Orks, can we beat Grey Knights and other ork help!

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**Khorne Flakes**

svendrex wrote:here is a Short list of things that will hurt the orks

1) Orks do not have any Psy Defense.

a) Fortitude: subtle, but is means that the masses of S7-8 firepower that you have is less effective. You have very limited AP1 to counteract this. This is going to be a pain.
b) Shrouding: cover saves on vehicles means your mass S7-8 firepower is even less effective now.
c) Purifying Flame: not so sublte. Means your Boys will not do so great in combat anymore. Grey Knights have the tools to win a shooting war as well, so it is going to be tough either way.
d) Force Weapons: Not so bad for Boys, terrible for Nobs. They rely on wound allocation for durability. A 5++ save in not enough. These guys are not going to do so well in combat either.

There is not really much you can do against any of this. You have no option for psy defence. The main thing here is that combat is very dangerous for Orks against GK, especially Purifiers, when they can reliably cast spells.

Shooting seems to be our only chance, but GK have a lot of firepower at the 24" range, where most ork shooting is as well. It will be tough.

2) Vindicare

This guy looks a little scary, but if your mobs of boys have cover, it is not so bad. You could get unlucky and loose your KFF, Nob, or other buried character, but I do not think it is the worst thing ever. You can kill this guy, it is not so bad really.

And to add to the fact that we have access to 6 dreads with str 8 TLACS and STR10 AP1 strikes

**terranarc**

Alerian wrote:
terranarc wrote:oh man burnas in wagon is so amazing. infinite wounds ftw.

Why ghazgull though? I can see his EA being useful as well as one turn 2+ invul but he's still hit and wounded on 4's and the GK player could just allocate everything to him. Striking last in this case seems to be quite a bummer when hes not waghing.

LOL...if you have to ask WHY to use Ghaz, I must question if you really do play Orks

The only reasons not to use Ghaz are as follows:
1. You need 2 KFFs (kanwall and some BW spam lists)
2. You really, really want a Biker Speedfreaks list (I don't know why, but someone might), meaning you need Wazdakka and a KFF mek
3. You don't have the points for him

Ok firstly, you got me there haha. That was pretty funny I admit.

But seriously:
For any single model past 200 points, I get cringy about especially for dexes where everything is low cost. I usually run 2 KFFs with burnas so I can

out of my wagons.
I mean, when I take HQs, I always try to get HQs that can do something that the rest of my army can't do. Boss is nice but all you get is a S10 PF. Also I'm pretty meched up so I see no point for 6" fleet at all. But again, why?
At 225 points, W4, I1, 2+5++, he's likely to get owned by power weapons except for that one turn hes 2++. Since he's got EA and orks have no psychic defense, the GKs will just hammerhand it up and again, hit and wound on 4's while leaving you with a 5+ invul. I dunno, if he was like 175 I'd take him but at 225, he costs me another wagon + mekboy, a giant shoot squad, a big loota squad, ect.

Now, if you did pure kanwall, I can see why he would be useful. That 6" fleet is basically you get to decide when the charge happens. Though its kind of a pita that deffdreads and kanz don't get wagh too.

But seriously, aside from kanz/sloggin hoards, I really can't see why you would use him.

**necronsftw**

I think I could configure a list to work with outhim. The only downfall is a loss of combat, but also I would like to have some form of an all comerers list. For example I can bring this list to a tournament and not get stomped by a few lists and beat one or two. What if i load all 20 man ork squads into all my BWs would this be good?

**Jidmah**

necronsftw wrote:Wow. That was a ton of text to read. To begin with this is challenging for the new ork player to understand who is correct on this, I dont want to buy 45 lootas then realize I only need 15. Or something along the lines of that. I assume that BW lists are the way to go. With those lootas what about 3 squads of 10, Do you think that will help spread the amount of shots to different targets. Ghaz and the nobs seems to be a very good hammer unit, using that as the front of my army, I feel like I need something in the other wagon, or maybe some buggies. This is up to the pros on this one.

The biggest problem of lootaz is the missing boss pole, combined with usual ork ld7. Because of that you usually take either 5 or 15. If you lose two out of five and they run away, that's not much of a loss, while 15 are fearless in the beginning and will take some concentrated fire to get them down back to ld7. If you really want that many lootaz, you could go with two squads of 5 and one of 15.