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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/16 07:18:28
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Obergefreiter
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I have never actually played a game of Warhammer 40K, however, I intend to build a 1,500 point Imperial Guard army upon my return from Afghanistan this summer. I'll start by giving you a little background information on how this army list came into being. I am in the US Army and have always had a love affair with big vehicles covered in armor and giant guns...a self-proclaimed "tread head"...so the Imperial Guard was a fairly easy choice. I tried to organize this army so that it would closely resemble an actual mechanized infantry company one would find within a modern Heavy Brigade Combat Team. To that end, the force itself is broken down into various platoons in an effort to mirror real military doctrine. Similarly, the tactics associated with each platoon, or at least the tactics I envision, are laid out so that each platoon has a specific role that feeds into the force as a whole. Please don't be distracted by the term "platoon" being used to describe mixed elements; that is just my own obsession with military line-and-block charts shining through. There are Heavy Support choices mixed with Fast Attack units, Troops mixed with HQ units, etc. But I believe the force contains all of the mandatory unit selections and is legal according to the rules. If I have done my math correctly, the entire force should add up to exactly 1,500 points. On that note...
B Company, 1st Battalion, 38th Armored Regiment, 10th Cadian Armored Division - "The Rhinos"
Headquarters PLT
CCS - 4x GLs, Chimera w/hull HF, ML
Vet SQD - 3x PGs, Chimera w/hull HF, ML
This element lingers slightly behind the main line and serves two functions. The CCS can act like a mini support element by using their GLs to lend fire support against large infantry formations or light vehicles that may be threatening the line. The commander can stay close enough to subordinate units to pass orders as needed. The Vet SQD functions as a mobile Quick Reaction Force to either plug gaps in the line, race ahead to take an objective, or use their PGs to take on any particularly threatening enemy units.
Red and White PLTs
2x Vet SQD - 3x MM, Chimera w/hull HF, ML each
These two PLTs form the core of the main battle line. They will be positioned just forward of the HQ PLT in a castle style formation. Their job is, simply put, to "hold the line". All those MMs, supported by PGs and GLs from the HQ PLT as needed, should give them a decent punch against armored targets or heavy infantry. The four hull HFs from their Chimeras, supplemented by those of the HQ PLT if necessary, should also allow them to stand their ground against horde infantry. Various SQDs can be syphoned off to take or contest objectives if and when opportunities present themselves.
Blue PLT
1 x Leman Russ Main Battle Tank - BC, w/hull LC, sponson HB
2 x Leman Russ Main Battle Tanks - BC, w/hull LC each, no sponsons
2 x Scout Sentinels - AC each
This element can be a little more flexible depending upon the tactical situation. The tanks can be dispersed along the battle line to provide heavy defensive fire support, or can go on the offensive as part of a coordinated flanking maneuver. Either way, the tanks represent the real "teeth" of the force. Their mission is to knock out heavily armored enemy vehicles and shatter large enemy infantry formations; two tasks for which they are well suited. The main issue is finding a way to protect them from enemy assault. If the tanks are on the offensive, the Sentinels will have to defend their flank; this may mean being used as "tar pits" just to slow down a unit of enemy elite assault infantry long enough for the tanks to safely redeploy. If the tanks are intermingled with the battle line, the Vet SQDs will serve as their protection, allowing the Sentinels to use their ACs to target enemy light vehicles or more heavily armored infantry.
This army will really rely on the combined arms principle. All of the units will have to work together to compensate for their individual weakness, as the units are not very well-rounded. But if the Russes can kill the tough armored threats, and the infantry protect the tanks from being assaulted, and the Chimeras protect the infantry from hordes, then maybe their won't be so many posthumous medals to award at the end of the day. Given all of the armor it is tempting to use this army in a defensive role, but I believe the mobility derived from a completely mechanized force will allow the army to attack just as well. But, as I said, I no actual table top experience, so all of this is just theory backed up by research. Therefore, any critiques, advice, comments etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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"Let's eat, Grandma".
"Let's eat Grandma".
Punctuation saves lives. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/16 10:36:27
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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I like the whole military structure idea. If you can really display it on your models your army could be very fluffy.
I'm not so sure about the effectiveness of grenade launchers in CCS squads. I'd imagine that sniper rifles would be more effective because they can pin.
Does Red and White platoon split the 2 Vet squads listed or do they have 2 Vet squads each? Also by MM, do you mean meltaguns because they can't have multi-meltas.
Are any of your Leman Russes in Blue platoon squadroned? If so, I think they'd be more effective on their own so they can divide their fire up more effectively and make your opponent tie 3 or more units up in trying to knock out your tanks. Also, you should be capitalizing on the fact that your Leman Russes can move and still fire their cannon. I would have dropped the sponson heavy bolters on your first tank. Keep your tanks moving and shooting so that if, god forbid, the enemy finds themselves at your tanks's hull, they'll need a 4+ to hit.
I'm going to assume those Sentinels are outflanking to get side armor shots or contest objectives late game. Otherwise, they're an easy kill point.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/16 11:11:09
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
Finland... the country next to Sweden? No! That's Norway! Finland is to the east! No! That's Russia!
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2 Russes in a 1,500 Armoured Company!?
Which armoured company are you using?
Why do you call it an armoured company?
Here is what I would do:
CCT maybe a demolisher
2 SCTs
3 LRBTs
3 Basilisk Strikes
Some upgrades or a Stormtrooper Squad with the rest of the points.
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Sweet Jesus, Nurgle and Slaanesh in the same box!?
No, just Nurgle and Slaanesh, Jesus will be sold seperately in a blister.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/16 13:10:47
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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He has 3 Leman Russes.
And you could say it was more of a mechanized company with armor support. Chimeras count as tanks too don't they?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/16 13:24:31
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
Finland... the country next to Sweden? No! That's Norway! Finland is to the east! No! That's Russia!
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L_Dawg wrote:He has 3 Leman Russes.
And you could say it was more of a mechanized company with armor support. Chimeras count as tanks too don't they?
# Russes  maybe I missed one. Mechanized company sounds better, because when I think of an Armoured Company, I think of LRBTs
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Sweet Jesus, Nurgle and Slaanesh in the same box!?
No, just Nurgle and Slaanesh, Jesus will be sold seperately in a blister.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/16 14:08:01
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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I really like his list, as I have been kicking around doing the same thing based off of the 1st Marines in WWII, though they would be footsloggers.
I will back up Dawg on your Russes... can't use them if your moving and being assaulted when not moving means the bad guys get free hits on your rear armor. Splitting them up means you can fire on 3 targets. EDIT: Doh, I forgot about Lumbering Behemoth. It still means you have to fire everything on one target though... eh, your already strapped for points...
Same goes with the Grenade Launchers. Here is the reasoning behind it... They are only Str 3 Frags, giving you a 50-50 chance of wounding a guardsman, less if it is tougher target. Nearly everything (95% of the game) will get it's armor save against the frag to.
The Krak is a Str 6 AP4. This means against vehicles you will have a hard time to even hurting AV 10 vehicles (need a 5-6 to penitrate). Against infantry, you will wound, but power armor will still get to save against it.
You are correct in the idea of grouping 4 together to give you the best chance to hit and do damage, but I actually suggest Plasma guns for this. Gives you Str 7 AP 2, meaning it will hurt any Infantry in the game and ignore their armor. This gives you a even better chance to take out light armor (like other Chimeras front AV 12) and if your within 12" you can rapid Fire, giving you 2 shots each gun. Only bad thing? Get's Hot! You have a chance to fry your own guys on a 1 (though you do get your armor save).
I Come out to 1510pts...
295 Platoon HQ (1 HQ, 1 Vet)
620 Red & White Platoon (2 Vets each)
595 Blue (3 Tanks, 2 Sentials)
Right now, I don't know if you would be able to afford the Plasma guns (60pts needed) in your CCS without dropping the HB sponsons (20pts) and a AC Sentinal (40pts). Your GLs will only give you 20pts, but being 10pts over, this will give you only 10pts to play with. A lone Sentinal isn't really worth it, and that 40pts plus the 10pts extra would allow you to buy Pask for one of your tanks.
But, if you /really/ want the Sentinal, you could add a Hunter Killer missile to it or upgrade the AC to a lascannon. I think personally I would go with Pask, but it is your call.
Good luck and come home safe!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/05/16 14:22:47
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/16 14:56:02
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Tower of Power
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Not a bad list.
I'd firstly switch those rubbish grenade launchers out the CCS and add more plasma. The S7 can really help but the AP2 is awesome for killing monstrous creatures and heavy armour infantry i.e Terminators.
Rest of the melta Veterans are all fine.
Leman Russes are ok but I'd try and take a squadron of two Russes if you want tanks then take the other two heavy support choices as Manticores for a missile battery. On your Russes you don't need lascannons btw, nor really the sponsons.
Sentinels are fine as you have them, make sure you outflank them
Oh, word of warning too. Don't listen to some of the advice posted as it is bloody stupid
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/16 14:57:02
warhammer 40,000 tactica and hobby blog - www.imperiusdominatus.com
Want list feedback and advice? e-mail imperiusdominatus@live.co.uk
Blood Angels - 2000 Iron Warriors - 2000 Orks -2000 Imperial Guard - 2000
Eldar - 2000 Hive Fleet Krakken - 2000 Dark Eldar - 2000 Necrons - 2000 Grey Knights - 2000 Daemons - 2000 Ravenwing - 2000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/17 04:50:22
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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BlkTom wrote: I think personally I would go with Pask, but it is your call.
Good luck and come home safe!
Pask on a LRBT seems pretty wasteful.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/17 05:19:28
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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Pask helps his tanks kill other tanks by giving the one he is on BS 4 and giving him +1 on the damage chart. Specially since he can fire the Lascannon and the battlecannon on the same turn due to Lumbering behemoth. I see that as more helpful than a lone Scout Sentinel.
But it is his choice... maybe he loves the Scout Sentinels and wants to use them... they are the closest thing to IG light vehicles since they have nothing like a hummer (which they probably need).
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Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/17 05:45:58
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Guardsman with Flashlight
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First, a word of warning: The right stuff to do in real life isn't always the best choice in 40k.
That being said, that is a pretty solid looking list. I would say drop the lascannons and heavy bolters on you russes and upgrade your CCS to 4x plasma.
Split the tanks into 3 individual units to increase survivability and usefulness. I would personally drop the sentinals to upgrade the LRBTs to Demolishers, but if you want to keep them it isnt a bad move either as the LRBT is still a good tank and you get two additional vehicles on the table.
Just keep in mind that the LRBT is not a good tank hunter, it can take out a vehicle in a pinch, but chances are there will be other targets that it should be firing at.
As an aside: you mention that your 3 tanks that are the teeth of the company, I think you will find that it is really the Vets that will dish out the most pain with the tanks acting as a support unit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/17 06:42:08
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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BlkTom wrote:Pask helps his tanks kill other tanks by giving the one he is on BS 4 and giving him +1 on the damage chart. Specially since he can fire the Lascannon and the battlecannon on the same turn due to Lumbering behemoth. I see that as more helpful than a lone Scout Sentinel.
But it is his choice... maybe he loves the Scout Sentinels and wants to use them... they are the closest thing to IG light vehicles since they have nothing like a hummer (which they probably need).
With 4 squads of Melta Vets in Chimeras? I'm pretty sure he won't need Pask with his +1 to armor pen and BS4. Personally, I think he should keep the hull heavy bolter rather than upgrade to a lascannon.
Chimera's are pretty much the Humvees of the Imperial Guard.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 05:52:34
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Obergefreiter
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Wow, I didn't expect to receive to many replies so quickly, so thanks to all of you. I should probably clear up a few minor points concerning the force as it is currently laid out.
I intend to keep the three Leman Russ's separate in order to ensure I can fire on as many targets as possible each turn. I may consider forming squadrons when I expand the force in an effort to incorporate some Basilisks into the Heavy Support category. The only reason I equipped the lone Russ with HB sponsons was that I found myself with 10 extra points, and thought the sponsons would be better than a single HK missile. Also, it sort of designates that tank as the command element within Blue PLT. However, since sponsons are apparently 20 points I'll just remove them. My only real fear with using hull HBs on the Russ's is that this force is fairly light on anti-armor weapons, and those hull LCs may be my best shot at knocking out enemy tanks. I thought that's what LCs were designed to do?
It seems nearly everyone agrees that GLs are pretty ineffective. Plasma is very lethal, but also expensive in regards to points. Is it possible to equip the CCS with two heavy weapons instead? I believe two ACs or LCs would help add a little more ranged fire power to the force.
I would like to keep the sentinels mainly for their defensive value. I envision them protecting my flanks against fast moving bikers, speeders, etc, and their ACs have sufficient range and strength to handle the job. Also the fact that they could be used to outflank an enemy is a great benefit, even if they simply serve as a distraction for one crucial turn. Such a tactic would mean writing off the poor sentinels, but it would draw a few guns away from the rest of the force. The sentinels are weak, but they still represent two additional vehicles that have to be dealt with. Alternately, I had considered trading them for a single Hell Hound or derivative, provided I have enough points.
Just to clarify, Red and White PLTs consist of two Vet SQDs with two Chimeras each. A single squad isn't really enough to warrant calling it a platoon. I had considered giving each of them a PCS when I expand the army, but it seems that those points could be put toward something a little more lethal. Maybe some Storm Troopers with Valkerie transports?
The rest of it I think is just semantics. I'm sure that saying this is an element from a Cadian Armored Division is incorrect in "40k language". But armor units are where you would typically find mechanized infantry mixed with tanks. You can find it in cavalry units, but "38th Armored Division" sounds better than "38th Cavalry Squadron"...I should know, that's the unit I'm currently in, haha. But mechanized infantry always has a nice ring to it, so perhaps the unit should be re-designated.
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"Let's eat, Grandma".
"Let's eat Grandma".
Punctuation saves lives. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 06:08:08
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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You can just number your Leman Russes and designate a lead tank. GW does a sprue which lets you add additional pieces to your vehicles to make it stand out, like a master vox.
I'm pretty sure 4 squads of Veterans in Chimeras packing 3 meltaguns each would knock out most tanks in a turn.
You can't have 2 heavy weapons in your CCS.
I don't really see any defensive value in your Scout Sentinels. You really should be outflanking or even scouting them forward to take side armor shots at your opponent's transports. You could also experiment with a Hellhound if you want and see which vehicle would suit your style more.
If you're gonna get a PCS, you'll need to complete the platoon by getting 2 Infantry Squads.
While you're reidesignating your unit, give them an awesome nickname. Just for kicks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 06:29:43
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
Finland... the country next to Sweden? No! That's Norway! Finland is to the east! No! That's Russia!
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I'm still voting for 6 russes and 3 basilisk strikes...
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Sweet Jesus, Nurgle and Slaanesh in the same box!?
No, just Nurgle and Slaanesh, Jesus will be sold seperately in a blister.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 16:37:20
Subject: Re:1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Dakka Veteran
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Agree about grenade launchers, HB sponsons and hull lascannons.
If I were new and taking 3 lemans I'd probably start with a bunch of different ones, see how they all do. Like maybe an LRBT, an executioner, a demolisher or an exterminator with pask. All solid choices.
As for scout sentinels, people will argue about them forever if you let them. I for one use the armoured ones. My tip would be to buy your guys in battle force boxes (earning a free sentinel per box) and try them out for yourself. If they work as well as you hope, great.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 20:16:08
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
Finland... the country next to Sweden? No! That's Norway! Finland is to the east! No! That's Russia!
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Also, take conscripts and Chenkov as cover for your troops
Human meatshields tend to work better that expected.
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Sweet Jesus, Nurgle and Slaanesh in the same box!?
No, just Nurgle and Slaanesh, Jesus will be sold seperately in a blister.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 20:42:29
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Guardsman with Flashlight
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You can only include a PCS if you take a regular infantry platoon, so vets cant have one. Lascannons are good for long range light antitank, but you need to go melta against tougher armor. You already have 4 melta vet squads so that should be enough anti-armor. The problem with lascannons on a LRBT it the preffered target of the battle cannon and the lascannon are different.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 22:54:18
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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bloodyclutch wrote:You can only include a PCS if you take a regular infantry platoon, so vets cant have one. Lascannons are good for long range light antitank, but you need to go melta against tougher armor. You already have 4 melta vet squads so that should be enough anti-armor. The problem with lascannons on a LRBT it the preffered target of the battle cannon and the lascannon are different.
He doesns't have a PCS in this list. He just called his different divisions of units "platoons" because of the idea behind them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/18 23:34:34
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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L_Dawg wrote:You can just number your Leman Russes and designate a lead tank. GW does a sprue which lets you add additional pieces to your vehicles to make it stand out, like a master vox.
Tru Dat.
L_Dawg wrote:I'm pretty sure 4 squads of Veterans in Chimeras packing 3 meltaguns each would knock out most tanks in a turn.
Tru Dat. Well, turn 2. It all depends if they rush forward or sit back. 6' range for the Melta is pretty short though. A mobile force like Eldar and Dark Eldar could just outmanuver him without long range AT.
L_Dawg wrote:You can't have 2 heavy weapons in your CCS.
Replace two other Veterans with a Veteran Weapons Team armed with one of the following: CCS HQ section IG Codex
The wording is alittle suspect, and had to read it carefully to agree with Dawg that you can only have one. I honestly thought at first the jist was replace two guys for a heavy and I was going to say yes.
L_Dawg wrote:If you're gonna get a PCS, you'll need to complete the platoon by getting 2 Infantry Squads.
I will guess his thoughts were to replace two Veteran squads with Platoon Infantry Squads (Red and/or White). Yes, will save you points, at least 40pts each. But now your down to one Meltagun and BS 3. I honestly wouldn't replace the Vets if you can help it.
As for Lascannons Big, here is the breakdown. Say your facing a Land Raider or another Russ ( AV 14). Your hull mounted Lascannons have BS 3 so only have a 50% chance to hit (4+). Now you have to beat or at least equal 14 with a Str 9 weapon... so you have to roll a 5-6 to get a real chance to knock it out. Since the Lascannon is a AP 1, you get a +1 on the damage charts, but Glancing blow is a -1 (so a wash), but on a penetration (a roll of 6) you get that +1 on the chart and get a chance to wreck or blow up the vehicle on a 3+.
Your meltaguns used by your Vets hit on a 3+ and if your at half range or less (6") you get an additional d6 (total 2d6) to add to your armor penetration. Even at Str 8, and average roll of 7 still penetrates. Now, there are some things were melta doesn't get the extra d6 and the like, but there is nothing in the game with better than AV 14 (that I know of at least). Meltas do not get the +1 on the vehicle damage chart being AP 2, so you can totally feeb (slang for feeble) out here, but you should be consistantly rolling on the chart with consistant penetration shots.
To conclude, melta weapons are the best AT in the game, point for point. Their drawback is their /very/ short range. Lascannons (if they hit) do give you a chance to penetrate the thickest armor on every/any shot and if you /do/ get lucky and penetrate you have that 50% chance to take out the vehicle. Their range also means vehicles have a harder time avoiding your shots. You will want some lascannons for long range AT, but your limited by either having Vets or having a Platoon with heavy weapons and/or taking heavy weapon squads. Really, for your army build, I think the Russ's are your best bet for filling the role of long range AT. Pask with a Vanquisher Russ is a excellent option for 55pts, but will draw a /ton/ of fire. You could just run a normal Vanquisher though...
He doesns't have a PCS in this list. He just called his different divisions of units "platoons" because of the idea behind them.
Bloody was answering his question about getting a PCS so he could get a HWS.
Just to clarify, Red and White PLTs consist of two Vet SQDs with two Chimeras each. A single squad isn't really enough to warrant calling it a platoon. I had considered giving each of them a PCS when I expand the army, but it seems that those points could be put toward something a little more lethal. Maybe some Storm Troopers with Valkerie transports?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/18 23:48:27
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 08:43:11
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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Actually, you got them mixed up. Lascannons are AP2, meltaguns are AP1.
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Buy Imperial War Bonds
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/20 00:07:00
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Obergefreiter
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Well those are definitely some good pieces of advise. Out of curiosity, what is the total points cost for a bare-bones Vanquisher? Being overseas, I don't have a copy of the Codex handy to work out the point values of my various options, so anybody with a calculator and some free time would be greatly appreciated.
Based on the general opinion of the forum, it seems that the Leman Russ is not really the formidable beast I orignially assessed it to be. It seems that the four Vet SQDs with their MGs, backed up by a wall of Chimeras, can certainly hold their own against most units. The real question is how to go about putting more tank-killing power into the force?
The sentinels are cool models and I'd like to have them, but they seem to be a waste of points, so I should probably part with them. That being said, there's potentially 90 points out there with which to upgrade the existing Russes or field another unit of some sort. What about equipping the Russes with hull PGs? That would allow them to lob BC rounds at infantry and use the PGs against armor. Any remaining points would probably be dispersed by buying a few HK missiles. I read a post concerning IG tactics, and the author claimed a Vanquisher was only about 15 points more than a standard Russ, which could allow me to keep the sentinels. Is that fact or fiction?
One option I was toying with was swapping one Russ for a Vanquisher. That would certainly add an anti-armor threat to the force, but it would probably draw a lot of enemy fire. The amount of fire might be diluted a bit considering there are still six Chimeras and two Russes for the enemy to contend with, and if the Vanquisher lingers near the CCS and Plasma-armed Vet SQD it could be protected fairly well from assault. Another option was to scrap the sentinels and use the remaining points to field a Vanquisher and two Exterminators. The Exterminators could move forward with the Vet SQDs to shoot up infantry and light vehicles with their ACs while the Vanquisher takes on harder targets. I had also considered fielding a Medusa or two, but again, am not sure of their point cost, or if they are even legal for standard play. Any thoughts on these issues?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/05/20 00:21:27
"Let's eat, Grandma".
"Let's eat Grandma".
Punctuation saves lives. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/20 02:00:06
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Guardsman with Flashlight
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If you really want to know, vanq is 155 points base. I suggest not taking it as it really isnt that good. You already have plenty of antitank anyway with all those meltaguns.
The leman russ is a fine tank and a great asset to your force as it puts in heavy armour along with all your transports plus it has good punch as it beats power armour plus the large blast with help you against hoards. I prefer the demolisher variant, but its not a huge increase in ability and it costs more. Many people swear by the Executioner but I find it too expensive. Regardless of your taste, the LRBT, demolisher and executioner are easily the top choices while the others are weaker.
It looks like you really want a vanquisher, It is not as good as it seems, one bs3 shot isnt reliable at all, its not even ap1. As I said before YOU HAVE ENOUGH ANTITANK.
Outflanking scout sentinals with autocannons going for side armour shots isn't super competitive, but it is fun and adds variety, If you want to drop them and add more to tanks, upgrade them to executioners, or demolishers if you prefer the big shot.
Tanks cant take hull PG, and PGs aren't a primary anti-tank weapon anyway.
Medusas are legal, but It is generally better to go all tanks or all artillery instead of a mix. Automatically Appended Next Post: samwellfrm wrote:bloodyclutch wrote:You can only include a PCS if you take a regular infantry platoon, so vets cant have one. Lascannons are good for long range light antitank, but you need to go melta against tougher armor. You already have 4 melta vet squads so that should be enough anti-armor. The problem with lascannons on a LRBT it the preffered target of the battle cannon and the lascannon are different.
He doesns't have a PCS in this list. He just called his different divisions of units "platoons" because of the idea behind them.
I was referring to a later post where he mentioned the possibility of adding a PCS to his vets, while he may have meant another vet squad and call it a command squad, he used the terminology PCS, so I just wanted to make sure
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/20 02:02:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/20 03:13:36
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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My bad, man. I should have read what you were replying to.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/20 04:39:26
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Obergefreiter
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A lot of people have commented that the four Vet SQDs equipped with so many MGs gives this force sufficient anti-tank capability. I know MGs are potent weapons, which is why I opted to field so many of them. Even Vets aren't worth much when it comes to close combat, so I wanted to ensure the core of my force could put up a good scrap if pressed by enemy assault units or tanks. However, MGs are handicapped by a lack of range and I don't want to wait until enemy armor is within 6in of my line to knock them out. I would much rather be able to defeat enemy tanks at range, then allow the Vets with Chimera support to mop up opposing infantry.
I like the option of trading a Russ for an Annihilator rather than a Vanquisher. The twin-linked LCs on the Annihilator seem like they would generate more hits even with BS3, and more hits equates to more potential dead tanks. The Vanquisher boasts more one-shot kills, but only hits with half its shots. So that's the great question: more hits or more guaranteed kills?
The good news though, it is seems that with either option, I can scrape up enough points to upgrade one of the Russes and still keep the sentinels. More anti-tank, and more vehicles to work with...the potential best of both worlds.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/21 04:10:24
"Let's eat, Grandma".
"Let's eat Grandma".
Punctuation saves lives. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/20 06:15:17
Subject: Re:1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Dakka Veteran
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I think everyone would feel more comfortable if they could kill every tank by lascannon fire. Most people go for meltas though, because after you get three vendettas, it's tricky getting more lascannons whilst retaining mobility and points.
Executioners don't have twinlinked LCs. If you really want to try a vanquisher, give it a hull lascannon. That way you're statistically likely to get one good hit per shooting phase. If you add in pask, they'll be at s10 and s9+2d6 against vehicles and they both get bs4. It's an alright tank hunter, but expensive. Depending on what kind of vehicles you want to hunt, you could also put pask in an exterminator, making 4x (twin-linked) s8 shots and 3x s6 from the hull HB. Or an s10 from a hull LC.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/20 09:36:19
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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I sent you a PM with some of your requested information. Hopefully that will allow you to make the choices you want to make concerning the Russes. I still say you want to seriously consider long range AT.
Thanks Dawg for the correction on the Ap values... my mistake.
I still think you will want to take any extra points and replace those Grenade Launchers since they really don't do what you want them to do. Plasma here would be an extra 40pts though, Melta is an extra 20pts (counting the 5pts each that the GLs already cost).
This should help you too...
Lumbering Behemoth:
A LR that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapon it is usually allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!). However, a LR travelling at cruising speed can only move up to D6 + 6" - roll every time it moves this speed.
Ordnance weapons pg 58 BRB
Firing a massive ordnance weapon requires the attention of all the guners of the vehicle, so no other weapons may be fired that turn (not even defensive weapons!). In return, they are better at penetration armor (see pg 60). Unless their profile specifies otherwise, all ordnance blast weapons use the large blast marker.
Ordnance weapons and armor penetration pg 60 BRB
When you roll to penetrate a vehicle's armor with an ordnance weapon, roll two dice instead of one and pick the highest result!
Short and dirty...
Your Russes will lag behind your Chimeras becase it can't move 12" every turn. If you Cruise you can't fire anything anyways, so your probably just moving 6" a turn or staying stationary. If you move 6" you can only fire one weapon, but Lumbering Behemoth allows you to fire two weapons... your turret and one other weapon. Sponsons do not count as one weapon, but two. If you have an Ordnance gun, even when your stationary you can only fire one other gun due to the Ordnance rules and the Behemoth rules (which allows you to fire a single extra gun when ordnance says you can't). So be careful on what you add onto a LR based on what the main gun is. If the main gun isn't an ordnance gun you could add sponsons and fire them, your turret, and your hull mounted weapon (even a pintle mounted weapon) if you don't move.
A base Russ with the battle cannon and a Heavy Bolter is not a bad vehicle. If you move 6" you can fire both weapons every turn (at the same target though). The battle cannon, couting as ordnance, gets to roll 2d6 (and pick the highest) for AV penetration at Str 8. Sure, it can only glance another Russ head on, but it is a chance (since you get two chances to roll that 6). But if you want them to be long range AT, yeah, you probably want to upgrade those heavy bolters to lascannons and seriously consider the Vanquisher. Just understand the Vanquisher lacks in a anti-infantry role. Guard and Eldar are alot alike... units do specific jobs and need other units doing other jobs to support them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/20 10:07:48
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/25 05:18:08
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Obergefreiter
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Well, after some consideration I think I'll trade one of the Russes for a Vanquisher equipped with a hull LC. I really like the idea of having the ability to make one-shot kills on virtually any enemy armored threat I may come across. That still allows the standard Russes to engage less well-armored targets and large infantry formations. Additionally, having three LCs on the field gives me some flexibility as to what targets to engage, as well as providing the off-chance to crack a few enemy tanks with some lucky LC shots.
I could sacrifice a sentinel and get the points necessary to outfit my CCS with PGs, but running around with a single sentinel seems like a waste of 40 points. So that would lead to the logical conclusion that the last sentinel should also be scraped for points. Which raises the question of what do you add to this force with a potential 45 extra points? HK missiles are a possibility for the four Chimeras from Red and White PLTs. Opting for hull HBs on the two standard Russes would likely allow me to add at least a few PGs to the CCS, but would that be more beneficial?
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"Let's eat, Grandma".
"Let's eat Grandma".
Punctuation saves lives. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/25 08:48:01
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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With a Vanquisher, you're pining your hopes on a single BS3 shot hitting. That's a coin flip mate. For the points, a Vet Squad in a Chimera will probably serve you better and that has 3 meltaguns at BS4.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/26 02:38:18
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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I might have some suggestions for you, as I am looking into a rules question concerning Cammo netting for your tanks. They are 15pts a pop and give your tanks Stealth if they don't move. I am looking into if this piece of wargear allows you to just park in a 'woods' and get a cover save against penetrating/glancing shots. The standard rule is they need 50% blocking line of sight to get cover.
And yes, making the CCS all plasmaguns would be an improvement. I would even suggest carapace armor for them so if you do get a 'Get's Hot!' result you get a 50/50 chance to save. It is 20pts though... if you can't afford it, don't sweat it.
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Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/29 06:46:47
Subject: 1,500-point IG Armored Company: critiques requested
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Obergefreiter
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Alright, I think I've managed to rework the army list to include some of what has been recommended, and some of what I want. I finally decided to scrap the sentinels and work some other things around to use their points toward other items. Once it was all said and done, I managed to accumulate 130 points. That being said the new, re-designated unit is as follows:
1st Squadron, 38th Armored Cavalry Regiment
HQ PLT:
CCS w/4x PGs, Chimera w/ML and HF
Vet SQD w/3x PGs, Chimera w/ML and HF
RED/WHITE PLT:
4x Vet SQD w/3x MG, 4x Chimera w/ML and HF
BLUE PLT:
2x LRMBT w/LC, no sponsons
1x Vanquisher w/HB, HS, Commander Pask
The upgraded HQ PLT has dropped the CCS's GLs, and now boasts 7 PGs. This should drastically increase their overall lethality, especially against tough armored infantry, particularly when they get to rapid fire.
The line PLTs seem solid as they are, so they remain the same.
Blue PLT saw some of the most significant, and controversial changes. The two LRMTs remain the same, and will be there to support the line PLTs. They can use their BCs to target enemy infantry, while serving to draw some guns away from the Vet SQDs. I left the LCs on in order to disperse some anti-tank ability beyond the Vanquisher and, using Lumbering Behemoth, they have a good chance to crack enemy armor up to AV12.
Now, the controversial part; Commander Pask and his Vanquisher. I wanted the Vanquisher for it's ability to kill AV14 vehicles from range. Pask is a costly element for such a small force, but his inclusion makes the Vanquisher the ingredient I really wanted. He offers the ability to kill the most heavily armored tanks, from extreme range with a certain degree of reliability. I gave it a HB and HS so that, in the event there are no more enemy tanks to kill, the Vanquisher can still serve in some anti-infantry capacity.
I had considered fielding a Demolisher without Pask instead. The Demolisher offers the heavy-duty tank killing ability I want, but without Pask its accuracy comes into question, and having an AV14 vehicle just 24in away is not the time to be missing. With the points I would save on Pask I could equip the Russes with HB sponsons to increase their anti-infantry capacity even more. But, Lumbering Behemoth won't allow me to fire the BC and the sponsons together, so what's the point? And besides, what else do you do with 55 points? A single sentinel? Five HK missiles? I'll probably end up painting an extra Demolisher turret so I can swap them around and experiment with the different variants but otherwise, I think this will be the list.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/29 06:48:51
"Let's eat, Grandma".
"Let's eat Grandma".
Punctuation saves lives. |
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