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Monster Rain wrote:
Considering that the NB is S10 with 5 attacks and ignores invulnerable saves I have to disagree. Daemons of any size won't keep him busy for long.

You're right, of course. Statistically, NB will beat a GD. I'm just thinking out loud. But a few waves of 6 lesser demons is enough to tie up NB for a darn good chunk of the battle, and tarpitting with fodder not only means your opponent has spent 400 points to fight bubble wrap, but thats time NB isn't pressing forward towards scoring units or tanks, etc.

NB isn't 400 points.

mulkers wrote:NB isn't 400 points.

360. Close enough. It's apoc level almost.

I just remembered something I've seen to be effective against necrons: chosen
Having squads of plasma gun chosen outflanking in rhinos dooms the necron player, literally.
In every game I've ever played my chosen outflank and plasma gun squads of destroyers to death, it's awesome.

Focus on destroyering warriors & destroyers. Then he phases out. with NB.

why... are we shooting at warriors? even IoCG CSM are way over qualified to smash through necron warriors in close combat (lets not even get into Zerkers)! If they lose combat by a lot, and their moral breaks due to large negative modifiers to their leadership, their low initiative makes them very vulnerable to being swept away.

Sweeping Advance removes you from the table, no WBB or nothing. They key, as always to beating necrons is to find your way into close combat.

The Night Bringer puts an interesting wrinkle in all of this, but ultimately he is less dynamic then the deciever. CSM have pretty solid shooting overall, Obliterators, Melta Guns, Predators, pepper him up with heavy support. I'd wager a squad or 2 of Zerkers can kill a wounded Nightbringer, The power fist hits at s9, and all the regular zerkers have s5 from furious charge (enough to put wounds on the bringer on 6s)

Heck, chosen can melta spam, sure it will be 4 melta shots=1 wound but where else would your melta go against a necron army.

Then tag on the rest of you las cannons and heavy fire and you've got a pretty solid chance of dragging him down.

After that just assault warriors with anything, win combat and watch them get swept.

I'm always more than happy to let people shoot my warriors. I've never been phased out from shooting. Assault is really the only way to phase out a smart necron player.

akaean - How do you get into combat with warriors?
You will have to wait for them to actually arrive on the table to start with, since any cron player wil reserve them.

after that you need to make a hole in 3 lith's to get to the warriors.

All this time your keeping away from a S10 monster wandering about.




Ksons - So why does AP3 not help?
Yes they still get WBB, but they will with anything against a decent crons player.
Its removing the save thats the point.
3+ before WBB gives you a very slim chance of actually killing one for good.

After a couple of games of lashing him about the place, look at your friend and go "you know, you could have 400 points more of warriors or destroyers etc, and we could play a game that isn't keep away."

You do need to be careful playing keep away though

He can fire back at you, and his shot is S9.
However, against a prince it does little.

against a sorc in a rhino it will pop it.

Jackal wrote:after that you need to make a hole in 3 lith's to get to the warriors.

All this time your keeping away from a S10 monster wandering about.

lol, seriously?

Just humor me for a moment. How much does a nightbringer, 3 monoliths, a res orb lord, and 2 min-sized warrior squads cost?

1,565 points Ailros.

Also, make a poll if you wish.
You will find that this is pretty much the solid base when playing castle crons.

I merely noted close combat, as a superior option to THOUSAND SONS. the sons aren't going to do anything to a C'tan, the toughness is too high. Their role- I assume is to shoot up the warriors and cause phase out. Or at least shoot up the destroyers. Whatever.

Anyway, if the c'tan is actually hanging out "guarding" a squad of warriors, I think you just got your answer right there. If you can charge the warriors with a sufficiently brutal unit, you can multi charge the night bringer too and combat res that C'Tan pretty hard. that can potentially be a lot of fearless saves on a 4+.

akaean - Granted the multi-assault is a very effective way of killing him, but its catching him in a multi assault that poses a problem.

Ill dig out some batreps from dakka and show you how everyone lays out a castle system.
Its pretty much impossible to get armour between the liths as it is, so you have to walk, while being shot at by everything they have.

Also, C'tan's are used usually in 2 ways.

1: They do tend to be sat back babysitting and waiting for assault units to get near.
However, they wont sit him next to the warriors.

2: Some people tend to run him up the field as a fire magnet.
Granted he does die before combat 50% or so of the time, but either way, it keeps fire away from the main part of the army.




also, everyones on about killing the warriors /issue.
Its never that easy.
Any player that has used crons for a few games will know to reserve them, so they will allways be off the table, or hidden behind a lith.
all they will then do is veil a unit onto an objective in the last round.

Jackal wrote:

Also, it's not like CSM have access to hidden power fists or anything. 2 berzerker squads with fists should clean the nightbringer's clock in a single charge. Even without this setup, he's still got to take a couple of turns of chopping before he can touch the fist.

Keep in mind that he can drop a large blast on himself in combat.
Which at S4 and no saves will do alot of damage.

The CC template only ignores ARMOR saves, any unit will still get an invul save is applicable against the gaze of death.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jackal wrote:akaean - How do you get into combat with warriors?
You will have to wait for them to actually arrive on the table to start with, since any cron player wil reserve them.

after that you need to make a hole in 3 lith's to get to the warriors.

All this time your keeping away from a S10 monster wandering about.




Ksons - So why does AP3 not help?
Yes they still get WBB, but they will with anything against a decent crons player.
Its removing the save thats the point.
3+ before WBB gives you a very slim chance of actually killing one for good.

Smart cron player will be cover as well so if the 3+ armor gets negated they'll still have 4+ cover. Can't forget that.

Jackal wrote:1,565 points Ailros. You will find that this is pretty much the solid base when playing castle crons.

Exactly, a BASE. This setup could only be possibly competitive if you're playing at least a 2000 point game. I'm pretty certain that a CSM player can figure out what to do if he has 2000 points to play around with.

Toy heavy lists suffer in 5th ed, and low-unit count armies have tended to suffer regardless of the rules edition.

Necron are no different.

Kevin: The example was against the zerkers mentioned earlier mate, but yes, ++ saves still apply.
And good call on the CS.



Ailros, any army can win when tailored against a specific one.
For crons, this is one of thier "all commers" builds.
So yes, if someone threw me 2k to play about with and told me i was playing against crons, i would build towards only them.

Ie: Lash prince x2, 9 oblits, Ksons.

Lash princes group up / move out of cover / push C'tans back.
Oblits go to town on the most viable target at the time.
Ksons start pouring fire into the warriors when they arrive and once a lith is gone or the unit is moved away from it.

Ailaros wrote:

Jackal wrote:1,565 points Ailros. You will find that this is pretty much the solid base when playing castle crons.

Exactly, a BASE. This setup could only be possibly competitive if you're playing at least a 2000 point game. I'm pretty certain that a CSM player can figure out what to do if he has 2000 points to play around with.

Toy heavy lists suffer in 5th ed, and low-unit count armies have tended to suffer regardless of the rules edition.

Necron are no different.

dude, I played a 4 player apoc game, 2000 points per person, I had 13 models total on the board. I didn't lose a single model nor did I suffer any damage results on my liths or any wounds on multi wound models. This was against CSM and SM with BT on my side.

Just so you know, I had 7 wraiths, Kitted out D. Lord, 3 liths, tomb stalker, night bringer. Yes, I ran the phalanx formation so that was a good chunk of points there too. I think I did fine. Keeping in mind that every model except the stalker had an invul save so that helped a bunch and the BT player running interference was awesome (He had a bane blade). I did take a lot of LC fire though. The phalanx actually worked great because I cut the board in half so all their lascannons firing at the BBlade and the BT guy were str 8 instead of 9. So that was nice.

Back on track, the thing to remember about the NB is that he is slow, but cannot be stalled by S3 units. He'll kick you out of melee combat unless the whole unit is S4, which is an ability that is unique so far as I remember, and can be performed at the START your combat phase (right after assault moves). So long as you stay away from him, or zip in to do your damage before he gets involved in the combat, he's not impossible to deal with.

If he's playing aggressive with his placement, deploy away and go around.

Kevin949 wrote:
dude, I played a 4 player apoc game, 2000 points per person, I had 13 models total on the board. I didn't lose a single model nor did I suffer any damage results on my liths or any wounds on multi wound models. This was against CSM and SM with BT on my side.

Just so you know, I had 7 wraiths, Kitted out D. Lord, 3 liths, tomb stalker, night bringer. Yes, I ran the phalanx formation so that was a good chunk of points there too. I think I did fine. Keeping in mind that every model except the stalker had an invul save so that helped a bunch and the BT player running interference was awesome (He had a bane blade). I did take a lot of LC fire though. The phalanx actually worked great because I cut the board in half so all their lascannons firing at the BBlade and the BT guy were str 8 instead of 9. So that was nice.

Interesting list... I bet I could make a baller 13 model list if the people I played with had no regard for the force organization chart restrictions...

Bertimismaximus wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:
dude, I played a 4 player apoc game, 2000 points per person, I had 13 models total on the board. I didn't lose a single model nor did I suffer any damage results on my liths or any wounds on multi wound models. This was against CSM and SM with BT on my side.

Just so you know, I had 7 wraiths, Kitted out D. Lord, 3 liths, tomb stalker, night bringer. Yes, I ran the phalanx formation so that was a good chunk of points there too. I think I did fine. Keeping in mind that every model except the stalker had an invul save so that helped a bunch and the BT player running interference was awesome (He had a bane blade). I did take a lot of LC fire though. The phalanx actually worked great because I cut the board in half so all their lascannons firing at the BBlade and the BT guy were str 8 instead of 9. So that was nice.

Interesting list... I bet I could make a baller 13 model list if the people I played with had no regard for the force organization chart restrictions...

Lots and Lots of Demon Princes with Lash of Submission and Vindicators.

Bertimismaximus wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:
dude, I played a 4 player apoc game, 2000 points per person, I had 13 models total on the board. I didn't lose a single model nor did I suffer any damage results on my liths or any wounds on multi wound models. This was against CSM and SM with BT on my side.

Just so you know, I had 7 wraiths, Kitted out D. Lord, 3 liths, tomb stalker, night bringer. Yes, I ran the phalanx formation so that was a good chunk of points there too. I think I did fine. Keeping in mind that every model except the stalker had an invul save so that helped a bunch and the BT player running interference was awesome (He had a bane blade). I did take a lot of LC fire though. The phalanx actually worked great because I cut the board in half so all their lascannons firing at the BBlade and the BT guy were str 8 instead of 9. So that was nice.

Interesting list... I bet I could make a baller 13 model list if the people I played with had no regard for the force organization chart restrictions...

Again, it was an APOCALYPSE game, there is no FOC in that. So, just play that game type and you can make your baller list.

Heh, Necrons Vs. CSM.

I run a death guard list, mostly foot slogging horde plague marines, a land raider and sometimes typhus.

I played my buddy who ran a necron list with a c'tan. After weathering all his shooting, I brought Typhus up to the C'tan and killed him because the Herald of Nurgle is faster than a stargod.

That poor Necron codex is so bad, one of our worst HQ choices beats the snot out of it.

At Adepticon I wiped out Typhus's squad and then shot him with the Nightbringer's Lightning Arc and ID'd him.

Swings and roundabouts, huh?

When are you going to post about your Adepticon battles?

Soon. School keeps me way too busy.

the_trooper wrote:Heh, Necrons Vs. CSM.

I run a death guard list, mostly foot slogging horde plague marines, a land raider and sometimes typhus.

I played my buddy who ran a necron list with a c'tan. After weathering all his shooting, I brought Typhus up to the C'tan and killed him because the Herald of Nurgle is faster than a stargod.

That poor Necron codex is so bad, one of our worst HQ choices beats the snot out of it.

I thought they had the same I?

The NB is I 4, I believe. C'tan are slow, having been written in the days when I 5 was damnfast.

Necrons vs CSM:

CSM:
Defiler x3
Anything else

Necrons:
Warriors, all that matters.

Plan:
3x Battlecannons shell the warriors from turn 1, warriors die and phase out the army. Chaos wins.

What if the Warriors are in reserve, like they should be?