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yeah, Fortitude is here to stay.

Get over it, have a good cry if you have to, but get it over with and move on.

More pew-pew less QQ seems to be the order of the day on this one.

fortitude gave me a good laugh when Grey Templar's Dread Peril and stunned itself again

Fortitude affects mostly armies who lack high strength weapons to pen. Against AV11, really all you need is enough long range S8+ and you should be good.

GKs are only expensive marines that runs in squads of no more than 5. Strike squads can only bring 1 psycannon, you just have worry about the rhinos with purifiers and psyrfledreads. GK is good mostly in high point games(1850+), they kinda struggle in escalation tournaments. And if a GK list spams mostly henchman than thats even better for fragile troop armies like IG, eldar, and etc.

SOFDC wrote:

How is fortitude changing your game?

It isn't. I expect every enemy armored vehicle to be EA equipped.

Shoot it till it wrecks or explodes.

Don't want it shooting? Shoot its guns off.

1) Except Fortitude is better than EA, it allows you to ignore shaken and stunned. It's also 5 points cheaper than EA

2) Because there's a skill involved in rolling on the damage chart.

With that being said, I don't think it's OP. By the very nature of the Grey Knights, there's going to be less vehicles, because everything else is more costly. Instead of having say 6 razorbacks in an army like Blood Angels, GK would have 4-5.

Eldar on the other hand LOVE Fortitude

I having problems playing IG against Grey Knights at the 2k level (practicing for Nova) because of fortitude. I just get outshot when the Grey Knight unstun and unshake from fortitude and I can't do anything about it.

IG have no psychic defense unless you take a Witch Hunter Inquisitor ally who is likely going away soon according to the rumor of a pdf codex soon. The Primaris Psyker really should have had a 24 inch range hood. He is pretty useless.

Fortitude is a bit broken given its cheap cost and not all armies have psyker defense. Without psyker defense fortitude is just stupid if you roll bad for damage results they ignore 90% of shaken or stunned.

Sometimes you roll bad for damage results and if that happens you just lose versus Grey Knights when they just fortitude and shoot you where versus everyone else stunned and shaken stops them from shooting.

I going to add psyker defense and try and add some more shooting to my IG list and give it a few games and see how that goes.

IG is actually well equiped to deal with GK vehicles, what with plenty of melta guns, lascannons and various ordinance weapons.

Actually it feels kind of balancing to me. There's been a strong drift since the start of 5th edition away from long-ranged shooting for antitank, since it's relatively ineffective. GKs have only medium-short range shooting, except on dreads, so they'd have the same crippling disadvantage in this codex that they had in the last. Fortitude is something that forces the enemy to get close, inside their range, to be effective with meltaguns (since it makes long-range shooting even less effective), preserving the medium-short playstyle of the army while making them viable.

GK are meant to be an elite codex, there troops and tanks are fewer but stranger. I’m ok with that. Yea it makes there tanks hard to deal with, but how many are they running?

if you think its that broken then just concede the game and dont play vrs grey knights. simple. whining about it online wont change your opinion about it, and less likley to change someone elses, so you have 2 options. put up and shutup, or dont play vrs it. nobody forces you to play against grey knight lists. and if your entered in a tourney expect the best quality of "fromage du stink" from everyone.

Seems like the ways to deal with fortitude include
1. Add psyker defense if your army has access to psyker defense if you don't have it already.
2. Playing as if every Grey Knight vehicle has extra armor
3. Change your army list to a more shooty build with more long range high strength weapons if possible so you get more penetrating hits to even out the effects of fortitude.

Melta really isn't the answer to fortitude as you first have to get within 12 and it puts you in 12 inches of Marines with Power weapons which is not where you want to be since you might be receiving the charge. Assault between Grey Hunters and Purifiers/Grey Knight Strike Squads really are reliant on who gets the charge and if there were any casualties to shooting or vehicle explosions and are pretty deadly for both sides.

The Grey Knight armies I been playing against have 5-6 dreadnoughts and either grey knights in rhinos with psy cannons or henchmen in razorbacks or a combination of the two which is significant ranged fire versus my list with 5 las/plas razors and 3x 5 long fangs with 4 missles. I might remove the thunderwolves for land speeder typhoons and second rune priest or Njal for better anti psyker. Still torn about changing over wolf scouts to dreads since I really like the outflank and rear assault for objective missions.

This is coming from a sisters player, but how much does EA cost on all of your codexes? Our EA is only 5 points, and an additional 3 for smoke launchers....

On the same note I really disagree with this fortitude deal being game breaking. I've played a few GK armies that used fort against me. Yes it was annoying, but never had any issues where it was more annoying than say a Sister rhino with EA or a demonically possesed land raider. Most of the time if I did knock the stun and he got his rhino to move again all that would happen is it would drive up and unload it's troops which is exactly how my army works to. Half the time I end the game with 4 metal boxes cruising around tank shocking and picking up people. They are mostly there for getting people places not shooting really

I have a question: If they suffer a psycic misshapp, it resolves as a glancing hit yeah? Does it kick in before or after the fortitude resolves?

I am just wondering as glancing would then suck for the tyranids as he could quite easaly pull of the psycic power and nulefy it.

Could somebody please enlighten me? :-)

hmmm, thats an interesting question.

to YMDC!!!

Fortitude is good but not broken, any take all comers list should have anti-psychic powers and/or enough AP1 to shoot it until it explodes. It just takes away the ability to shake/stun and move on to the next target like many gunlines do, imho it's a power that keeps the gunlines honest while giving GK the resilience they need to set them apart from standard MEQ. I have played with it and against it.

BladeWalker wrote:Fortitude is good but not broken, any take all comers list should have anti-psychic powers and/or enough AP1 to shoot it until it explodes.

As a Black Templars player, it is my solemn duty to inform you that everyone doesn't get psychic defense.

Oh, and relying on melta to pop transports is counter-productive as you have to get close, letting the transport get closer to it's intended target.

Well, as Black Templar, don't you want to get close to your enemy anyway, melta or no melta?

Grey Templar wrote:yeah, Fortitude is here to stay.

Get over it, have a good cry if you have to, but get it over with and move on.

Agreed!

With alot of players having mec armies now it makes sense to include a few more melta guns in your armies. Fortitude is useless if you destroy a vehicle on the first shot of the game. Having 4 melta in a army is not overkill and it isn't even many points. You should theoretically destroy or at least immobalise most vehicles every time you hit them with a melta.

meltas has a max ranged of 12", you will get tore up by psycannons in rhinos by then. Samething with psychic hood, GK psycannons will already be in range to hit you. Best way is to bring more long range high S weapons, you cant go wrong with spamming S8+ against GK.

starsdawn wrote:Well, as Black Templar, don't you want to get close to your enemy anyway, melta or no melta?

Between TH Cyclones, Typhoons and lasplas squads I think I'd rather not voluntarily walk into 24" range...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BladeWalker wrote:Fortitude is good but not broken, any take all comers list should have anti-psychic powers and/or enough AP1 to shoot it until it explodes.

As a Black Templars player, it is my solemn duty to inform you that everyone doesn't get psychic defense.

Oh, and relying on melta to pop transports is counter-productive as you have to get close, letting the transport get closer to it's intended target.

But you can take MM Attack Bikes or Speeders, there are MM on your Raiders and you can put tons of melta in your squads if you want... that's why I said and/or... plus if you play BT and you don't want to get in charge range I'm not sure what's going on.

BTs might want to hold an objective or stay back and weaken the enemy with shooting first(tank-hunting Clyclone missiles anyone?)

SonsofVulkan wrote:meltas has a max ranged of 12", you will get tore up by psycannons in rhinos by then. Samething with psychic hood, GK psycannons will already be in range to hit you. Best way is to bring more long range high S weapons, you cant go wrong with spamming S8+ against GK.

If you have a full 10 man squad of marines lets say with a meltagun then you are more than likely to make it within 12" as you don't have to take wounds on the melta. One psycannon out the top hatch woudl never kill the whole squad.

I was also thinking of the melta on something like a LR crusader or gunship

BladeWalker wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BladeWalker wrote:Fortitude is good but not broken, any take all comers list should have anti-psychic powers and/or enough AP1 to shoot it until it explodes.

As a Black Templars player, it is my solemn duty to inform you that everyone doesn't get psychic defense.

Oh, and relying on melta to pop transports is counter-productive as you have to get close, letting the transport get closer to it's intended target.

But you can take MM Attack Bikes or Speeders, there are MM on your Raiders and you can put tons of melta in your squads if you want... that's why I said and/or... plus if you play BT and you don't want to get in charge range I'm not sure what's going on.

The only melee unit we have that's still worth a damn is our assault terminators. The Crusader Squads really suffers because the PF only gets one base A, as well as grenades costing extra. Thus, the most competitive Templar lists maximises our excellent shooting and more or less only assaults as counter-charges.

Regarding melta weapons, our rhinoes are more expensive than GK razorbacks. Driving MM speeders into firing range means that the GK get to shoot back and probably destroy the speeder. As for the LRCs being used as an anti-tank platform: sure, it works, but the LRC is 5 times as expensive as a psybolt razorback. That's hardly a solution.

That said, considering the amounts of krak and lasfire I can pour into transports each turn, I'm not too worried. The point I was trying to make was that not everyone has access to psychic defense, and that melta isn't the optimal anti-transport weapon. Stopping transports at range is what Autocannons, Missile Launchers and Lascannons are for!