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If you're not down with Iron Warriors, then you're no friend of mine. Caution stripes and silver fo lyfe.

I chose marines for a few reasons. I like their basic weapons as well as most of the specials. Bolters, bolt pistols, meltaweaponry, thunderhammers etc powerfists being my personal favorites. Techmarines look awesome. If you ask me the predator is the best looking tank in the game. Scouts look good and are fun.

The thing that people find odd is that I do not like space marine power armor (chaos version being even worse). Terminator armor is fine and so is the scout carapace. Does not stop me from using power armor troops though.

HAZZER wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:

HAZZER wrote:

Movac wrote:Overrated: Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Salamanders, Dark Angels, Iron Hands

Cool: Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, White Scars, Raven Guard, Black Templars

Undecided on GK.

ultramarines are in xxxxxxxxxxxxhot not Overrated! (jokes)
Ture they can be over raited apart from Iron Hands that aren't that poplauar...Blood angels are Overrated too.....Im my opinon ultramarines,black tempers,slamaders,dark angels,blood angels,crizon fists are the most poplaur...

The only Ultramarine I like is Sicarius (He's a badass) and well Calgar has badass rules, but so does Sicarius. Who else can ID monstrous creatures in normal games.

Same here all of those people are pretty bad ass!And I have calgar and tellion, I'm still hopping to get Sicarius too.

I love Telion actually and Cronus is not so bad. I don't think any other non-codex chapters get an upgrade character like either of them.

Morsemorta wrote:Ok so we all know that the most common army you see a beginner 40K player playing is the SMs, but can you blame them the only army that ever comes in the starter sets are the SMs. So here's my question do you just honestly think the SMs are over rated and OP, or do you actually like them and play them for reasons other than the fact that GW decided they would stick you with them because you're a new player. I am quite interested to see what you guys think, and for myself I have to say i actually like them and I thought that before I knew that's what came in the starter set I like their looks, their vehicles, their fluff, and their tactical sort of eliteness.

Thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also tell why you think what you think.

Which marines are we talking about? Marines in general or specifically Codex: Space Marines?

Personally, I feel that they are far too overhyped. Yes they are the iconic center of the game, but the overexposure, and especially the background and fluff of the last 3 years, has really made them far less interesting and cool. I much preferred the technological/brutal look of the 3E marines with pipes and wires and blades instead of furs and baubles and bling that we have now. I liked them when they were more "CLEANSE/PURGE/KILL" and less "FOR THE HONORABLE GLORY OF THE GLORIOUSLY GLORIOUS HONOR OF GLORY"/"WOLF WOLF MCWOLF"

As a tabletop force? That depends on the book. C:SM I think is mostly fine except for the emphasis on Vulkan/Melta/Easymode 3++ Termi spam. SW's I don't think were playtested at all, and BA's are kinda like a bad internet fandex. GK's are...silly, but I haven't had a chance to play them too much yet. DA's are...mediocre, BT's still hold up ok. CSM's are likewise mediocre, but aren't horrible in terms of competitiveness (though in almost all other respects...)

Marines books are ok but after a while they sound like robots with all that FOR THE EMPEROR jazz you know. i like the IG no super armor or super bionics just simple man plus simple guns and a whole lot of friends down in the bloody trenches. plus Cain is funny as with most the books that deal with the imperial guard there are some great jokes

Do grey knights count as space marines? I like them. I started off as an ultramarine player, but got sick of them when I found out that they were played by just about everyone.

Grey knights are AWESOME!

The old rulebooks used to be obsessed with them. Now they are just overplayed. However the independent chapters are cool e.g. Space Wolves, Blood Angels etc.

Purge the daemon, the witch, the heretic, the xenos scum and anyone else you don't like!

I'm just now starting my first marine army. I currently have a Tau army and enjoy playing them, but I have a huge blood thirst for a decent close combat army and enjoy the Black Templar attitude to war. No scouts no static devastators and no psykers. Just moving foward into combat.

I think the next kit should probably be Imperial Guard against Eldar. It could be Infantry heavy with walkers.

Marines as well as empire codex's are outweighing the enemies right now in 5th edition release. They should balance out the releases a little better. 5th has Codex Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Imperial Guard, and now Grey Knights. The enemies have Tyranids and Dark Eldar. 5:2 Ratio Currently

space marines can be fun to play against. I'm currently workign on my sm army they will likely be black templar. which seem interesting. I wanted somethign more shooty but i like the coloring of the black templar and i can't find another chapter that will match the paint scheme i want. I am using a black/gold (looks black but reflects a gold tint) a metalic crimson trim , and white emblems.

I'd say some chapters with a tournament list can be considered hard to deal with, but then again same can be said for any list (except poor tau ... hope they get a good buff in the upcoming codex)

marines are jsut a ironically good all around troop amazing at anythign contrary to thier fluff, but not bad at anythign either. I agree i'd like to see them be more super soldier types, cost more points, but higher weapon skill and ballistic skill... won't happen though cause GW needs to sell as many models as possible and the more expensive the better, hence the transfer to more vehicle based models being almost impossible to not field to be competative

You do know that the baseline stat in 40K is 3, right?


They are 4's across the board. They are already supersoldiers.

The marines get so much attention because they were the original army. You go back, back in GW time, and the one constant IS the Space Marine. The looks have changed, the rules are different, and the fluff has been altered, but they were the first 'elite human' warriors. What IMHO appeals so much about them, is who wouldn't want to be super human? practically have super powers? Be almost NOT human, but be practically worshiped by humans. The idea is kinda appealing, to ones ego. The basic tactical marine is the "baseline" that all other armies stats are drawn from... are they better or worse than a marine? are they cheaper or more expensive?
Do I at times think that they over do the Space Marine? Yes.
Do I understand why they do it? Yes.
There are so many options for Space Marines, so many chapters (good or bad), because they want a SM option for every type of player out there.
Basic Marines (codex)/Undivided - for those of us that just like Marines good or bad.
Blood Angels/Word Bearers - fanatic warriors hell bent on engaging foes toe to toe
Dark Angels/Thousand Sons - one good on bad, each shrouded in various mysteries.
Space Wolves - Norse Vikings in Space?! Yes please!
I think we get the point though..... they get a lot of attention because they have SO many players because they have so many OPTIONS. Its so easy to build a Marine army to meet any play style and it helps when the Tactical Marine is the gold standard for basic troops, its appealing to the wallet because model for model SM are cheaper, which GW understands so they make more SM stuff to keep their own wallets filled, since hardcore marine players do not need a whole truck load of minis to start an army, the need to keep up the interest in the new models/figures so SM players spend more cash. Its a vicious cycle that I hope explained well enough.
But to really answer the OP question..... Space Marines are just cool. I love 40k for all its alien races, and I want to fight them all and crush them under the mighty heal of the SPACE MARINE!!!

The Space Marines overrated? I don't understand this concept.

40k is a humanocentric universe that was written around the Space Marines and their exploits. For most people, a starter set should include the iconic faction of the game. The opposing force then, could alternate as a way of showcasing the other factions out there.

It seems it is only those of us who already play the game who are offended that the starters focus on Space Marines. The starter forces are meant for new players. Most new players if they know anything at all about the universe know about the Space Marines. This is the draw. Why show a starter with the Eldar vs. the Dark Eldar? The first thing a player is going to say is 'Hey, is this 40k? Where are the Space Marines?'

4 is good but most units have 4's thrown about. I'd like to see 5's for toughness and 5's for weapon skill to show thier genetic enhancments and training. of coarse at a cost of mroe points per unit, but then again i know it won't happen for the aformentioned reason and as said... i'm not even a marines player yet and am mostly making the marines army as a loaner army. just want them to mroe match thier fluff and i don't see 4's as that great... just though though

G00fySmiley wrote:I'd like to see 5's for toughness

Put 'em on a bike!

you realize that most units have 4s thrown about is because most units are SPACE MARINES of one flavor or another.

An army kinda stops feeling all "elite" and "super soldiery" when every joe on the street plays with space marines.

This is why GW has to do things like make Grey Knights and Sternguard. Because playing with tactical space marines doesn't feel elite. like at all.

When you look at it from other perspectives, 4s accross the board with 3+ armor is pretty darn elite- especially as when compared to more generic humans and even Eldar civilians
Space Marine: ws4, bs4, s4,t4, ini4, sv3+
Guardsman: ws3, bs3, s3, t3, ini3, sv 5+
Eldar Guardian: ws3, bs3, s3, t3, ini4, sv5+

yea... I won't even post the fire warrior statline... I don't understand why people want space marines to be super duper soldiers.

I feel like MEQ players just forget how good they have it.

Just a thread ago Melissa was enlightening us on how a Lord Commissar can rip space marines apart. In the ..
grimmdark of the future there can be badasses that AREN't Space Marines. I promise.

I know htere are more badasses in 40k i play orks predominatly and once my boys and nob w/ pk get in range things don't so so well for marines, given thier fluff i'd love em to last longer than they do though

Ok, here it comes... *strikes match*

Space Marines ARE the GW poster boy, we all know this! I will agree they are given way too much attention, they shouldn't have a codex per chapter.. that's just valuable resources GW could be spending keeping ALL THE OTHER ARMIES up to date. And yes they are pushed so in turn they are sold. But the thing that makes them the "noob army" is they are easy to play. That being said I'm not calling all you Marine players "bad players" or "noobish" just stating the facts. Almost every model in the army has the same stat line. The standard equipment is very basic and general... and effective. The army is more forgiving of tactical mistakes, if you screw up its not the end of your game plan as it is for some more specialized armies, so the learning curve isn't as large.

So Marines are 1) easy to play and understand. 2) they are tactically forgiving. 3) Their stats, rules and equipment are easy to remember.

These reasons are why Space Marines are the GW poster child and the "noob army" of choice. My first army was Eldar... so I "grew up" hard. GW promotes SM so new players don't get frustrated and quit.

As far as being OP they are not... in fact SM are the standard to which all else is compared. If its weaker than a Space Marine then its cheaper. If its stronger then it cost more points. (this excludes space wolves with which I have a whole list of problems but I won't get into that here... ). SM I think have the most well rounded and balanced codex out there.

Commissar Rant wrote:
As far as being OP they are not... in fact SM are the standard to which all else is compared. If its weaker than a Space Marine then its cheaper. If its stronger then it cost more points. (this excludes space wolves with which I have a whole list of problems but I won't get into that here... ). SM I think have the most well rounded and balanced codex out there.

+1

I really enjoy *most* SM fluff, and I like the models so....yeah. Many of their models are really detailed, and I enjoy the breadth of tactical options they have at their disposal. My only issue is the enormously uneeded amount of codices, the necron/BA bromance and the GK (anything that can be descirbed as "nearly incorruptible" shouldn't be part of this setting).

Its just an attempt to sell more books, models, ect. I don't mind the "special chapters" having their own codex... but they really don't need one each. Combine a few of them or something! But then I guess sales might drop a little...

I'm fond of using Space Marines in my DH campaigns when the players start getting a bit too cocky and sure of themselves with their Ascended characters and nifty gee-whiz bang-bangs and zap-zaps.

I then craft a bit of a side-adventure that ends up dropping them in the thick of things with some outpost world under attack from Orks or 'Nids or Necros or some other Really Bad Thing, and have them all dead/dying or real, real low on ammo and Wounds before some squad of Marines from the Deathwatch comes in to save the day.

I like using the SM in my DH games as an example of the best that the Empire can offer, as the warrior-monks they are depicted as, as the super-human soldiers and defenders of the Imperium of Man that the fluff paints them as.

I think I am going to have the players run into Bjorn Fell-Handed at some point, in a non-combat situation (perhaps while in the Jericho Reach, when they have need to make a petition to the Deathwatch)... just to see how the players react to meeting a SM that remembers Leman Russ personally.

I prefer the older fluff of the grim warriors with harsh ideals and the whole "bring piece to the galaxy by choking the sh*t out of it" concept. While I don't mind the growing "master heroes" in the fluff, it doesn't capture the Grimdark of the setting as much.

Elector wrote:I prefer the older fluff of the grim warriors with harsh ideals and the whole "bring piece to the galaxy by choking the sh*t out of it" concept. While I don't mind the growing "master heroes" in the fluff, it doesn't capture the Grimdark of the setting as much.

This +1000. I miss the more techy, brutal "Cleanse/Purge/Kill" space marines, the current "knights of the realm in shining armor in SPAAAAACE" emphasis really drags them down sadly.

Exactly, the Space Marines aren't there to be Hercules or Knights of the Round Table, they're there to curb-stomp the Emperor's foes, and if they happen to save lives in the process, it's a pleasant surprise.

I've read several good novels that depict the Marines well, the codices are where I've noticed the most of "every Marine codex says that THIS Chapter in particular is the noblest and best, despite very other Chapter sayins so as well."

Holy_doctrine wrote:I agree with Wib, way way too many codecies. Dark Angels, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Codex Marines, Grey Knights.

Grey Knights need there own codex

Hmmmm, Space Marines are not OP. Not really. They are the cover boys of the whole 40k universe thou, and I guess that makes them 'auto-hated' by many people who have been playing the game for longer than, say, 3rd ed.

The reason's so many noobs start with them are myriad, but the most common factors IMO are:

1: They look cool
2: The staff at GW push them hard
3: Once the noob reads more about them, they become even more appealing
4: They have nearly 30 years of 'fluff' behind them
5: They are probably the most 'Forgiving' army to play, in game term's
6: Did I mention that they look cool?

All of these factors add up to an Army that most, if not all of us have dabbled in at one time or another.

Without the Space Marines, 40k would not be what it is now.....

Commissar Rant wrote:Ok, here it comes... *strikes match*

Space Marines ARE the GW poster boy, we all know this! I will agree they are given way too much attention, they shouldn't have a codex per chapter.. that's just valuable resources GW could be spending keeping ALL THE OTHER ARMIES up to date. And yes they are pushed so in turn they are sold. But the thing that makes them the "noob army" is they are easy to play. That being said I'm not calling all you Marine players "bad players" or "noobish" just stating the facts. Almost every model in the army has the same stat line. The standard equipment is very basic and general... and effective. The army is more forgiving of tactical mistakes, if you screw up its not the end of your game plan as it is for some more specialized armies, so the learning curve isn't as large.

So Marines are 1) easy to play and understand. 2) they are tactically forgiving. 3) Their stats, rules and equipment are easy to remember.

These reasons are why Space Marines are the GW poster child and the "noob army" of choice. My first army was Eldar... so I "grew up" hard. GW promotes SM so new players don't get frustrated and quit.

As far as being OP they are not... in fact SM are the standard to which all else is compared. If its weaker than a Space Marine then its cheaper. If its stronger then it cost more points. (this excludes space wolves with which I have a whole list of problems but I won't get into that here... ). SM I think have the most well rounded and balanced codex out there.

+1

...and yes they are cool...but lots of other races are just as cool, and would do just as well in sales if GW gave them an equal share of TLC. I've sworn off Space Marines in most flavors just because of the blue/red/yellow/white/green marine syndrome, but I think with the GK dex refreshed and competative, I'm probably going to finally jump into some power armor models. They play sufficently different and have enough different options for me to finally be interested in a marine based army.

IMHO, I prefer the aesthetics of tyranids, being a fan of genestealers and lichtors, I prefer other armies in terms of fluff and design, same for the fiends of slaanesh, the changeling and the soul grinder

Space marines are more for competitive than fun. Every overly competitive douche plays space marines of one chapter or another, making games utterly bland, but I love how 90% of players in my area severely underestimate tyranids, yet always get pissed when they lose a precious rhino or assault squad to genestealers.

The only reason I'm playing blood angels is so I can play an army without thinking, brcause all space marines are just point and shoot.

Just saying, deal with it

earth-star wrote:
Space marines are more for competitive than fun

...all space marines are just point and shoot.

trolling.... but i still feel the need to respond.

-1

This is a borderline naive statement..... you make it sound like Marines are all... "stand in a line and shoot as the other army moves in... and you win!"
there are some players and some armies that can do this, and do it well. But like all armies in 40k you have to play to your armies strengths and time your assaults, move units appropriately. use cover. run the appropriate vehicles, deep strike, etc. THEN as a space marine, you have to deal with that 3 out of 5 armies you play against out number you 3 to 1 on a model to model basis.
I have more fun playing with Space Marine armies than any other army. Any army can be fun, and army can be competitive.
If I wanted to just play "point and shoot marines"... i'll boot up Dawn of War. end

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:

Two thumbs up there! ^^^

The Marines, like any Army in 40k, can be as simple or as complicated as you like. The real key is finding that perfect line between competitive and fluffy.
Not all players are playing to win, however most people don't like to lose. I have played 40k in all it's many variations since RT days. My lose count is off the chart, but I still try to have a bit of a laugh whilst I'm doing it.

The Space Marines allow for the beginner much much more than say, Eldar or 'Nids...... For this reason they are still the most popular army in 40k.

As for the 'point and shoot' nonsense.....meh

Death Company, Assault Marines, Space Wolves of all kinds are consummate HtH units. Again this goes back to being as tactical as you feel you can be with a Marine army.....

Agreed, very much so, I've lost some and won some with my marines, but when it comes to an army's tactics, it depends on your creativity, your playstyle, and your list, for example, if you tailor your list to be a static gunline army, sure you'll be more point-and-shoot, but if you make yourself more mobile, with some interesting vehicles and a couple of hard-hitting CC units, your tactics open wide up, and the army becomes much more fun to play.