination chart, and to states the hell pit abomination has the random movement movement special rule with the following exceptions. If triple is rolled consult the berserk chart, then the rules for moving into a friendly unit.

Your entire argument is based on rules that are no longer valid.

Flawless Victory!

hehe it just bugs me when people use the "read the rules for it" argument, when they themselves havent read the correct rules.

Okay, okay, we've solved that A-bombs follow the rules for Random Movement (and via some means that were gettin' pretty close to hostile, chaps. C'mon. We're not actually villanous rat-people [well, not all of us]).

...so. Again, I offer up: Abominations skip the Declare Charges subphase. You see which arc you'll hit in this subphase. So these big guys don't do this. Right? Everyone seeing what I'm seeing?

The Random Movement rule states that these guys "resolve" charges as per the normal rules. Unfortunately, the term "resolve" isn't a heading or anything official. So I'm guessing it refers to the part that aren't the declaration/charge reaction parts, i.e.: measure distance and move chargers.

As for the 1" margin, I just read up on that, so I'm in the clear (you do indeed have to maintain that minimum distance at all times throughout the move, so be sure to run your units to his flanks parallel to him. Or, when you pick the direction, say "parallel to that unit" while you point).

Now, anyone want to confirm or deny any of this? And once again, let's keep the "well, I always play it like this" crap. Because, once again, that's beside the point. I'm concerned with Truth.

Warpsolution wrote:
As for the 1" margin, I just read up on that, so I'm in the clear (you do indeed have to maintain that minimum distance at all times throughout the move, so be sure to run your units to his flanks parallel to him. Or, when you pick the direction, say "parallel to that unit" while you point).

-I might argue that since the HPA can actually contact a friendly unit (not normally allowed) and cause impact hits, it effectively ignores the 1" rule.

-I guess in the end I'll just ask the TO how he wants to run it until we get a definitive answer from GW.

ShivanAngel wrote:hehe it just bugs me when people use the "read the rules for it" argument, when they themselves havent read the correct rules.

And your right and i apoligize, ive relooked thru the FAQ and found it. that still does not convice me that your allowed to end up in the flank when your in the enemies front arc, there isnt anything written to support that. but then again so much in the BRB is like that.

as for Flawless victory... Wow orky, i really cant find the words to express a response to that so i wont. instead..


Nuff said.

So...

You say there's nothing to support the idea of a flank charge. What about my evidence? Show me that it's incorrect. Or that it's not. Or let's just lock this thing and go home.