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Post-game Analysis updated.



@randyc9999:

Do your (Crowe) taxes correctly and you may get a refund.


@SabrX:

Crowe is a stud and one of the best-kept secrets in the GK codex....if played correctly. In one game against necrons, he took out the Nightbringer. In another game against mechdar, he broke a farseer and howling banshees in combat with Cleansing Flame. He then went on to sweep some dire avengers on the eldar objective and break my opponent's seer-council (it was a multi-assault involving Crowe and vendread against dire avengers and witchblade seer council).

Big Mek SAG and then Nob PK's would have been my next targets after disabling his pie plate vehicles. I still fee that the key is to take out his mobility. I'm not too concerned with his PK's as my purifiers have 1 2++ invuln in assault (though I guess it doesn't really matter when I keep rolling 1's for their saves).


@gpfunk:

My first game with Crowe is the only game in which he didn't do anything. Since then, against necrons, eldars and orks, he's easily made 2x his points back. 30-boys + KFF PK mek should be more than 300pts easy, I think.

Why cant you try a powerful GK army for once instead, go against a good ork one and see what happens.

GK on foot are not purifyers, those need transports.
Foot GK are all about strike squads.



Librarian
teleport beacon
dark banishing, summon, shrouding, titan, quickening

10 Purifyers, warding stave, all halbeards
10 strike squad, 2 psycannons
10 strike squad, 2 psycannons
10 strike squad, 2 psycannons
10 strike squad, 2 psycannons
10 strike squad, 2 psycannons
10 purgators, 3 psycannons, teleport beacon
1845

71 models, a ton of bodies that deliver to much psycannons and stormbolters for any ork army to handle and that can get 3+ terrain cover as well.

This is a foot GK army, simple, effective, no nonsense, no combinations needed. You might experiment turning one of the strike squads into an interceptor and another one down to 5 strong instead and giving the librarian skulls.

This one never failed me against any ork build, ever!

Hahaha! Your right pyriel I wouldn't stand a chance against that list, so congrats you beet my orks every time don't you feel so good about you self?

@Pyriel:

I would love to play an all-foot GK army....but I just don't have that many models yet. I only have about 30, and even that is a work-in-progress.

My more balanced 2K foot-list would probably be something like this:

Librarian - Shrouding + Might
10x Purifiers - 4x Psycannons, 5x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, 1x Warding Stave
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, 1x Warding Stave
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, 1x Warding Stave
10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, 1x Warding Stave
Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread

2000


or this:

Librarian - Shrouding
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread

2000



@BigGreen:

We gotta play again, only next time, you're going to see a slightly stronger GK army.

what is up with the turtle

from what i have seen it looks like it was a great battle

Purifiers can be a good foot army...just need to have enough of them on the field.

Did you really need to milk that extra half inch on the razorback turret? haha

Also, did the store give you back a GK you left on the table a few weeks back? I found it and turned it in for ya.

Good bat-rep and looking forward to reading more of your GK ones.

-Nara

Interesting fight. Mech GK is a tough one to kill.

Hahaha! Your right pyriel I wouldn't stand a chance against that list, so congrats you beet my orks every time don't you feel so good about you self?

Depends on what type of ork army I meet, there are nice ones and there are super hard ones. This is to be used against the super hard ones.

Its not all to powerful since in an against all setting it has, like all armies, big weaknesses.

The debate was however about foot GK, this build is one of the very most powerful foot GK builds there is.
Thus I´m curious why it is not used in batreps against other power army builds. Granted,no orks will ever stand a chance against this one but still there are other things then orks.

I would love to play an all-foot GK army....but I just don't have that many models yet. I only have about 30, and even that is a work-in-progress.

Then proxy and see if you like it before eventually buying that many models.

Librarian - Shrouding
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread

2000

I usually play 1850p.
The idea of actually not taking dreads is to let your opponent waste all those anti tank weapons on cover save 20p models.
Its actually more effective then protecting a box of dreads that eat up your librarian for the shrouding and make everything else far less effective.

from what i have seen it looks like it was a great battle

I dont agree. It was one sided and boring.
A great battle is somehting that isnt decided until the last roll in the last turn.

Using a better GK army and playing it better the next time would result in a far better (more exciting) battle.

Purifiers can be a good foot army...just need to have enough of them on the field.

He had 30 of them, against a horde at that and was tables pretty quick.
Purifiers demand massed transports and transport protection, a foot purifyer army is one of the weakest GK builds you can make.

I look forward to the next batrep.

@ironhandstraken:

That was is represent me "turtling" around my objective.


@Naravus:

Is this Devin?

Maybe one of these days, I will get a real razorback.

Yeah, I got it. Thanks.

Pyriel- wrote:
The debate was however about foot GK, this build is one of the very most powerful foot GK builds there is.
Thus I´m curious why it is not used in batreps against other power army builds. Granted,no orks will ever stand a chance against this one but still there are other things then orks.

I wouldn't go so far as to say orks don't stand a chance against such a GK army. Your GK list a strong list, but as a foot list, it still shares the same weaknesses as any other foot-lists. Lack of mobility doesn't help it either.

Pyriel- wrote:
I usually play 1850p.
The idea of actually not taking dreads is to let your opponent waste all those anti tank weapons on cover save 20p models.
Its actually more effective then protecting a box of dreads that eat up your librarian for the shrouding and make everything else far less effective.

I'd have to disagree here. Even a foot-list can use the help of the dreads. Otherwise, you're a 24" army only. Other armies with more range can just stay back and hurt you. Besides, with cover (wherever you can find it) and shrouding, your dreads are quite durable with 3+ cover as well. Dreads are vital to the success of the knights (even a foot-list) as they balance out the army. And if your opponent is firing at the dreads, so be it. That means your knights are relatively untouched as they advance and shoot.

Pyriel- wrote:

Purifiers can be a good foot army...just need to have enough of them on the field.

He had 30 of them, against a horde at that and was tables pretty quick.
Purifiers demand massed transports and transport protection, a foot purifyer army is one of the weakest GK builds you can make.

I look forward to the next batrep.

Normally, I prefer more bodies but I think a foot purifier list is absolutely viable. But this battle just underscores how fragile a foot-MEQ army is, especially when the opposition has enough shooting to deal with them.

I wouldn't go so far as to say orks don't stand a chance against such a GK army. Your GK list a strong list, but as a foot list, it still shares the same weaknesses as any other foot-lists. Lack of mobility doesn't help it either.

True, all lists have weaknesses. I try to ment the lack of mobility by allowing almost the whole army to deepstrike and be able to be summoned as well.

I'd have to disagree here. Even a foot-list can use the help of the dreads. Otherwise, you're a 24" army only. Other armies with more range can just stay back and hurt you. Besides, with cover (wherever you can find it) and shrouding, your dreads are quite durable with 3+ cover as well. Dreads are vital to the success of the knights (even a foot-list) as they balance out the army. And if your opponent is firing at the dreads, so be it. That means your knights are relatively untouched as they advance and shoot.

They get a 4+ save at best, for the 3+ then I have to lockdown the libby AND clump all dreads together, not effective.

I dont want to give 1850 points worth of enemy AT fire only 1-3 weak targets to shoot at, that is easy points for the opponent.

In order to reach further with shooting I deepstrike or summon, very few things are hard to touch with 20-40 stormbolter and psycannon strike knights that arrive at the same time with shrouding and/or sanctuary to help against any eventual countercharge by whatever survives.

It´s a matter of taste I think but I never trust weak AV12 dreads unless I build the whole army around then, throw in a tecchie for that 2+ cover and use a librarian.
But yes, against chaos and certain eldar armies those dreads are worth taking.

Normally, I prefer more bodies but I think a foot purifier list is absolutely viable. But this battle just underscores how fragile a foot-MEQ army is, especially when the opposition has enough shooting to deal with them.

So how do you get them into melee to beguin with?

Possibly GK is not an assault army. They dish out a good beating but don't have the numbers to take it.

I got my first win against GK today. He spent too much of his firepower firing at tervigons with FNP. He lost sight of objectives and I had way too many troops for him to deal with.

Pyriel- wrote:

Normally, I prefer more bodies but I think a foot purifier list is absolutely viable. But this battle just underscores how fragile a foot-MEQ army is, especially when the opposition has enough shooting to deal with them.

So how do you get them into melee to beguin with?

Melee is not my primary concern. I can do just as much damage with shooting as I can with melee, depending on my opponent's army. If they're in assault range and won't get wiped out by the opponent's counter-assault, then I assault. Otherwise, I keep shooting. Against armies you can beat in assault, you assault only if you are in range. Against armies that can beat you in assault, you avoid it until you absolutely can't (or if you think you can wipe him out with your assault). Against those armies, just keep the distance and shoot at them.

But let me tell you, with strike squads you do not want to assault into big hordes. You need to keep away from them. With purifiers, it's ok. You'll probably win those assaults. Also, purifiers are more likely to beat elite assault units due to their base 2A and I6 halberds than strike squads. In other words, purifiers are much more adept at assault than strike squads....but I still wouldn't assault with them unless I know I won't get wiped out by the opposing counter-assault.

But whether they're strike squads or purifiers, they still die like MEQ's. They are fragile and need protection.

bucheonman wrote:Possibly GK is not an assault army. They dish out a good beating but don't have the numbers to take it.

Well said. That is the key to a successful GK general....knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the army.

bucheonman wrote:
I got my first win against GK today. He spent too much of his firepower firing at tervigons with FNP. He lost sight of objectives and I had way too many troops for him to deal with.

That's why tyranids can still beat the new GK's. It's not all doom and gloom. Tyranids present an interesting problem to all armies, and that is tervigons in objectives-base games. That is one of their biggest strengths.

True, I just feel like a more effective army is the one using its units for what they do best for their points the most turns possible.

That is shooting strike squads are more effective then shooting pyrifyers since they cost less and also cost less when you take casualties.
Taking something that is multirole is always a waste since no matter what you do you are always wasting points you already paid for on abilities that are not used.

A perfect example would be sternguards. You take them for shooting, you dont equip them with a powerfist and lascannons just because they might end up fighting a dread or shooting at a tank at long range.

As always Jy2, your battle reports are awesome! I did notice that orks kinda beat you at your own game there, shooting and using assault as a backup.

I like to run a more interesting list (although I did see a 4x incinerator purgation squad there!) list, with my 10 man interceptors actually toting 2x DH and 2x Incinerator, so they can A) jump (OR shunt), and toast a squad, and B) Jump and splatter any vehicle in the game off the board with ease. If you like specialising, combat squadding them with the 2x DH in one and the 2x Incinerator in the other makes sure you arent wasting any potential. Only problem with that is its a 40 point increase in what your paying for yours :/


I was just considering then....Purifiers get free incinerators, would it hurt to outfit one with 4x incinerator? Itd save you some points and could fill the roll of that 4x Incinerator purgation squad, if combat squadded.

Its always sad that we dont see any beautiful termies in your lists :( but none the less, looking forward to more great reports.

MOAR I SAY! MOAR!



Oh and Pyriel, we can sit here all day and tailor our lists to kill gak.

Jaon wrote:As always Jy2, your battle reports are awesome! I did notice that orks kinda beat you at your own game there, shooting and using assault as a backup.

I like to run a more interesting list (although I did see a 4x incinerator purgation squad there!) list, with my 10 man interceptors actually toting 2x DH and 2x Incinerator, so they can A) jump (OR shunt), and toast a squad, and B) Jump and splatter any vehicle in the game off the board with ease. If you like specialising, combat squadding them with the 2x DH in one and the 2x Incinerator in the other makes sure you arent wasting any potential. Only problem with that is its a 40 point increase in what your paying for yours :/

While they could inflict a lot of damage with incinerators, however, if you don't wipe out the target squad (or nearly), get ready for the counter-assault. With the mobility of the interceptors, I prefer to keep them out of assault range and just keep shooting with S5 stormbolters. They're much more survivable that way, unless you're playing an army like Tau and IG who is weak with assault but good with shooting. I guess it's just my preference.

I was just considering then....Purifiers get free incinerators, would it hurt to outfit one with 4x incinerator? Itd save you some points and could fill the roll of that 4x Incinerator purgation squad, if combat squadded.

Its always sad that we dont see any beautiful termies in your lists :( but none the less, looking forward to more great reports.

MOAR I SAY! MOAR!


Oh and Pyriel, we can sit here all day and tailor our lists to kill gak.

Purifiers with incinerators could work. Give them 2 incinies and put them in a razorback w/psybolt ammo and you have a fast-response anti-horde unit. It's just that it's hard to pass up on those 10pt psycannons for them. Psycannons now are just too good and flexible to pass up, especially when they're this cheap on non-terminator/purgation units.

I actually have used terminators, both against daemons in one of my battle reports and a few other armies that I did not do battle reports on. My only issue is a good delivery system for them. Land raiders and stormravens are expensive and is something I am moving away from. Footslogging terminators are ok if most of the rest of your army is also footslogging. Another option I am considering are grey knights in inquisitorial chimeras, though I haven't really built a list that I'm quite satisfied with yet.

Eventually, you will see more of them. Maybe you'll even see some paladins as well.

I think terminators are the least effective choice GK have.
PAGKS of all kinds outshoot them and even outlast them (bigger durability for the cost).

While they could inflict a lot of damage with incinerators, however, if you don't wipe out the target squad (or nearly), get ready for the counter-assault. With the mobility of the interceptors, I prefer to keep them out of assault range and just keep shooting with S5 stormbolters. They're much more survivable that way, unless you're playing an army like Tau and IG who is weak with assault but good with shooting. I guess it's just my preference.

One thing that might work wonders is mixing in 4Xincinerator purgators with normal strike squads and purifyers - all in rhinios.
Workign in tandem with other units would eliminatoe the one shot nature of the purifyers.

Painting was grate put orks are to ripped to compete with.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who is seeing the might of Crowe.

Pyriel- wrote:I think terminators are the least effective choice GK have.
PAGKS of all kinds outshoot them and even outlast them (bigger durability for the cost).

I honestly agree with this assessment, though not quite to that extreme. Terminators have their place in the right list, though purifiers, strike squads and henchmen are all more efficient units than terminators. However, I would rather take terminators over paladins.

One thing that might work wonders is mixing in 4Xincinerator purgators with normal strike squads and purifyers - all in rhinios.
Workign in tandem with other units would eliminatoe the one shot nature of the purifyers.

Purgations with 4 incinies are damn effective, if somewhat 1-dimensional. I wouldn't recommend more than 1 squad of them in a balanced list. Too many and it hinders your ability to combat mech-spam.

grayspark wrote:I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who is seeing the might of Crowe.

Crowe is a stud. My opinion of him now is that he is one of the best HQ's in the codex.

Then again what does Crowe have over a cheaper champion?
Unless you really really need a lot of purifyers Crowe is a liability whereas the champion comes with no weaknesses.

I´d rather use the champion over Crowe IF I only run 2-3 purifyers and still have enough troops to take objectives.


It´s also ratehr sad they made GK terminators so underpowered, the GK army litterarily screams for mass terminators and few things are as iconic for the GKs as their terminators.

Pyriel- wrote:Then again what does Crowe have over a cheaper champion?

2 wounds. The ability to cast Cleansing Flame while parrying all attacks, and the ability to take purifiers as troops.

Unless you really really need a lot of purifyers Crowe is a liability whereas the champion comes with no weaknesses.

I´d rather use the champion over Crowe IF I only run 2-3 purifyers and still have enough troops to take objectives.

The character just adds extra benefits to the army. Comparing Crowe to BC's is like comparing Pedro Kantor to chaplains in a SM army. Neither is really better than the other, but they will determine what type of army you will be playing. Crowe will be in purifier armies while BC's will be in armies with more infantry (i.e. strike squads) or tanks. It really boils down to what type of army you want to run.

It´s also ratehr sad they made GK terminators so underpowered, the GK army litterarily screams for mass terminators and few things are as iconic for the GKs as their terminators.

GK terminators are actually quite good if you compare them to other terminators. Just the fact that they are scoring makes them much better than regular terminators, but here you also have S5 terminators with 4++/2++ invulns in combat, I6, all sorts of grenades, +1/+2A, S5 stormbolters and stock force weapons. It's only when people start comparing them to assault terminators with 3++ invulns do they seem "underpowered". Honestly, that is not a fair comparison, as 95% of all the units in the game would seem "underpowered" against assault termies in a head-on fight. But for what they can do, GKT's are a steal but then again, so are most of the grey knight infantry units in the codex.

Glad to see that Orks aren't an instant loss ratio when we face purifiers kinde scared of them. But haven't played against an GK army yet so i have gotten a pretty good idea how to confront such players in the future.

Great battle rapport! GJ

Heh Orks still have a bag o surprises with them. Still, interesting to see Crowe not doing too horrible

@Warboss ZanZag:

Orks can still take on purifiers. Just shoot them up a bit and then charge when the unit is smaller. Just get ready to accept heavy losses from Cleansing Flame. Better yet, assault them with 3 killa kans and you'll probably do well.

I'd be careful of Castellan Crowe though. He is trouble for ork hordes. Better to assault him with PK nobs/meganobs or shoot him down with a bunch of lootas.


@kenshin620:

Yeah, they sure do have some surprises still. So does Crowe. He'll do well against assaulty armies but not as well against shooty ones.

I do not know why but the fact that the orks won made me happy. Well I just hate GK so maybe thats why. Nice report !

I sorta new the orks would win...pfffffffffffft... grey knights......

Grey Knights are no longer the "underdogs" of 40K compared to the older daemonhunters. Now, they are considered by many to be the new "bullies" of the 40K multi-verse. I can see why a lot of other players are rooting against the knights.

Well....that, and because they're all jealous of the Imperium's finest....

Or because of Codex Creep. You know. Maybe.