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Big fan of the Kan wall. Every time I face it with SM I struggle a bit. Our store has an Ork guy who has been using it since the new codex. Only thing he does different from your list is paqck buggies instead of koptas and parks them within range of the KFF.
Non-the-less we still see everyone insisting that Orks cannot compete at all. In skilled hands they can be pretty effective in a Kan-Wall or a BW list.

I agree with that. Why bother charging the purifiers with nobs at all when you can just shoot them to death or charge them with kans, dreads etc? They can't really hurt your kans.

Even if you shoot a purifier squad down to 1 single unit, if you charge it with nobz or boyz, all you're really doing is giving that one guy a 50/50 chance to cause a wound to every model in your unit. Even with good saves and fnp, you're losing guys or taking wounds for no reason.

I understand what the OP is saying. Sometimes you have to go into a unit you don't like. It's not as bad as it seems. New Ideas and going aginst the norm doesn't work here on dakka though

I'm a fan of the Crucible of Malediction vs GK >.>

I was thinking of getting some Haemonculi with a Crucible, even if it kills ONE Grey Knight, the gear made its points back, though the Hammy hasn't yet... Seems like something I will have to try.

I just had a game against a GK player, it was annihilation match and I pretty much owned him. Instead of using my usual speed freak army I went to a more Dakka approach. He didnt have enough models to go against the amount of firepower I was throwing at him. Had a bunch of lootas for the transports, and some Zzap Guns to take out his landraider.

So Grey Knights are pretty easy to kill, just throw enough bullets and ordnance at them so they fail there saves, fairly easy with orkz.

Hazard30 wrote:I just had a game against a GK player, it was annihilation match and I pretty much owned him. Instead of using my usual speed freak army I went to a more Dakka approach. He didnt have enough models to go against the amount of firepower I was throwing at him. Had a bunch of lootas for the transports, and some Zzap Guns to take out his landraider.

So Grey Knights are pretty easy to kill, just throw enough bullets and ordnance at them so they fail there saves, fairly easy with orkz.

You managed to take out a LR with zap guns? That takes a hell of a bunch of luck. Really. Hitting on 5s, then needing at least a 9 on two dice for strength. Its pretty lucky.

Yea, it did take about 5-ish tries, many gretchin died in order to take out that vehicle. It was the last thing to go, but not much else in the ork list could take it out.

Kan wall has to watch the Psy Quad Cannon dreads, though. 4 TL S8 shots per dread is nasty.

Yeah grey knights fall to concentrated shooting, all the cheese talk is a little extreme, they have good things in their book yes, but nothing bad enough to be called broken really, unless your playing a daemon army and he built his army to own daemons. A TAC grey knight army is beatable, shoot the crap out of them, ap3 is your friend, ap2 is your friend, 60 boys with shootas are your friends. Yes they can take land raiders, well 3 max in a list and for every land raider he loses more guys. You put 40 grey knights on the table at 1850 and you are at the hi-end of model count. So kill grey knights, just shoot them. And with the exception of purifiers, numbers work fine in CC, just not against purifiers.

Seems everyone is getting up in the air about Orks dealing with Grey Knights this is what you need:

Warboss - power klaw - Grey Knights don't like power weaps even with 5+ invulnerable, just hope the boss doesn't get I.D'd first.

Nobz - mass attacks and wounds will bring power armour down, throw on power klaws for no armour saves - beware of force weapons with them!

Burnas - mass flamer templates for the win, weight of wounds will bring Grey Knights down.

Lootas - weight of wounds will bring down the Grey Knights with S7 wounding on a 2+

Boyz - weight of numbers will bring Grey Knights down, only Purifiers can stand up to hordes, other Grey Knights will go down like normal Space Marines. Shootas will help thinning them down before charging.

Deffkopters & Warbuggies - ap3 rokkits for the win, beware of force weapons if sending Kopters into combat against infantry, should be strictly vehicles only.

Kanz & Deff Dreads - dccw for the win.

Big Gunz - kannons with ap3 templates, remember BS3 thanks to Grots

Battlewagon - Grey Knights struggle with tough armour, only psycannon can really deal with armour 14 and then it needs rending. Use dethrollas for weight of wounds.

For those who haven't got it, it's weight of wounds with Orks. Only things which have AP are KMB and personally I'd rather take rokkits which can deal with power armour (not terminator armour though) and deal with vehicles too. Shoot the Grey Knights to death and once the numbers are thinned out charge them, just beware of force weapons if you're using multi wound combat models i.e Warboss & Nobz.

Honestly, I'm more curious as to how to deal with GKs using my Tyranids. I feel about as confident as one can without actually hitting the board that I can at least give the GK player a few nasty wake up calls, but with nids? Seems they have an answer to anything that nids can throw at them, and a pretty good answer to boot.

Seems like most of the hard hitters are going to be psychic based, on both sides. It's going to be either horrifying...or hilarious. I am confident that a zoanthrope brood dropping 3 warp blasts on a purifier squad will solve the problem nicely, albiet testing at -1LD, similarly a trio of warplances will probably result in discomfort on a paladin squad......Or they could eat S8 autocannons and get IDed should they fail saves.

I'm sure that should I be able to maneuver a trygon and HT into paroxysm + charge range, my worries about GK CC will be greatly reduced (Base initiative 1, hitting on 5+ and testing for hammerhand/ID on 3D6 anyone?) ...but will it be ENOUGH? One five, followed by one six, and then a psychic test equals A DEAD MC.

I'm pretty certain that a wall of Toxigland termagants or genestealers will do nicely versus a small unit of non-purifier GK...But then half the lists I've seen and watched local people assemble have included more purifiers than any other single unit. Wee.

Hive guard can pop their transports fairly quickly, but then I have the minor detail of large amounts of short range firepower holed up in difficult terrain, and tyranids having a distinct lack of frag grenades. (HA, my unit of adrenal genestealers assaults your minimum sized squad of dudes! ...wait, what do you mean initiative 10?!)

I've mentioned on P1 how to deal with Grey Knights using Tyranids

Against Grey Knights these Tyranids would work well:

Hive Tyrant - cast paroxysm and see those I6 halberds now at I1 and WS1, the Grey Knights will force -1 leadership on the Tyrant thanks to the aegis rule but still LD9.

Tervigon - Use to swamp with Termagants, use the Termagants to strike before the Grey Knights (if not using halberds) thanks to the Tervigons adrenal glands. Toxin sacs will help for re-rolls, how many wounds can the Grey Knights take?

Tyranid Prime - bonesword + lash whip = dead Grey Knights and instant death for Paladins etc.

Zoanthrope - erm S5 AP3 blast? Will be subject to -1 leadership thanks to the aegis special rule

Ymgarl Genestealers - Halberds I6, sure so are Ymgarls which morph to mkae T5 now Grey Knights need 5+ to wound.

Hive Guard - Use weight of wounds to bring squads down, don't bank on it for Terminators though

Warriors - boneswords & lashwhips will stop those halberds striking first, power weapons will make mince meat out of power armour and force leadership tests on Paladins etc if they fail bye-bye!

Shrikes - bonesword and lashwhips as above.

Carnifex - 2 x twin-linked devourers for weight of wounds, take 25% damage that's -1 morale test for you, Grey Knights are mostly LD9.

Trygon - make sure you put adrenal glands on it and only charge if the squad isn't using halberds, Trygon strikes first squad maul the squad - only charge against minimum or weaken units to avoid force weapons striking back.

The best power for Tyranids is shadow in the warp to stop Grey Knights using force weapons and psychic powers, use it well

Zoanthropes with the warp blasts will do very nicely, just remember -1 to leadership as you mentioned.

I'm pretty sure WS1 I1 and 3D6 for hammerhand or force weapon is enough, remember you're striking first and they can only use the force weapon if they're alive and Grey Knights are just power armour.

You seem to be writing off force weapons as a threat simply by virtue of SitW. What if they have Brotherhood Banners?

And don't forget that GKs libbys have hoods now....

daedalus wrote:You seem to be writing off force weapons as a threat simply by virtue of SitW. What if they have Brotherhood Banners?

I'm not writing force weapons off at all. I actually said beware of them. If the squad has a brotherhood banner then force weapons are automatically activated, which means if you're assaulting with multi wound models then you have a problem - in this case I wouldn't bother if they have a banner.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jmurph wrote:And don't forget that GKs libbys have hoods now....

There's nothing to forget, Librarains have psychic hood as standard wargear like all Librarians do.

Ah, fair enough then.

Nids are a complicated issue with no simple answers.

General advice:

Keep all MC within shadow of the warp. IC doing Hammerhand + squad doing force weapon=ID on a 5+ to wound. TMC need full T6 versus S4 to stay alive.

Charge purifiers with MC, warriors, or shrieks and don't let them get into contact with gaunts or stealers.

Charge paladins and termies with stealers.

Charge strike squads with anything.

Hiveguard against vehicles, if you take zoies beware dreads and their reinforced aegis bubble.

Outflanking stealers can handle psyfleman dreads

The doom will work great against an all purifiers list, but pods will mishap if his troops are strike squads with warpquake.

schadenfreude wrote:
The doom will work great against an all purifiers list, but pods will mishap if his troops are strike squads with warpquake.

Or interceptor squads, although they're not troops.

EDIT: Gaah! Double post instead of edit, and can't remove my post! Halp!

mercer wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The most important part when writing a guide, or copypasting one, is to make sure that everything's correct.

Grey Knight vehicles arguably *AREN'T* psykers all the time.

Charging Grey Knights with Nobz is just stupid unless you're willing to suffer the consequences. While they do warn about it, there should be a warning like THIS , not like this.

Jaws doesn't target units, and as such shouldn't be affected by aegis or reinforced aegis.

"Just kill Purifiers with numbers". Really? REALLY? That's just plain stupid. What happened to "don't charge, just shoot them"?

The rest is decent enough, but these points stick out like a sore thumb to me.

Saying that vehicles aren't psykers all the time applies to all Grey Knights then and any psyker too. Psykers don't have to use powers the same as the vehicles. I'm not sure what your point is here.

Why is charging Grey Knights with Nobz stupid? Grey Knights will strike at the same time unless using halberds Nobz should have mixed wargear and cybork bodies for invulnerable saves. Nobz should hammer Grey Knight squads or give them a good beating due to amount of wounds they can put out. When killing Space Marines it's all about the amount of wounds and/or AP.

No, Grey Knights and their vehicles being psykers at different times isn't the same thing. One rule tells you that you're a psyker for the purpouses of psychic tests and hoods, one tells you that the unit counts as a single psyker at all times. How is that "the same"?

As for why it's stupid charging Grey Knights with Nobz: If there's few enough Knights left for you to whipe them out, you're going to wipe them out and lose a couple of Nobz to force weapons. If a single Knight survives, however, there's quite a high likelihood that you're going to lose combat. Thus, you should only charge Grey Knights with Nobz if you really need the overwhelming force i.e. if you're willing to suffer the consequences, just like I wrote...

Regarding the giant text part in my post, I fixed it so it's working as intended, but not to make anyone look bad, just in case I get called out on it...

KingCracker wrote:I agree. Imagine a perfect scenario with a 30boy mob. 15 wounds right off the bat from cleansing flame, not counting whatever the amount of attacks the GKs get. Most of those wounds are going to fail. Youd better be damn sure your going to kill the purifier squad if you are planning to assault

That's really a new aspect in 40k game play. I like it.
However, if one Purifier survives the remaining Orks are again in a world of hurt before they are eventually able to hit back.


Eldar will eventually not have much trouble to deal with GKs.
First, Eldar tanks are very resilient against GK shooting.
Second, Eldar tanks are very fast and shooty enough to take down MEQ units in some volleys.
Third, the GK psychic powers are easily shot down with runes of warding;
a GK getting a warp attack is usually a dead GK.

Having played against (pure) Grey Knights yesterday, there's one thing I noticed that made me keep faith in my Orks :

Grey Knights rely a lot on Ld tests. But even with Ld9, they're bound to fail some (1/4 actually), so have them test, a lot.

I made 2 squads run out of the board : one through Tank-shock with a BW (yes, GK struggle to destroy BW, even with Stormravens), and one through mass shooting (took 3 casualties from MANz and a few surviving Shoota boyz).

A squad of Purifiers also failed Cleansing flames when assaulting one of my 20-boyz mob. Yeah, that happens too.

PS : I second all the above comments about Kanz : they rule against GK. Be careful though, S10 mastercrafted hammers can and *will* ruin your day from time to time.

Thunder hammers ruin any AV units day though Those things just own. But I look at that in 2 ways. 1. The GK player doesnt put the goosd stuff through out his list and therefore you can pick which units to assault and not assault with the Kanz. Or 2. They do and you just have to suck up the attacks.