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Kanluwen wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:Yeah, they really need to cover chaos better. The lost and the damned books rocked!

Seeing that Cultist,Traitors & LaTD are the enemies that the Imperium face most often (fluff wise),the fact that an "official" codex for these factions doesn't exist is,IMO, a bit silly.

Forge World is official.

But the biggest problem is simply that when you come down to it: Cultists, Traitors, and LaTD are basically the exact same thing as the Guard book.
A few unit names will be different here and there, maybe some different psyker abilities, etc--but there's really nothing stopping you fielding a Traitor Guard army using the Guard codex.

But since we're wishlisting:
I want Codex: Wardens of the Eye.

A real Cadian army, with three different sublists(at least!) in there.
1) Cadian Shock Troops--your 'basic' Cadian army, guns and guts styled.
2) Kasrkin Regiment--Self explanatory. The Kasrkin are a sorely neglected aspect of the Cadian lore, and even Stormtroopers don't stand up when trying to effectively represent them based on the lore.
3) Cadian Interior Guard--If you don't know who these guys are, well...they're Cadian Shock regiments with an Inquisitorial bend. They commonly fight alongside Arbites Kill Squads and are constantly rooting out heretics and traitors who've managed to get past the primary security of Cadia itself and the other worlds of the Cadian sector.

I think you and I have had this dance before..

Yes..FW is "official" and yes...one could use the existing Guard book to proxy a "counts as" army...agreed and agreed...but...
Wouldn't an "Official" GW Codex along with the possiable release of some new kits for Cultist/LaTD be a cool addition..??

I mean honestly,one could say that codex SW & BA aren't really needed since those armies could be built from Codex:SM with a bit of alteration...

I dunno about SW/BA being able to be built directly from Codex: SM with just some name swaps to the units, Fitzz.

Most of the differences between Traitor Guard and Loyalist Guard are aesthetic or come in the form of allies.

codex: an actual decent affordable army with good sculpted models and written by someone with talent.

long title I know, but desperately needed.

Kanluwen wrote:I dunno about SW/BA being able to be built directly from Codex: SM with just some name swaps to the units, Fitzz.

Most of the differences between Traitor Guard and Loyalist Guard are aesthetic or come in the form of allies.

Sorry,my "humor" (or at least my attempt at it) didn't translate very well...

SW and BA do have distictions from regular SM...and my point was that Traitor Guard should have distictions from loyalist guard,more so than simple aesthetics....if you follow.

Vaktathi wrote:Cadians are already what most of the IG book is based on (they are to the IG what the Black Legion is to the CSM's and the Ultramarines are to the Space Marines), and have been since at least 3E.

I'm aware. But it's wishlisting

Speaking as someone who owns probably ten boxes worth of Kasrkin, Kasrkin work just fine as Stormtroopers, that's what they were always designed, intended and envisioned as, simply Cadian produced Stormtroopers rather than Schola produced Stormtroopers.

When Kasrkin were first really explored there was also the ability to field them(in the Guard Codex directly following their introduction, that is) in the full on "Kasrkin Regiment" role where everyone had carapace armor, even the heavy weapons operators.

Just because one interprets a couple pages from Eisenhorn to mean they are something more doesn't mean they necessarily are, especially without any direct comparisons and in light of previous Codex fluff describing them as Stormtrooper equivalents.

I won't deny that they're equipped the same and can, in a pinch, fill the same role--but the closest real equivalent to the Kasrkin are the Death Korps Grenadiers.

Kasrkin are meant to be linebreakers and the lynchpin of a faltering line, not necessarily SpecOps Commandos.

That said, I'd love to see an army oriented around Kasrkin/Stormtroopers rather than having to use mine as Carapace Vets (and better ST rules to go along with that, not the overcosted gak we have now for them). I was hoping that Grey Knights would do that, being a successor to Codex: Daemonhunters, but alas, they didn't really.

*cough* Vote for Codex: Wardens of the Gate!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I dunno about SW/BA being able to be built directly from Codex: SM with just some name swaps to the units, Fitzz.

Most of the differences between Traitor Guard and Loyalist Guard are aesthetic or come in the form of allies.

Sorry,my "humor" (or at least my attempt at it) didn't translate very well...

SW and BA do have distictions from regular SM...and my point was that Traitor Guard should have distictions from loyalist guard,more so than simple aesthetics....if you follow.

But of course then it comes down to what the distinctions would end up being.

With Eye of Terror, it was simply "Guard--but with Marinez!"

The Renegade list from Vraks finessed the idea and it's really become the pinnacle.

And if anyone won't let you field the Renegade list, call them a jerk and move on.

What I'd like to see is published FW army list books for specific factions. Instead of having half a book of fluff, instead just the published data sheets bound outside of Imperial Armor as faction books. Sell them for $10 a piece and make a killing.

A few unit names will be different here and there, maybe some different psyker abilities, etc--but there's really nothing stopping you fielding a Traitor Guard army using the Guard codex.

If you feel that way then they should have put options for traitor guard in the guard book. Chaos humans do not need to be traitor guard, there are a a lot of cool things they could do. Allow them to take daemons and such. Chaos it really overlooked. There is no way to field a truly chaos army in 40k, all you have is daemons and one CSM codex.

I really think what they need to do is get rid of the current codex model and just do them online, they apparently don't make much money of the books anyway, this way the could do it with say a subscription basis and drive website up with it.

I'd like to see a United In War book which has Inquisition units and rules for allies/inductions for all factions, such as mercenary orks, kroot, renegade tau, mercenary humans (with options for chaos cults), etc.

I'd like to see a supplement that expands Orks, Eldar, Tau, Necrons, etc to show various options for their subfactions, such as Ork Klanz or Eldar Craftworlds.

I'd like to see Codex: Machine Cult, with its focus on heavy las weaponry (hellguns or autoshotguns being standard infantry weapons to them), cybernetic enhancements, and lots of freaky machines.

I'd like to see Codex: Lost and the Damned, with lots of mutants, psykers, corrupted guard as units, potentially alpha legion in it as elites (but not commanders... do not need another army led by marines). Could have some freaky units as heavies, such as spider walkers and so on.

And of course a Sisters of Battle codex focusing on Sisters of Battle as an Ecclesiarchy asset, but we're already getting that.

Kanluwen wrote:I dunno about SW/BA being able to be built directly from Codex: SM with just some name swaps to the units, Fitzz.

Most of the differences between Traitor Guard and Loyalist Guard are aesthetic or come in the form of allies.

I think you could compress all the SM codeci into 4 Codeci...
SW Codex
BT Codex
SM Codex (Vanilla)
Angels of Death Codex (BA and DA)
With the right rules in place you could do it easily...

Codex Borg

The Borg have been in the galaxy for only 30 years, but in that time they have devastated an entire subsector. Mistaken for servitors they rapidly assimilated an entire hive world then the rest of the Saitek star system, Imperial merchant ships still travel there unaware of the danger. On the Ork held world of Krowgus battle cries and explosions were as common as the chirping of birds on a garden planet, after the Borg came all that can be heard was silence occasionally broken by the sound of an energy discharge. The craftworld Aldyan, once home to hundreds of billions of eldar, has been converted into a mobile Unicomplex, a massive structure the size of a small moon that functions as a shipyard and command base.

Special Rules: Acute senses, Fearless, Counter Assault, Deepstrike

Adaptive Defenses: All Borg units at the beginning of the game start with a 6+ inv save. At the start of the borg player's turn roll a d6, on a 4+ the inv save decreases (6+ becomes a 5+, 5+ > 4+ > 3+ > 2+max inv), this effect is army-wide.

Teleportation Matrix: Any groups of Borg numbering 5 or more act like a teleport homer, they may place any deepstriking units within 6" of the selected Borg unit even if it is in close-combat.

Auto Repair Module: Should ANY Borg vehicles, walkers or structures become immobilized or suffer a weapon destroyed the Auto-repair Module will attempt to repair 1 affected system on a 4+ in the shooting phase, this stops the vehicle from shooting.


Ranged Weapons: Borg use energy weapons that incapacitate their enemies so they can be assimilated easier.


Range S AP Type
Wrist Pulse beam 12 4 - Pistol, Twin-linked
Pulse Beam 18 5 - Assault 2
Wide Pulse Beam Template 5 - Assault, Twin-linked
Long Range Pulse Beam 30 5 - Assault 3
Heavy Pulse beam 30 6 - Heavy 1, Blast
Portable Cutting Beam 24 7 2 Heavy 1, Lance
Pulse Beam Array 24 5 - Heavy 12
Cutting Beam 60 8 1 Heavy 1, Lance, Twin-linked
Pulse Beam Turret 18 5 - Assault 4

Close Combat Weapons:

Nano-Tube: A nano-tube is a built-in close combat weapon that can penetrate any armor and deliver a payload of nano probes to begin the assimilation process, +1 Str, poisioned (2), rending

Unit List:

HQ

Command Drones
Unit size 5 - 15 Infantry 16pts per model

W B S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 3 4 1 3 2 10 4+

Weapons: Wrist Pulse Beam, Nano-Tube

Ugrades: Any Command Drones may change weapons for the point cost
Pulse Beam - 5pts
Wide Pulse Beam - 5pts
Long Range Pulse Beam - 10pts
Heavy Pulse Beam - 12pts

Will of the Collective: for 1 turn a unit of Borg gain one of the following benefits; FNP, Fleet, Re-roll misses in shooting phase, Redeploy (unit is teleported out, even if in CC and placed in reserve)

Tactical Command Drones
Unit size 5 - 10 Infantry 20pts per model

W B S T W I A Ld Sv
5 5 4 5 2 4 3 10 3+

Weapons: Pulse Beam, Nano-Tube

Upgrades: Up to 5 Tactical Drones may change weapons for the point cost
Wide Pulse Beam - 5pts
Long Range Pulse Beam - 10pts
Heavy Pulse Beam - 12pts
Portable Cutting Beam - 20pts

Strength of the Collective: for 1 turn a unit of Borg gain one of the following benefits; Overdrive +1A, Furious Assault, Re-roll misses in close combat, Redeploy (unit is teleported out, even if in CC and placed in reserve)

Elites

Tactical Drones
Unit size 5 - 10 Infantry 18pts per model

W B S T W I A Ld Sv
5 5 4 5 2 4 2 10 3+

Weapons: Pulse Beam, Nano-Tube

Upgrades: Up to 5 Tactical Drones may change weapons for the point cost
Wide Pulse Beam - 5pts
Long Range Pulse Beam - 10pts
Heavy Pulse Beam - 12pts
Portable Cutting Beam - 20pts


Borg Battlewalker Walker 85pts
W B S I A F S R
4 5 6 4 3 12 12 10

Crew 1

Auto-repair Module

Weapons: 2 Dreadnought Close Combat weapons

Upgrades: Two of the following weapons MUST be chosen
Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon +1A - 10pts
Twin-lined Long Ranged Pulse Beam - 15pts
Heavy Pulse Beam - 12pts
Cutting Beam - 40pts
Teleportation Matrix - 10pts
Tritanium Armor Plates, +1 Armor to all sides - 25pts
Inertial Dampeners, ignore crew shaken and stun - 30pts

Troops

Drones
Unit size 5 - 15 Infantry 15pts per model

W B S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 3 4 1 3 1 10 4+

Weapons: Pulse Beam, Nano-Tube

Upgrades: Up to 3 drones may change weapons for the point cost
Wide Pulse Beam - 5pts
Long Range Pulse beam - 10pts

Proto Borg
Unit size 8 - 20 Infantry 7pts per model

W B S T W I A Ld Sv
3 3 3 3 1 3 2 10 6+

Weapons: Wrist Pulse Beam

Upgrades: All Proto Borg may be upgraded with Nano-Tubes for 3pts each
1 out of every 4 Proto borg may change weapons for the point cost
Pulse Beam - 5pts
Wide Pulse Beam - 5pts

Fast Attack

Borg Cone Skimmer 120pts
BS F S R
4 12 12 12

Crew 4

Auto-repair Module

Weapons: Pulse Beam Array

Upgrades: Tritanium Armor Plates, +1 Armor to all sides - 25pts
Cutting Beam - 30pts
Teleportation Matrix - 10pts
Inertial Dampeners, ignore crew shaken and stun - 30pts


Heavy Support

Allied Obliterators same as in codex Chaos Space Marines


Planetary Assimilation Module Building 350pts
BS F S R
4 14 14 14

Crew 10

Auto-repair Module

Weapons: 4 Pulse Beam Turrets, one mounted at each corner

The Planetary Assimilation Module (PAM) is a 6 inch cube (gameboard size) that constantly injects nanoprobes and energy into the surrounding soil, the infected area is directly under the control of the borg player. Place anywhere in borg player's deployment zone, at start of the game the zone extends 6 inches from base of PAM, every turn as long as the PAM is still active the zone advances 3 inches in all directions. The whole zone is treated as difficult terrain but not to the borg (they built it, they know whats there).

purplefood wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I dunno about SW/BA being able to be built directly from Codex: SM with just some name swaps to the units, Fitzz.

Most of the differences between Traitor Guard and Loyalist Guard are aesthetic or come in the form of allies.

I think you could compress all the SM codeci into 4 Codeci...
SW Codex
BT Codex
SM Codex (Vanilla)
Angels of Death Codex (BA and DA)
With the right rules in place you could do it easily...

Personallly I think the SW codex should be the only distinct one, since they already have a book and are the only first founding chapters (with a book mind you) that have a different organisation. White Scars and Iron Hands should have their own books too, but we need some love for things other than power armored supermen.

I think they need to re release rules for Feral Orks. I wondered why they were barely even mentioned in the latest codex, and kind of hoped that they were saving them for their own book or something. Although since Orks are Xenos, that would likely never happen.

purplefood wrote:Inquisition.
Contains:
Rules for Inquisitors of all 3 Ordos
Options to field inducted guard (Enough to make an army from)
Rules to field allied Marine units (Not all of the SM codex but enough to field supporting units)
Rule to field Deathwatch (As a kill team or several kill teams)
Rules to field Grey Knights (As an aelite army with a small model count)
Rules to field Sisters of Battle (As an army or a retinue)
Rules to field henchmen (As an entire army or simply a retinue)
Rules for special characters of: The Deathwatch, all 3 ordos, Grey Knights and Sisters of battle.
Rules to field assassins.

Full agreement. The only thing I might ever want instead of this is some sort of a rogue trader codex, because it could allow for the same amount of character as an Inq Codex would.

Oh, and Arbites should be added to that list as well, IMO.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

purplefood wrote:Inquisition.
Contains:
Rules for Inquisitors of all 3 Ordos
Options to field inducted guard (Enough to make an army from)
Rules to field allied Marine units (Not all of the SM codex but enough to field supporting units)
Rule to field Deathwatch (As a kill team or several kill teams)
Rules to field Grey Knights (As an aelite army with a small model count)
Rules to field Sisters of Battle (As an army or a retinue)
Rules to field henchmen (As an entire army or simply a retinue)
Rules for special characters of: The Deathwatch, all 3 ordos, Grey Knights and Sisters of battle.
Rules to field assassins.

Full agreement. The only thing I might ever want instead of this is some sort of a rogue trader codex, because it could allow for the same amount of character as an Inq Codex would.

Oh, and Arbites should be added to that list as well, IMO.

Second the arbites even in fluff the can kick major arse.

a mercenary codex, this codex would be usable with other armies, representing armies hiring them. the models would be cool too, imagine a pirate, loaded with dakka. or a rouge nid with scavenged technology, standing upright with an independent brain. Or a tau lost in the warp and accepted into the band of mercenaries, ad becomes a techie for the rest of the mercenaries. and maybe the rare squat, who'd survived and is now a mercenary.

I dunno but it sounds cool...

The Lost and the Damned
Farsight Enclave