What is a "Character" according to Deathleapers "Its after me" rule?

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**insaniak**

juraigamer wrote:rAW I can sit there and tell you that you cannot shoot me unless your models have "Eyes". If you play exactly by raw, it's like shooting the hobby in the foot, then the leg, then torso, then the head.

Pointing out that other rules in the game are broken doesn't actually add anything to the discussion.

Nobody is advocating playing purely by RAW. This is a discussion of the rules. That, by necessity, is going to inclue discussion of the RAW.

**nosferatu1001**

DeathReaper wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:Sigh. Reread page 49 again

"these unique individulas, who stand out from normal characters because they have a personal name and not a title, are called "special characters"

Unless you claim Mephiston isnt a personal name?

If he is a character, despite there being nothing in his rules saying such, then Daemon Princes are daemons as well.

Even if he is a Special character, Deathleaper calls for characters and not Special Characters.

Seriously?

He is a special character because he has a PERSONAL NAME. It says so in the quote above!

Special is a subtype of the model type Character.

DL calls for characters - so that would be Special, Upgrade or Independent then.

Youre clutching at straws, and your "argument" is ignoring clear wording.

And no, this does not mean Daemon Princes are Daemons. Not codex CSM ones at any rate. Entirely different argument and you hopefully know it. Stop trying to muddy the issue

**DeathReaper**

Characters have permission, as per P.47, to be one of two types, IC's or Upgrade Characters.

on P.49 the Unique section allows Special Characters to be either IC's or Upgrade characters.

"Special characters can be either Independent or Upgrade characters" no permission is given for them to be anything other than IC or Upgrade.

Since Mephiston is listed as unique, but does not follow the unique rules in the BRB, since he is not an upgrade or Independent Character, he must follow his own classification, and can't be a character as far as Deathleaper's "Its after me" rule is concerned.

**nosferatu1001**

And, as stated before: your argument is flawed at heart
First of the section states "normally". This instantly allows other classes.

Secondly the rule says CAN BE either. Not, as you keep insisting, "must" be.

You are simply reiterating your flawed argument, without addressing the points which are wrong.

**DeathReaper**

Can be one or the other. That means they can be the first listing, or the second listing, no permission is given for them to be anything other than the two things listed.

The normally, on P.47 allows other classes, but no where are they defined, so the rules there are very vague.

Permissive ruleset says they need to be allowed to be characters. I have shown where Mepheston does not fall into those categories, its on you to show me where he is allowed to be that which I have proven he is not.

**triplare**

Unique models are detailed only one place in the book...the Characters section.

That is all.

**nosferatu1001**

Except, as shown on previous pages, he fits the definition of a special character. He has a unique name, and special character is an allowed other class

I am not going to, pointlessly, reiterate my argument to show you, yet again, your flaws.

I have proven my case to my own satisfaction and, so far, to everyone but yours. Sufficient for me.

**omerakk**

I'm just going to keep reposting this until you tell me why it's ALL wrong.

omerakk wrote:So by your definition, there are NO characters in the game at all, because they are all listed as either IC's, upgraded, unique, or special characters, and not just plain characters.

Absolutely brilliant.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm going to give this one last try before I walk away from it. I'll start by addressing your arguments.

1. Your claim that by the rules, infantry = jump infantry.

Incorrect.

Why?

Infantry and Jump infantry are clearly separated in the rulebook; thats why jotww hurts infantry, but not jump infantry BUT it hurts both bikes AND jet bikes

2. Daemon princes = daemons

Incorrect.

Why?

The codex's and faq's already address this issue.

3. Mephiston is not a character because his profile doesn't say he is a special character, he is listed as unique

Incorrect.

Why?

We have already pointed out the special characters rule in the brb that says a personal named unit is a special character. This same section also goes on to list Commisar Yarrick as an example of a special character.

In his profile, Yarrick is listed as unique infantry. NOWHERE in his profile is he listed as a special character, and yet, the brb specifically uses him as a special character example, and both books are from this edition. He is a special character because he is a personal named unit, and mephiston follows this same, clearly written rule.

4. Even if he is a special character, death leapers ability doesnt work because it says "select a character" not "select a special character"

Incorrect.

Why?

Special, upgraded, independent, and unique are all subcategories of the character class. Death leapers ability targets characters in general, so it affects all subcategories.

Example?

Look at the Jotww again. Look specifically at the space wolves faq:
"Does jotww affect jet bikes?"
"Yes, because jet bikes are a subcategory of bikes"

I don't think I can explain it any better than that.

Actually, don't even bother responding. If you seriously can't understand the concepts of subcategories you should stick to checkers or tic tac toe. The rules require very little reading.

**Kilkrazy**

Every individual model is a character, with characteristics.

Upgrade characters and special characters could not exist if there weren't characters. Thus, whatever unit you are all arguing about is a character and can be targetted.