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I'd have gotten an Executioner instead. It pops off 3 plasma cannon shots and whatever's on the hull per turn. Works best against infantry, heavy infantry, MCs and light transports.

blktom, you got it wrong, the codex says "A leman russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationery may fire it's turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it is normally allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!)..."

So sponsons are not a waste. every weapon can be fired as long as you only moved 6".

With that cleared up, here is my adaptation of your most recent version.

HQ plt: as written
Red/white plt: as written
Blue plt:
lr demo hb sponsons
bane wolf
valkyrie with hb sponsons
and multi rocket pods
vets with hb and 2 flamers

1500 points.

I think you've been focusing too much on anti tank. This list has less lrs, but I think the number of chimeras will counter that. Thinking of the anti infantry element, I added a valkyrie with mrps and heavy bolters and a bane wolf. I think that lr demos are amazing, so I added one to be use as a second wave, following the chimeras to make holes in the enemy line. The valk and the attached vets are for dropping down in key areas or objectives where youre expecting a stampede of greenskins to come. If there is no use like that, then I would use them for last turn objective grabs (grav chutes.)

If you're taking a Vanquisher, please, please take the hull lascannon. It gets to fire if the Vanquisher moves, and has the same core competencies as the main gun. Even if you have to give up an LC on a standard russ, the Vanquisher needs one. That being said, against the toughest armor (AV 14), The Vanquisher still isn't very reliable. Fortunately, for you, most AV14 stuff will be rolling toward your lines, into the teeth of your meltaguns (I'm talking about Land Raiders here). If you want to save some points and consider other options, you could think about Pask in an Exterminator. He'll pretty reliably put 8 S8 hits on vehicles each turn, which won't reliably threaten heavy armor, but it will tear up light armor, and stands a good chance of suppressing fire from firepower-based heavy armor.

In regards to your 55 spare points, that would buy you an Armored Sentinel, which would nicely fill the niche of protecting your tanks from assault. Armor 12 in close combat is pretty damn tough to bring down for a lot of opponents. It will buy you lots of time, against some opponents it will buy you the whole game.

goblet270 wrote:blktom, you got it wrong, the codex says "A leman russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationery may fire it's turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it is normally allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!)..."

So sponsons are not a waste. every weapon can be fired as long as you only moved 6".

No, only one weapon other than the main gun can fire since Def weapons are S4

goblet270 wrote:blktom, you got it wrong, the codex says "A leman russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationery may fire it's turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it is normally allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!)..."

So sponsons are not a waste. every weapon can be fired as long as you only moved 6".

With that cleared up, here is my adaptation of your most recent version.

HQ plt: as written
Red/white plt: as written
Blue plt:
lr demo hb sponsons
bane wolf
valkyrie with hb sponsons
and multi rocket pods
vets with hb and 2 flamers

1500 points.

I think you've been focusing too much on anti tank. This list has less lrs, but I think the number of chimeras will counter that. Thinking of the anti infantry element, I added a valkyrie with mrps and heavy bolters and a bane wolf. I think that lr demos are amazing, so I added one to be use as a second wave, following the chimeras to make holes in the enemy line. The valk and the attached vets are for dropping down in key areas or objectives where youre expecting a stampede of greenskins to come. If there is no use like that, then I would use them for last turn objective grabs (grav chutes.)

That's a pretty poor use for Vets. I haven't really seen anybody give infantry/veteran squads heavy weapons, and flamers aren't the best use for BS4. Heavy bolters don't seem very good either.

I am trying something similar with IG(based on real life). Tactically, it means I have APC's(chimeras) full of Joes, a couple MBT(LRBT) to keep the enemy dead/dying, and Stormin Norman(Commissar Yarrick). If I have the points, sentinels will pull forward patrol, ratlings get cav scout, and ogryns are my Marines

Aesthetically, I can differentiate platoons/squads by their MOS coloring. My artillery(if present) has red cords and unit insignia, cav has yellow, and foot sloggers are pumping the infantry blue.

Sounds like you have a solid plan, and I can't wait to see how this actually works on the table.

HOOAH!

-cgmckenzie

I think your list looks fine. But really the important thing is you understand the weaknesses and strengths of your units and the rules concerning them. Also, as you said, your playing what /you/ want to play.

Good luck, have fun, and get home safe so you can play this dang thing!


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goblet270 wrote:blktom, you got it wrong, the codex says "A leman russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationery may fire it's turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it is normally allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!)..."

So sponsons are not a waste. every weapon can be fired as long as you only moved 6".

Thank you for the clarification. I re-read it again and you are indeed correct. I seemed to have over-looked the 's' on weapons.

goblet270 seems to be misinterpreting the section of the rules he quoted. The key element is not "weapons" it is "normally allowed to fire". Vehicles (lumbering behemoth does not except this) are allowed to fire all weapons if stationary, or one weapon if they moved. Defensives weapons (S4 or less) can also be fired. Lumbering behemoth also allows the turret weapon to fire in addition to other normal weapons. Hence, if a LR moved, it gets 1 weapon plus turret. If it did not move, it gets all weapons plus turret. So sponsons are not useless, but they won't fire if you moved (unless you fire one instead of a hull weapon). Generally, you'll want to keep them moving.

Looks similar to what I am planning on fielding. I broke my troops selection in to a IP (1 PCS 3 IS) and 2 MG vets squads. I plan on marching the IS's towards objectives and using my LR's and command Chimeras to support them once they are in place. I put the vets in Valkyries for tank hunting, dropping the vets on tanks after the initial scout move or an outflank then flying around harrying light infantry with thier multi-laser and the defensive multi rocket pods. I think Pask is vastly over costed on anything but a Vanquisher + LC, since with other variants his increased BS gives you a poor return on investment.

I would be willing to trade one PG from the CCS in order to give Pask and his Vanquisher a LC. I mean, if I'm including Pask so that the Vanquisher is a real tank hunter, then why not go all out and give him the greatest chance to do so? And I don't think a single PG will be missed that much.

I would like to add some Valkeries, but not at the expense of my tanks. The Valkeries will probably just have to wait until I expand to 2,000 points.

A lot of people say I'm putting too much into the anti-tank firepower of the force. But wouldn't that be the point of this army? Having enough big guns to sweep from the field whatever stands before it. Imperial Guard...the Emperor's Sledgehammer!...right?

I'd rather you have gotten an Executioner instead of the Vanquisher.

Emperor's sledgehammer if that pleases you. Sorry about my misinterpretation of lumbering behemoth. I agree about the executioner.

Biophysical wrote:goblet270 seems to be misinterpreting the section of the rules he quoted. The key element is not "weapons" it is "normally allowed to fire". Vehicles (lumbering behemoth does not except this) are allowed to fire all weapons if stationary, or one weapon if they moved. Defensives weapons (S4 or less) can also be fired. Lumbering behemoth also allows the turret weapon to fire in addition to other normal weapons. Hence, if a LR moved, it gets 1 weapon plus turret. If it did not move, it gets all weapons plus turret. So sponsons are not useless, but they won't fire if you moved (unless you fire one instead of a hull weapon). Generally, you'll want to keep them moving.

OK... I was getting confused on the subject myself even though I seemed to have been doing it right. I also know that under the Ordnance rules your not allowed to fire any other weapons, even defensive weapons (pg 58 BRB). So if your Russ has a ordnance weapon, Lumbering Behemoth allows you to fire 2 weapons since your only allowed to fire one weapon normally when you move, including a defensive weapon. This doesn't matter if your moving or standing still. If your standing still, you can fire all of your weapons with a ordnance weapon when your otherwise not allowed to. To give Goblet his due, it is not worded as clear as it probably could be.


Executioner doesn't kill vehicles as well as the Vanquisher, being only Str 7. Big wants to have his tank kill other tanks, so the Executioner, while great against infantry, can't hurt anything AV 14 and has a hard time against AV 12s and 13s. So a Executioner can barily take out a Chimera if you roll a 6 and glances on a 5, even with 3 shots. That means it is a poor choice to do what Big wants it to do. Yeah, after all the vehicles are dead, it really brings something to the plate. I am not knocking it as a support weapon or a assault gun, which is really what it is. But it doesn't kill tanks. You just can't roll a 7 on a D6.

To be honest, he is gambling as it is with not putting the Lascannon on it and going with the HB. I am sure he understands this and it is his choice. I can see why he is doing it, to give the Vanq some anti-infantry power, but it cuts down on his chances to kill vehicles down to that one shot.

The more I look at this list, the more I think I should just go ahead and expand to 2,000 points. That would allow me to include a pair of Valkeries transporting more Vets with MGs, making the force that much more mobile. Also the extra points buffer would let me add sponsons to the Russes, while keeping Pask in his LC-equipped Vanquisher.

I may still consider scrapping Pask and using the points to give the CCS it's fourth PG back and add sponsons to the Russes. But the general opinion is that a Vanquisher is too unreliable without Pask. In that case a Demolisher may be in order. The additional points can either go toward sponsons for all three tanks, or a LC for the Demolisher and sponsons for the remaining Russes. Either option would still disperse some anti-tank throughout the force and contribute to anti-infantry as well.

I'm also starting to think I'm putting WAY too much thought into this list, haha.

Demolisher please. Forget sponsons, keep your tanks moving. You won't be able to fire the sponsons on the move.


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I just don't like Vanquishers.

I'd try playtesting a few games before making any decisions, you can try a Vanquisher, Executioner, or Exterminator (I haven't given up) with or without Pask and see how you like it's anti-tank ability. This will also let you see how you like to run your tanks, if you're moving them a lot, that will give you an indication of whether you want sponsons or not.

BlkTom wrote:Executioner doesn't kill vehicles as well as the Vanquisher, being only Str 7.

Well plasma is never meant for heavy armor. Funny though how a vanquisher actually also has a hard time with vehicles since its basically a bs3 meltagun sans ap1

kenshin620 wrote:

BlkTom wrote:Executioner doesn't kill vehicles as well as the Vanquisher, being only Str 7.

Well plasma is never meant for heavy armor. Funny though how a vanquisher actually also has a hard time with vehicles since its basically a bs3 meltagun sans ap1

Thus why he has Pask in it... and it has a 72" range instead of 6" range.