Umm 20point cygnar list (am I doin this right?)

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**Sgt.Sunshine**

Neroku the Warcaster and JWC are two entirely seperate warcasters. The focus they hold is only theirs. For future reference focus can only ever be allocated to jacks I believe, there are probably some exceptions. You can not share focus.

Do you understand the concept of a battle group? If not the battle group is led by a Warcaster, Siege in this case, and only Warjacks can be a part of it, again save a few exceptions. The JWC essentially has his own battle group in where he can have his own jack to control. Focus can only be transmitted between things in your battle group, I believe.

Also, War Dog is irrelevant and I'm sorry I brought it up as it's kind of distracted from the main conversation. It's really irrelevant for the main topic of this discussion and should be dropped.

**Neroku**

Ok I get that I didn't relize it might be a good idea to put a charger under him to give It 2 damage boosted attacks every turn or 1 boosted 1 extra and the arm bonus

Wardog sounds cool you said it was khador only right?

I'll use reinholdt as my 25point and going to 35pts how's this

Siege -5
Defender 9
Thunderhead 12
Black 13th 4
Stormblades 5
Officer UA 3
Reinholdt 1

Jwc 1
Charger 4

or I can make the thunderhead a hammersmith and add in a squire and something else
Or a stormclad and a squire +storm gunner attachments

Is there any mercs besides reinholdt that are worth looking into?

**Metsuri**

Neroku wrote:Is there any mercs besides reinholdt that are worth looking into?

There are several, who are a good fit to cygnar army. I would check out both Eirysses, Lady Aiyanna & Holt, Victor Pendrake(who is actually a Cygnar model, but came out as minion solo), Gorman Di Wulfe and Rupert Corvolo. In addition look up Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters, who form a nice combo with the new cygnar solo Jonas Murdoch.

**Neroku**

Sounds good I'll look into it I saw Eirysses she's good

can't wait to see the rest

**Casper**

I would switch out the Thunderhead for a cheaper jack, I find an Ironclad works just fine. That would give you 5 points to play with.

**Neroku**

Would general nemo be a good caster for the thunderhead? It allows all upkeep spells to be cast for free at the start of the game and gives the turn 1 without having to pay the upkeep

**infinite_array**

Neroku wrote:Would general nemo be a good caster for the thunderhead? It allows all upkeep spells to be cast for free at the start of the game and gives the turn 1 without having to pay the upkeep

Woah, there. I think you've gotten some bad information on the Thunderhead. Not a problem, cause that's why you're here!

The upkeep spell pre-cast is only available if you're running a eNemo tier 4 list. Which would require a massive shuffling of your models.

The 'turn 1 no upkeep' bit, well, I don't know where you got that. But I've never heard of that.

By the way... eNemo tier 4 list? Completely awesome. Imagine a massive lighting storm, electricity flying everywhere.

**Neroku**

Oh I didn't knoW you needed t1-4 to get 4 I thought you just needed to meet the requirements. Under general nemo tier 4 it states that upkeep spells on the first turn do not cost focus to keep up I don't have the book infront of rme but it does say something like that.

I wanna make a list that thunderhead fits into but idk how to do it if I go with Darius I can make his tier list at 25 points easily thus making thunderhead 11points and the defender 8points. I can also obscure thunderhead by putting the half jacks infront of him and healing some damage every turn. I don't remember the list I made cuz I'm at work but I think it was

Darius -5
Thunderhead 11
Defender 8
Sword knights 4
Free UA
Sword knights 4
Free UA
With 3 points left over for something else

I don't remember if this is the list I think how tier 2 was free UA to 2 sword knight units I can't remember if not then I'll edit this post and post the proper list

I know I went of topic going frOm 20pts to 25 to35 back to 25 but I figure this is better them making 10 posts.

**Casper**

You only get 1 free UA, not 2. Darius likes Ironclads, run 3 or 4 of them with 2 units of Sword Knights and your golden.

**Neroku**

What do you guys think about hunters vs defenders I keep looking at new units in the book readin up on them and saying dam lol that guy looks good. According to tournaments I get to have 2 lists right? I think the Darius ironclad list for a melee list and siege defender list for a ranged dps list.

Also what's the best unit for what they do. I meen out of all the units in the book who fills there role the best? Is there a tie between units? Or is it one of those play test things where I have to figure it out myself. I was looking at the long gunner squad the rof 2 seems nice. Then the combined squads with the combined + Att/damg rolls seems nice 2.

**Metsuri**

Neroku wrote:Also what's the best unit for what they do. I meen out of all the units in the book who fills there role the best? Is there a tie between units? Or is it one of those play test things where I have to figure it out myself. I was looking at the long gunner squad the rof 2 seems nice. Then the combined squads with the combined + Att/damg rolls seems nice 2.

The preference of units depends on so many different things (personal preference/ play style, caster, scenario, opponents army, local meta etc) that there cannot be absolute list of units in order. I usually try to pick units that have good mobility. The rest is dependent on the caster I play. All of the units are decent, some are not viable in highly competitive builds, but they can be fun to play.

I haven't had too much of success with long gunners as they need to stay put to be able to use the second shot and loose their effectiveness dramatically when melee starts. They can be nice in certain combos, but I haven't played with them much after Mk2 came. There are several other units that work better with my playing style and casters I prefer.

**Neroku**

Ok thanks for the info now for my other question

Hunter vs defender?

Also is there anyway for me to get info on merc's with out buying anything? I know the rule book has a few but not all the 1s I need info on

**Casper**

Neroku wrote:Ok thanks for the info now for my other question

Hunter vs defender?

Also is there anyway for me to get info on merc's with out buying anything? I know the rule book has a few but not all the 1s I need info on

Technically thats 2 questions...

Depends on the role you want it to fill. Both are good jacks. However neither really works well with Darius. Just run Ironclads with him, they are cheaper and get the job done.

Usually your not going to run tons of mercenaries in an army. Perhaps a solo or 2 tops. Most of the info in on the PP website iirc.

**Neroku**

I edited the 2nd question in lol! The merc info is to fill 3points in a 15pt list for Fun.

The hunter defender question is for the siege list. For the role I think defenders would be good.

My Darius list is ironclads and sword knights. Melee list

So my lists are as follows
Darius -5

Ironclad 6
Ironclad 6
Ironclad 6
Sword knights 4
Sword knights/UA 4
With 4 Pts left over

Siege -5
Defender 9
Defender 9
Black 13th 4
reinholdt 1

Jwc 3
Charger 4

**Casper**

Well for your Darius list the UA for sword knights is 2 pts not 4. So you have 6 points left. You could max out the Sword Knight unit or you could buy another unit of Sword Knights and get some mechanics.

As for the siege list hunters are not usually taken as siege's feat doesn't stack with the armor piercing.

**Neroku**

No theres 2 units of sword knights and 1 gets a free Ua due to tier 2 bonus. when I pop sieges feat I usually end up boosting his str14 shot and killing the enemy warcaster for game.

**Casper**

Well in that case, just max both Sword Knight units out thats 4 points.

**Neroku**

It's the only thing I can do unless I switch ironclads for something bigger. Like a stormclad or something or mabie 3 hammer smiths instead?