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i hate tailoring lists to a single opponent unless both parties are explicitly doing so. At least you are not proxying. I give you credit for that at least.

the moral of this thread is that different people like different units.

learn from this, people.

for what it's worth, i don't have a problem with defilers, and i think they're pretty well tailored to beating up orcs. things that might make them a negative against other armies are good against orcs.

they're expensive models is the only problem and it's best to spam them if you're going to use them. bs3 doesn't matter much with template, and if your opponent is running a KFF battlewagon wall you're pretty much assured to scatter into something. BS3 doesn't matter much for the reaper AC, either, as it's twin linked, and doesn't matter for the HF, either. two or three battlecannons can demolish any loota squads in a turn, and then pin them for good measure.

hemingway wrote:the moral of this thread is that different people like different units.

learn from this, people.

for what it's worth, i don't have a problem with defilers, and i think they're pretty well tailored to beating up orcs. things that might make them a negative against other armies are good against orcs.

they're expensive models is the only problem and it's best to spam them if you're going to use them. bs3 doesn't matter much with template, and if your opponent is running a KFF battlewagon wall you're pretty much assured to scatter into something. BS3 doesn't matter much for the reaper AC, either, as it's twin linked, and doesn't matter for the HF, either. two or three battlecannons can demolish any loota squads in a turn, and then pin them for good measure.

Well said. I'd also add that their av12 armor that is usually a laughing stock for such an expensive vehicle is a lot harder to penetrate for some of these ork armies as well. Especially if they're kept at a distance. Great points.

All valid points guys. Thanks so much for all the suggestions.


I was thining about ACs as well as i quite like them, and with Ork armour values and saves being low they actually become a good multi-role gun against that army.

akaean wrote:

Thats really the only chaos marine set up that can compete with 5 plagues with 2 meltas. Yes 5 chaos marines with 1 melta is cheaper than 5 plague marines with 2 meltas, but at the end of the day you really want the 2 melta shots- for a higher chance of doing their job and wrecking a tank.

EDIT: I also really don't understand all this squad will be suiciding nonsense... in objective games you certainly aren't going to suicide all of your troops (at least if you like winning), and having t5 fnp units holding your objectives is great...

Those are my points entirely, anyway..

List wise why have Plague Marines got flamers? They'll probably go last in assault and die as flamers are for assaulting units. Plague Marines are better at shooting and plasma guns more than anything thanks to feel no pain


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hemingway wrote:
they're expensive models is the only problem and it's best to spam them if you're going to use them. bs3 doesn't matter much with template, and if your opponent is running a KFF battlewagon wall you're pretty much assured to scatter into something. BS3 doesn't matter much for the reaper AC, either, as it's twin linked, and doesn't matter for the HF, either. two or three battlecannons can demolish any loota squads in a turn, and then pin them for good measure.

Well my point with Defilers is they aren't really that good at shooting or combat. BS3 doesn't affect a template that much over BS4 but why it firing at Battlewagons which most likely will have the front facing? If you're shooting the reaper cannon than you're not firing the battlecannon. If you're firing the heavy flamer means you're going to be assaulting (which the Defiler isn't that good at) and you will be locked in combat (or destroyed) not firing that battlecannon.

There's the point of difference of opinion but there is also the point of somethings just been plain rubbish and that is the Defiler

Ok, had the game last night......did not go well.



he had a sqaud of 3 Kans, 3 Trukks, 3 DeffKoptas, 3 Bikers, a squad of burnas, 1 of Lootas, 1 of Nobs and 3 squads of Boyz, one of which was 30 strong.

My Missile launcher havocs woefully underperformed. Teh whoel game they only managed to kill 8 Boyz total. My Dread killed 2 boys and a single Nob before being charged and Powerklawed apart.

his Koptas used ther scout a TB move to get a turn 1 charge into the rear of my Vindicator and took out the cannon before it had a chance to fire.

We ended up rollgin for an annihilation mission whihc left my small plague marine squad with nothgin to do, they roleld aroudn in their rhino immobilizing Kand which then rolled to repair themselves the followign turn!!

i did end up killing off all the Trukks and 2 squads of Boyz and the bikers by turn 3. But then he got with WAAAGH range and charged in the 30 strong Boyz, the nobs and the Burnas and kans. By Turn 5 all i had left was an immobilzed Rhino and my Havocs.

My DP preformed pretty well, single handedly killign off a full squad of Boyz after their trukk died and weathering 2 turns of assault from the 30 boyz mob and killiing off about 10 of them untill eventually sheer weight of number took him down.

The missile launcher really let me down. A big part fo this was due to the fact that he didn't bunch up his orks, but had them all abotu an inch apart, so each blast template coudl only hit 2 or 3 models a pop. Annoying.

Best performing weapon of the game?.......Flamers. My Rhino moved 6"and fired a combi flamer and 2 flamers from the firing ports and roasted a 10 strong Boyz squad in one go.