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Article taken from www.imperiusdominatus.com

So are the latest bad boys giving you a beat down? Are the Grey Knights kicking your toy soliders in the groin? Are those force weapons laying the smack down? Well here's how to even the score.

Grey Knights are Space Marines

Ok that's a obivous title but look at the big picture for a minute, Grey Knights are exactly that, Space Marines! Everyone knows how to kill Space Marines and that's with mass fire power and mostly plasma weapons though anything AP3 (i.e battle cannon) or below will do very nicely.

The Grey Knights are a balanced Marine army in terms of shooting and assault as they can do both nicely. They're not vanilla Marines who do mostly shooting and they're not Blood Angels who do mostly assault. These guys to do both. The shooting they can have a decent amount of fire power as all models come with storm bolters standard and you'll find most units having the psycannon upgrade which is S7 rending. To balance this amount of shooting out majority of G.K weaponry is 24" range which isn't too bad, if you think all weapons are assault that's at least 30" range so keep that in mind. Assault wise all models in a unit have a force weapon which is also a power weapon and all squads have the hammerhand psychic power which is +1 strength so if you're going to assault them make sure it's a hard hitting unit which either strikes first or can with stand a punch i.e Assault Terminators. Though, before piling in make sure you check what nemesis force weapons the Grey Knights have a halberds are I6! If you're not sure about nemesis weapons check here: A guide to nemesis force weapons

Now you know they're affective at shooting and assault how exactly do you beat them? Well as mentioned at the start they're Space Marines and always keep that in mind as people brick it when seeing Grey Knights. You keep that in mind it will keep you focused.

As mentioned the fire power isn't too bad but not massive range so try and out range them on weapons and blast them far away with anti tank weapons to nail their Rhinos/Razorbacks and let them walk up or even use anti tank weapons to chip model count down from range, after all Marines don't come in huge units so a few lascannon shots should knock out one or two of the power armoured silver ones.

In combat only engage them if you have a horde as larger numbers will bring Grey Knights down i.e Tyranids or Orks or use a hard hitting assault unit such as Terminators or Nobz, though beware because of the force weapons Nobz can be instant death. If you're going to assault Grey Knights make sure you chip them down with fire power first and assault them with muliple units if you're not running large units and try not to assault with a monstrous creature unless that monstrous creature is striking first, you don't want that Carnifex to eat a force weapon!

You shall not pass, psyker!

Every single Grey Knight is a psyker, even the vehicles too which count as LD10. Other units in the codexes can be psykers too i.e Inquisitors. That means Grey Knights don't like psychic hoods. As these guys will be using powers often a psychic hood or a Rune Priest will be getting some use out. Sure Grey Knights work without psychic powers but it's annoying when they can be stopped.

Grey Knights have the aegis special rule which basically means any psyker targeting a unit takes -1 leadership when doing psychic tests, now that's not too bad but obivously depending on the psykers leadership. One problem is Dreadnoughts which have a -4 to leadership but a 12" bubble! So will Grey Knights are very anti psyker they too can also be stopped, if you're using a psykers in your army which have powers which affect any units i.e jaws of the world wolf make sure you stop the Dreadnoughts if there's any units in the army.

Big new shiny stuff!

Like all the other new codexes in the past the Grey Knights comes with some cool new shiny stuff which has caused up a dust storm. How exactly do you beat all these giant walkers and units which don't need LOS to shoot?

Dreadknight

The Dreadknight isn't as scary as you think. Sure it's a big monstrous creature with 2+ armour and 5+ invulnerable but it will go down to weight of fire like anything else, I'm sure it likes plasma and it only has 4 wounds - how many 5+ invulnerables can it make? Another thing about the Dreadknight is bog standard it's pretty cheap but to make it ranged offensive it costs making it Trygon costs. Think about it the more your opponent spends on these the less he spents on the force. Just dish out either poison rounds on them i.e hellfire rounds, plasma, melta or lascannons etc. Anything which wounds easily or forces the invulnerable save will bring them down.

Purifiers

But these guys hurt in close combat I hear you saying auto wounding every model on a 4+ in combat before the fight even starts.

Well yeah, that is a pain, but it's 4+ so only 50% chance to wound and you get a armour save. Charge the Purifiers with weight of numbers and they won't hack through even with cleansing flame and that's providing they get good rolls with that power. Like other Grey Knights hack them down with fire power then charge and just grin and bear it and you will bring them down. Honestly, cleansing flame isn't as scary as people make it out. It's a good power but not game breaking so chill your beans

Purgation Squad

Uhm, yeah, these guys don't need line of sight to shoot!

Well that's pretty cool but factor in their weapons are 24" range max which isn't awesome but not mega bad. It's a psychic power to use so you have chances of stopping that i.e psychic hood, shadow in the warp etc if you're close enough and a big and the power gives a 4+ cover save which is massive. The only time you need to worry about Purgation Squads is when they have incinerators and you're hiding behind a wall close by and you have a 4+ armour save or worse...

Paladins

Badass Terminators with two wounds and feel no pain thanks to Apothecary!

Ok these guys are two wound Terminators that's it. Sure they will be hard to deal with and no doubt people will play wound allocation tricks with them with unique wargear. Don't worry about the Apothecary too much as it's a 70 ish point upgrade and not really worth the points. These guys only have a 5+ invulnerable so blast them with AP2 fire double toughness i.e lascannons and I.D them. Use plasma with weight of fire to bring those wounds down quickly.

That's about it for now, and as you can see Grey Knights aren't as badassed as you think. Sure they're cool but at the end of the day they're Marines with force weapons, storm bolters and psychic powers and if you use your noodle you can have a good game against them instead of bleeting like a sheep about codex creep and everything is cheese

The most important part when writing a guide, or copypasting one, is to make sure that everything's correct.

Grey Knight vehicles arguably *AREN'T* psykers all the time.

Charging Grey Knights with Nobz is just stupid unless you're willing to suffer the consequences. While they do warn about it, there should be a warning like [b][i][u] THIS , not like this.

Jaws doesn't target units, and as such shouldn't be affected by aegis or reinforced aegis.

"Just kill Purifiers with numbers". Really? REALLY? That's just plain stupid. What happened to "don't charge, just shoot them"?

The rest is decent enough, but these points stick out like a sore thumb to me.

Is this your work? You cite the source of it, but if it isn't your work a simple link + your ideas would be a better format.

If it is your work, I don't really have much to add other than clean up the grammar. Too many run-on sentences make it hard to read. There are other issues, but it hurts my head too much to try and find all of it.

Oh, some of the points aren't fully supported, though I do agree with them, there really needs to be at least an explanation. Example: "Don't worry about the Apothecary too much as it's a 70 ish point upgrade and not really worth the points" Sure, I agree with the idea that apothecaries aren't worth the points, but there wasn't much support of this conclusion. Also, since many people are planning on taking them (at least to start with), giving tips on how to handle it would be more useful. After all, you have to play what your opponent brings, not what he should bring.

The part I find annoying about this read is how it feels like its only saying, well if you play IG or a SM style army this is how you deal with them. The other points just made no sense as far as working for xenos armies.

Weight of numbers against a purifier squad? Holy gak is that a bad bit of advice. Heres a better bit of advice and Ive yet to play against the grey boyz yet. DONT ASSAULT PURIFIERS Yea, because I love statistically losing 50% of my mob to cleansing flame, THEN lose more to their actual attacks, THEN I get to attack with whats left.

Im not super terrified with the rest of the army. Im not saying itll be easy figuring out how to best them with Orks, but theres really only 2 units that Im a bit worried about. Purifiers and Paladins. The problem I saw with this read on them is "lascannons will deal with them good enough" erm..... ok so what about armies that dont have a similar weapon? Im kindda curious just how to deal with them TBH. 2+ 5++ FNP (70pts is alot of points, but IMO thats worth it just to make them that much more of a pain in the ass) My rokkit spam is useless against them, and assaulting them doesnt seem like such a great idea either. I mean, against normal termies, boyz are the answer, is it the same still? Am I just freaking myself out with the multi wound FNP they get?


Would dreds/kans be the answer there? I only looked over the codex the other day (my brother bought it) so I dunno how they are against such units

Throwing greater numbers at purifiers is horrible advice, especially since the wounds cause combat resolution. If just 1 gk model survives the round the combat res is either going to cause a failed morale test or large numbers of wounds from fearless.

The asnwer is either "just shoot them" or charge them with a low model count elite unit.

I agree. Imagine a perfect scenario with a 30boy mob. 15 wounds right off the bat from cleansing flame, not counting whatever the amount of attacks the GKs get. Most of those wounds are going to fail. Youd better be damn sure your going to kill the purifier squad if you are planning to assault

KingCracker wrote:I agree. Imagine a perfect scenario with a 30boy mob. 15 wounds right off the bat from cleansing flame, not counting whatever the amount of attacks the GKs get. Most of those wounds are going to fail. Youd better be damn sure your going to kill the purifier squad if you are planning to assault

Probably no surprise, but seems to me like mass firepower is the way for orks to counter purifiers. boomguns/killkannons might become more common, I can also see biker spam (36 TL S5 shots is nothing to laugh at, even with ork bs). There's also the burna wagon and deffrolla options.

deffdreads/kans is also a potential counter.


Also keep in mind, if someone spams purifiers, then you're probably not going to see as many gk terminators/paladins

The more Im thinking about Paladins the less afraid Im becoming of them. I didnt know if they were able to be ID (again I didnt get the read the codex in depth the other day) but they ARE. So Im guessing that even though they are hardasses, they are going to eat it even harder from the Nob PK.


Purifiers are basically a stay the F away from them unit. Im going to just shoot them, and drop as many rokkits into them as possible. I personally use a boomwagon or 2 anyways because they are fun, but I still dont see them popping up as the thing to bring.

Also can you explain the reason you think burna wagons and deffrollas will be a good option to take them out? They still get their saves from both. I think the burna wagon is just not a great unit anyways. The only time is if you play a fluffy army that has flame templates everywhere, or if you play against nids/Orks alot and templates are just the way to go

KingCracker wrote:

Also can you explain the reason you think burna wagons and deffrollas will be a good option to take them out? They still get their saves from both. I think the burna wagon is just not a great unit anyways. The only time is if you play a fluffy army that has flame templates everywhere, or if you play against nids/Orks alot and templates are just the way to go

an open topped battlewagon with burnas firing out of it is going to ruin a squad of purifiers if it can get close enough to do so. Yeah, they get their save, but that's a lot of saves if it's from a max sized squad of burnas.

Well, plan A was to shoot them with a lot of lascannons, bolters, meltas and plasma guns. Plan B was to hit them with thunderhammers.

I am already in the process of creating 4 plas + FNP plasma command squads, just for the occasion! Perhaps even with bikes for the S5 return fire!

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The most important part when writing a guide, or copypasting one, is to make sure that everything's correct.

Grey Knight vehicles arguably *AREN'T* psykers all the time.

Charging Grey Knights with Nobz is just stupid unless you're willing to suffer the consequences. While they do warn about it, there should be a warning like [b][u] THIS , not like this.

Jaws doesn't target units, and as such shouldn't be affected by aegis or reinforced aegis.

"Just kill Purifiers with numbers". Really? REALLY? That's just plain stupid. What happened to "don't charge, just shoot them"?

The rest is decent enough, but these points stick out like a sore thumb to me.

Saying that vehicles aren't psykers all the time applies to all Grey Knights then and any psyker too. Psykers don't have to use powers the same as the vehicles. I'm not sure what your point is here.

Why is charging Grey Knights with Nobz stupid? Grey Knights will strike at the same time unless using halberds Nobz should have mixed wargear and cybork bodies for invulnerable saves. Nobz should hammer Grey Knight squads or give them a good beating due to amount of wounds they can put out. When killing Space Marines it's all about the amount of wounds and/or AP.

notabot187 wrote:Is this your work? You cite the source of it, but if it isn't your work a simple link + your ideas would be a better format.

If it is your work, I don't really have much to add other than clean up the grammar. Too many run-on sentences make it hard to read. There are other issues, but it hurts my head too much to try and find all of it.

Oh, some of the points aren't fully supported, though I do agree with them, there really needs to be at least an explanation. Example: "Don't worry about the Apothecary too much as it's a 70 ish point upgrade and not really worth the points" Sure, I agree with the idea that apothecaries aren't worth the points, but there wasn't much support of this conclusion. Also, since many people are planning on taking them (at least to start with), giving tips on how to handle it would be more useful. After all, you have to play what your opponent brings, not what he should bring.

You know if you get 2 + 2 =4 right? If you check my signature you'll find out if it's my work or not.

What exactly do I need to support the Apothecary? I think I made it clear that the Apothecary is expensive and it will be AP2 fire mostly going into Terminators which makes the Apothecary worthless. I think that's a pretty clear conclusion. I've already given tips how to handle them, that's what the article is about..

KingCracker wrote:The part I find annoying about this read is how it feels like its only saying, well if you play IG or a SM style army this is how you deal with them. The other points just made no sense as far as working for xenos armies.

Weight of numbers against a purifier squad? Holy gak is that a bad bit of advice. Heres a better bit of advice and Ive yet to play against the grey boyz yet. DONT ASSAULT PURIFIERS Yea, because I love statistically losing 50% of my mob to cleansing flame, THEN lose more to their actual attacks, THEN I get to attack with whats left.

Im not super terrified with the rest of the army. Im not saying itll be easy figuring out how to best them with Orks, but theres really only 2 units that Im a bit worried about. Purifiers and Paladins. The problem I saw with this read on them is "lascannons will deal with them good enough" erm..... ok so what about armies that dont have a similar weapon? Im kindda curious just how to deal with them TBH. 2+ 5++ FNP (70pts is alot of points, but IMO thats worth it just to make them that much more of a pain in the ass) My rokkit spam is useless against them, and assaulting them doesnt seem like such a great idea either. I mean, against [i]normal termies, boyz are the answer, is it the same still? Am I just freaking myself out with the multi wound FNP they get?


Would dreds/kans be the answer there? I only looked over the codex the other day (my brother bought it) so I dunno how they are against such units

No it doesn't say that at all. It says they go down like any other Marines i.e plasmas etc Marines also don't like fire power saturation which I think I mentioned.

Did you miss where I said shoot the Purifiers first to whittle them down and then assault?

I put i.e lascannons as a example, not every army has lascannons but I am sure you can figure something out i.e dark/brightlances etc.

schadenfreude wrote:Throwing greater numbers at purifiers is horrible advice, especially since the wounds cause combat resolution. If just 1 gk model survives the round the combat res is either going to cause a failed morale test or large numbers of wounds from fearless.

The asnwer is either "just shoot them" or charge them with a low model count elite unit.

Ah another one who can't read. I said shoot them first then assault...they're not going to do a lot of damage after cleansing flame if there isn't a lot of models.

KingCracker wrote:I agree. Imagine a perfect scenario with a 30boy mob. 15 wounds right off the bat from cleansing flame, not counting whatever the amount of attacks the GKs get. Most of those wounds are going to fail. Youd better be damn sure your going to kill the purifier squad if you are planning to assault

15 wounds out of 30 is just a a average, you might not always get that, I've been there and had good rolls and not good rolls and remember you're saying 15 wounds but you get armour save too.

KingCracker wrote:The more Im thinking about Paladins the less afraid Im becoming of them. I didnt know if they were able to be ID (again I didnt get the read the codex in depth the other day) but they ARE. So Im guessing that even though they are hardasses, they are going to eat it even harder from the Nob PK.


Purifiers are basically a stay the F away from them unit. Im going to just shoot them, and drop as many rokkits into them as possible. I personally use a boomwagon or 2 anyways because they are fun, but I still dont see them popping up as the thing to bring.

Also can you explain the reason you think burna wagons and deffrollas will be a good option to take them out? They still get their saves from both. I think the burna wagon is just not a great unit anyways. The only time is if you play a fluffy army that has flame templates everywhere, or if you play against nids/Orks alot and templates are just the way to go

Paladins as you said won't like power klaws and weight of wounds i.e big choppas laying the smack down. Deff Dreads and Killa Kanz would be useful and also KMB too as they're S8 AP2 if I remember right.

Purifiers are annoying, though remember they're just power armour and you get saves from cleansing flame! As mentioned before weight of wounds go against Marines because of there small numbers something which Burnas and maybe deffrollas will help with.

Waaaaghmaster wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Also can you explain the reason you think burna wagons and deffrollas will be a good option to take them out? They still get their saves from both. I think the burna wagon is just not a great unit anyways. The only time is if you play a fluffy army that has flame templates everywhere, or if you play against nids/Orks alot and templates are just the way to go

an open topped battlewagon with burnas firing out of it is going to ruin a squad of purifiers if it can get close enough to do so. Yeah, they get their save, but that's a lot of saves if it's from a max sized squad of burnas.

Ahh you should of specified that one. I was thinking the skorcha wagon for some reason.
Yes a BW with burnaboyz will still burninate

So if your nids, how do you kill them??? They go through hordes and instakill MC's in close combat, and are better at shooting than them also.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread but it bugs me that you really think these tactics are good. Especially the part about purifiers

You realize that for some armies assaulting even a weakened purifier squad is stupid, and exactly what the GK player would want them to do. If I have even 1 purifier left, he can wipe out half (or more) of a horde before they get to swing back. I don't care if he dies at that point, I've gotten more than enough value out of him. The fact that you think hordes are the best unit to assault these guys says a lot about your actual experience with them.

Advocating a player to rely on luck is laughable. I don't care how lucky you are personally, telling someone that they *might not* lose half their squad to cleansing flame before combat starts is just bad advice plain and simple. The thing about luck is that it goes both ways.

And as others have said, yes charging GK with nobs is stupid. In fact, using nob squads at all against GK is stupid. Yes you might win against *some* units like strike squads, but the majority will destroy those expensive nobs before they get the chance to take a swing. The secret is force weapons that won't allow you to do any wound allocation tricks, every nob that gets hit, probably dies.

nevertellmetheodds wrote:So if your nids, how do you kill them??? They go through hordes and instakill MC's in close combat, and are better at shooting than them also.

Yeah me and my buddy have been working on this and so far it has not gone well for the 'Nids. He has played GK since they were hidden in the Witch Hunters/Daemon Hunters book and I have just started a 'Nid army and the swarm of 'Nids just doesn't hold up, even going from 5th edition 'Nids back to the old edition for the GK.

But I'm sure there is something. Perhaps lots of spore mines?

nevertellmetheodds wrote:So if your nids, how do you kill them??? They go through hordes and instakill MC's in close combat, and are better at shooting than them also.

Grey Knights don't go through hordes, only Purifiers do and that's dice rolls on 4+ and you still get armour save. They don't kill all monstrous creatures in combat with I.D because of shadow in the warp. If you are going to say those things you need to look at the full picture.

You torrent Grey Knights with weight of fire power like devourers for example, Warriors will be handy with adrenal glands and boneswords providing the Grey Knights do not have halberds.

Bruteboss wrote:I wasn't going to reply to this thread but it bugs me that you really think these tactics are good. Especially the part about purifiers

You realize that for some armies assaulting even a weakened purifier squad is stupid, and exactly what the GK player would want them to do. If I have even 1 purifier left, he can wipe out half (or more) of a horde before they get to swing back. I don't care if he dies at that point, I've gotten more than enough value out of him. The fact that you think hordes are the best unit to assault these guys says a lot about your actual experience with them.

Advocating a player to rely on luck is laughable. I don't care how lucky you are personally, telling someone that they *might not* lose half their squad to cleansing flame before combat starts is just bad advice plain and simple. The thing about luck is that it goes both ways.

And as others have said, yes charging GK with nobs is stupid. In fact, using nob squads at all against GK is stupid. Yes you might win against *some* units like strike squads, but the majority will destroy those expensive nobs before they get the chance to take a swing. The secret is force weapons that won't allow you to do any wound allocation tricks, every nob that gets hit, probably dies.

No he can't wipe out half a squad with cleansing flame - don't you roll armour saves or something? Admittly I've only played three times with Purifiers and only twice I've got them into combat, they cast cleansing flame which was roughly about 50% wounding but the horde got armour saves and in this case got feel no pain - was Tyranids with Tervigon support now I know feel no pain isn't going to happen for everyone but saying a single Purifier will wipe out half a squad is rubbish. If you're going to start spouting rubbish like that you best look at all the facts first.

I didn't say rely on luck if you read right. See I am a realist and you're a theoryist which makes a big difference. Once again you're talking rubbish about losing half a squad thanks to cleansing flame - YOU GET ARMOUR SAVES! You won't lose half a squad at all and that's based on getting 50% 4+ to wound you could get more you could get less. Have a thing about it. Enemy models do not just die to cleansing flame you know.

As already mentioned (why do I keep repeating myself?) Nobz will strike as the time as Grey Knights as they're I4 on the charge, G.K will only strike first is using halberds and I have already said do not charge them WHEN THEY HAVE HALBERDS. Sure Nobz will be I.D if the force weapons go off but they should have invulnerable saves which may save some, you do have cybork bodies on your Nobz right? You know do they just don't "auto die" to like everything else you've said.

I think it was probably best you didn't reply as everything you've argued about I have already said and if you read carefully I have said about don't charge if using halberds. You also need to look at the rules as you seem to think cleansing flame doesn't allow armour saves..

run a horde nid list. Genesteelers and such. As few multi wound models as possible. Purifiers can't kill them all if you don't throw them all at them at once.

Bruteboss wrote:
And as others have said, yes charging GK with nobs is stupid. In fact, using nob squads at all against GK is stupid. Yes you might win against *some* units like strike squads, but the majority will destroy those expensive nobs before they get the chance to take a swing. The secret is force weapons that won't allow you to do any wound allocation tricks, every nob that gets hit, probably dies.

List tailoring is crutch bad players use to avoid learning how to play the game better. List tailoring is also not possible in a tournament. Nobs are one of the Ork codex's best units, so in a tournament an ork player that uses nobs will have to find some way to use them against GK. Purifiers would be my target of choice for the nobs because while nothing is a good choice to assault because everything has power weapons the nobs would do better against purifiers than the boys would.

Wound allocation actually works against nobs when fighting GK, mega nobs with no wound allocation would actually do better as a force weapon trigger would at most inflict 1 extra wound.

dalsiandon wrote:

nevertellmetheodds wrote:So if your nids, how do you kill them??? They go through hordes and instakill MC's in close combat, and are better at shooting than them also.

Yeah me and my buddy have been working on this and so far it has not gone well for the 'Nids. He has played GK since they were hidden in the Witch Hunters/Daemon Hunters book and I have just started a 'Nid army and the swarm of 'Nids just doesn't hold up, even going from 5th edition 'Nids back to the old edition for the GK.

But I'm sure there is something. Perhaps lots of spore mines?

As mentioned use weight of fire to bring them down i.e devourers which will wound on a 4+ even 2+ if using brainleech worms and weight of wounds will bring them down. Boneswords combined with adrenal glands will make sure you go first in combat and cause instant death to multi wound models i.e Paladins. I will make this very clear as everyone has missed this; do not charge if they have halberds! If they have normal force weapons then go for it as you will strike first and have power weapons thanks to the boneswords.

It's just a question of learning the new enemy (Grey Knights) and adjusting tactics. I don't see why everyone is finding it so hard.

I wouldn't voluntarily subject my Nobs to close combat with a unit that causes instant death wounds off of power weapons unless there were only a couple of models left.

Burna boyz are awesome. But the real solution is even easier.

The best Ork answers to dealing with GK threats:
Dreadnight: Ghazghkull Thraka
Purgation Squad: Ghazghkull Thraka
Purifiers: Ghazghkull Thraka
Paladins: Ghazghkull Thraka

Ghazghkull's role in my army...besides making my nobs a troop choice, besides giving me a 6" run, besides making my army fearless when I need it..is to destroy things that my boyz don't want to tangle with.

mercer wrote:

I didn't say rely on luck if you read right. See I am a realist and you're a theoryist which makes a big difference. Once again you're talking rubbish about losing half a squad thanks to cleansing flame - YOU GET ARMOUR SAVES! You won't lose half a squad at all and that's based on getting 50% 4+ to wound you could get more you could get less. Have a thing about it. Enemy models do not just die to cleansing flame you know.

As already mentioned (why do I keep repeating myself?) Nobz will strike as the time as Grey Knights as they're I4 on the charge, G.K will only strike first is using halberds and I have already said do not charge them WHEN THEY HAVE HALBERDS. Sure Nobz will be I.D if the force weapons go off but they should have invulnerable saves which may save some, you do have cybork bodies on your Nobz right? You know do they just don't "auto die" to like everything else you've said.

I think it was probably best you didn't reply as everything you've argued about I have already said and if you read carefully I have said about don't charge if using halberds. You also need to look at the rules as you seem to think cleansing flame doesn't allow armour saves..

6+ armor on boys won't save much. Average roll against a mob of 24 =24 hit, 12 wound, 10 die, and 60 points just went down the crapper. I4 versus I6 doesn't matter as ork boys are I2/I3 with FC. GK swing first, then the boys, then the nob. If the nob doesn't kill the last GK the mob is going to take massive amounts of wounds from fearless. If the nob does kill the GK then the mob is below half strength. The GK player is going to blast it with S5 bolters until there are 7 or less members standing, they fail morale and run off the table unable to regroup. Boys need to avoid purifiers, end of story.

Lord_Osma wrote:run a horde nid list. Genesteelers and such. As few multi wound models as possible. Purifiers can't kill them all if you don't throw them all at them at once.

Against Grey Knights these Tyranids would work well:

Hive Tyrant - cast paroxysm and see those I6 halberds now at I1 and WS1, the Grey Knights will force -1 leadership on the Tyrant thanks to the aegis rule but still LD9.

Tervigon - Use to swamp with Termagants, use the Termagants to strike before the Grey Knights (if not using halberds) thanks to the Tervigons adrenal glands. Toxin sacs will help for re-rolls, how many wounds can the Grey Knights take?

Tyranid Prime - bonesword + lash whip = dead Grey Knights and instant death for Paladins etc.

Zoanthrope - erm S5 AP3 blast? Will be subject to -1 leadership thanks to the aegis special rule

Ymgarl Genestealers - Halberds I6, sure so are Ymgarls which morph to mkae T5 now Grey Knights need 5+ to wound.

Hive Guard - Use weight of wounds to bring squads down, don't bank on it for Terminators though

Warriors - boneswords & lashwhips will stop those halberds striking first, power weapons will make mince meat out of power armour and force leadership tests on Paladins etc if they fail bye-bye!

Shrikes - bonesword and lashwhips as above.

Carnifex - 2 x twin-linked devourers for weight of wounds, take 25% damage that's -1 morale test for you, Grey Knights are mostly LD9.

Trygon - make sure you put adrenal glands on it and only charge if the squad isn't using halberds, Trygon strikes first squad maul the squad - only charge against minimum or weaken units to avoid force weapons striking back.

The best power for Tyranids is shadow in the warp to stop Grey Knights using force weapons and psychic powers, use it well


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dashofpepper wrote:I wouldn't voluntarily subject my Nobs to close combat with a unit that causes instant death wounds off of power weapons unless there were only a couple of models left.

Burna boyz are awesome. But the real solution is even easier.

The best Ork answers to dealing with GK threats:
Dreadnight: Ghazghkull Thraka
Purgation Squad: Ghazghkull Thraka
Purifiers: Ghazghkull Thraka
Paladins: Ghazghkull Thraka

Ghazghkull's role in my army...besides making my nobs a troop choice, besides giving me a 6" run, besides making my army fearless when I need it..is to destroy things that my boyz don't want to tangle with.

That's what I said Dash about Nobz, only charge if a small number left, appears some let's avoid the insulting passive-aggression here please on here cannot read right.

schadenfreude wrote:

mercer wrote:

I didn't say rely on luck if you read right. See I am a realist and you're a theoryist which makes a big difference. Once again you're talking rubbish about losing half a squad thanks to cleansing flame - YOU GET ARMOUR SAVES! You won't lose half a squad at all and that's based on getting 50% 4+ to wound you could get more you could get less. Have a thing about it. Enemy models do not just die to cleansing flame you know.

As already mentioned (why do I keep repeating myself?) Nobz will strike as the time as Grey Knights as they're I4 on the charge, G.K will only strike first is using halberds and I have already said do not charge them WHEN THEY HAVE HALBERDS. Sure Nobz will be I.D if the force weapons go off but they should have invulnerable saves which may save some, you do have cybork bodies on your Nobz right? You know do they just don't "auto die" to like everything else you've said.

I think it was probably best you didn't reply as everything you've argued about I have already said and if you read carefully I have said about don't charge if using halberds. You also need to look at the rules as you seem to think cleansing flame doesn't allow armour saves..

6+ armor on boys won't save much. Average roll against a mob of 24 =24 hit, 12 wound, 10 die, and 60 points just went down the crapper. I4 versus I6 doesn't matter as ork boys are I2/I3 with FC. GK swing first, then the boys, then the nob. If the nob doesn't kill the last GK the mob is going to take massive amounts of wounds from fearless. If the nob does kill the GK then the mob is below half strength. The GK player is going to blast it with S5 bolters until there are 7 or less members standing, they fail morale and run off the table unable to regroup. Boys need to avoid purifiers, end of story.

That is true but my point still stands you won't lose half the unit as you get armour saves and I siad charge a weakened Purifier unit, not a full strength one. The Orks weight of attacks will bring the Grey Knights down and even if the Orks did win against a full man strength unit they'd still be shot up next turn anyway so that's a pointless comment.

Dashofpepper wrote:I wouldn't voluntarily subject my Nobs to close combat with a unit that causes instant death wounds off of power weapons unless there were only a couple of models left.

Burna boyz are awesome. But the real solution is even easier.

The best Ork answers to dealing with GK threats:
Dreadnight: Ghazghkull Thraka
Purgation Squad: Ghazghkull Thraka
Purifiers: Ghazghkull Thraka
Paladins: Ghazghkull Thraka

Ghazghkull's role in my army...besides making my nobs a troop choice, besides giving me a 6" run, besides making my army fearless when I need it..is to destroy things that my boyz don't want to tangle with.

Burnas would work great against purifiers, and you've got to love the irony of lighting purifiers on fire with a massive number of flame templates.

You're probably the guy to add input on this. What the hell does an ork player do with his mobs against an army where everybody has a force weapon? My pessimistic view is the nobs are not going to do well against anything, they just suck less against purifiers than boys suck against purifiers and Ghazghkull can't be everywhere at once.

I already mentioned about Nobz getting I.D'd at the top of the article, didn't you read it? I also said charge a weakened unit...if a unit of Purifiers or even Grey Knights have a handful left the Nobz aren't going to take much wounds or I.D wounds are they. It appears once again people skim over things and do not read properly.

mercer wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

mercer wrote:

I didn't say rely on luck if you read right. See I am a realist and you're a theoryist which makes a big difference. Once again you're talking rubbish about losing half a squad thanks to cleansing flame - YOU GET ARMOUR SAVES! You won't lose half a squad at all and that's based on getting 50% 4+ to wound you could get more you could get less. Have a thing about it. Enemy models do not just die to cleansing flame you know.

As already mentioned (why do I keep repeating myself?) Nobz will strike as the time as Grey Knights as they're I4 on the charge, G.K will only strike first is using halberds and I have already said do not charge them WHEN THEY HAVE HALBERDS. Sure Nobz will be I.D if the force weapons go off but they should have invulnerable saves which may save some, you do have cybork bodies on your Nobz right? You know do they just don't "auto die" to like everything else you've said.

I think it was probably best you didn't reply as everything you've argued about I have already said and if you read carefully I have said about don't charge if using halberds. You also need to look at the rules as you seem to think cleansing flame doesn't allow armour saves..

6+ armor on boys won't save much. Average roll against a mob of 24 =24 hit, 12 wound, 10 die, and 60 points just went down the crapper. I4 versus I6 doesn't matter as ork boys are I2/I3 with FC. GK swing first, then the boys, then the nob. If the nob doesn't kill the last GK the mob is going to take massive amounts of wounds from fearless. If the nob does kill the GK then the mob is below half strength. The GK player is going to blast it with S5 bolters until there are 7 or less members standing, they fail morale and run off the table unable to regroup. Boys need to avoid purifiers, end of story.

That is true but my point still stands you won't lose half the unit as you get armour saves and I siad charge a weakened Purifier unit, not a full strength one. The Orks weight of attacks will bring the Grey Knights down and even if the Orks did win against a full man strength unit they'd still be shot up next turn anyway so that's a pointless comment.

Average rolls=50% of the boys will be hit by purifying flame , 42% of the boys will die every turn to purifying flame. 42% is not 50%, but it's still the end of the world if the purifiers don't all die and combat resolution happens.

Define weakened. If it's 2 or less the boys lost to purifying flame are worth more than points than the 2 purifiers. If it's 3 or 4 they run the risk of not killing the unit if the nob whiffs.

Right so that's not half the squad then is it? That's why I said make sure the unit is depleted because while it doesn't make a difference to cleansing flame at least the number of Purifiers is reduced attacking back, which Orks should hopefully asborb the wounds and finish off the Purifiers.

Weakened would be about half strength, maybe less. The Nob should kill 2 maybe if gets the right rolls. Boyz should be about 3 depending on how many attacking back of course.

After being attacked by multiple people here that realize your advice is either vague or wrong you have gone to repeating the same point over and over. Shoot them until their weak and then assault.
you could have saved a lot of time and trouble if that was all you had to say about "killing Grey Knights".

The only thing I will grant you is that your advice on tyranids is solid. You don't seem to have a grasp of GK vs Orks, or how most armies will have to deal with them. Which is shooting.

Edit: and if think you losing 42% of your squad isn't bad because it "isn't half", guess what happens after the purifiers get to make their attacks before you...

I could have saved myself time and trouble by putting things in bold so people like yourself can see things more clearly

I've said shooting haven't I? Didn't I say deplete units and then charge as that's what Orks do, charge. Haven't I said about plasma guns which covers all Imperial armies? Haven't I said weight of fire which people I am pretty sure can work out.

I didn't say it wasn't bad. I said it wasn't half like you said it was because you didn't factor in armour saves.

Just goes to show that you can't read properly.

You know what, you're absolutely right. I've been deliberately ignoring your posts this entire time and only writing based on wild guesses.
Its amazing how many people in this thread have failed to read what you've been writing. If only we all took the time to consider your well thought out and clearly worded arguments.

Also, how stupid can I be to discount a 6+ armor save like that? Everyone I know always roles 6's on those armor dice all the time.

schadenfreude wrote:You're probably the guy to add input on this. What the hell does an ork player do with his mobs against an army where everybody has a force weapon? My pessimistic view is the nobs are not going to do well against anything, they just suck less against purifiers than boys suck against purifiers and Ghazghkull can't be everywhere at once.

Force weapons. Ha. Haha. HAHAHAHAHWAAAAUUUGHHAHAHA!

Against non-cleansing flame grey knights, boyz will do the trick.

5 space marines hitting on 4+ wounding on 4+, you getting a 6+ armour save before swinging back.
5 space marines hitting on 4+ wounding on 4+, you not getting a 6+ armour save before swinging back. Oh, and those space marines are more expensive, have nemesis force weapons that can instant-death your single wound 6 point models with 6+ armour saves....

Yes please.

Ghazghkull doesn't need to be everywhere at once. In my Ork armies, he is there to deal with threats my boyz, nobs, deffkoptas, and burna boyz are not comfortable dealing with. Monstrous creatures, genestealers that I can't get burnas to, daemon princes, large squads of non-Thunderhammer terminators...20 boyz will assault 5 TH/SS terminators all day long, but not 5 LC terminators.

Just need to apply the right tools to the job - and to make sure that your army has the right tools for the job.

And this entire thing only applies to foot slogging or battlewagon bound orks. Kan-walls couldn't care less about cleansing flame. Or force weapons. Or instant death. Or whether you have a 2+ or a 3+ armour save. 9 killa-kans with rokkits, 45 Lootas, a KFF or two, a deffkopta or two, a gretchin squad, and as many ablative wounds as you want for the KFF in 1-2 squads of boyz has been a standard and very effective kan-wall. I don't seeing Grey Knights offering it any particular threats.