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johnscott10 wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:

johnscott10 wrote:

No you dont, the guild I was with is owned by one of my friends that I know personally, and it was mostly a casual guild we were still doing hard mode raids, sure we didnt get any of the "you guild was 1st to kill Lich King" feats of strength. You dont have to nolife raids just to progress.

Well, I am glad you found a guild like that, because most of the ones I've been in are most definitely the opposite.

However, I must say that most of the raids in WotLK were not nearly as difficult as some of the new ones on Cataclysm.

Basically this boils down to... find yourself a guild that doesn't want to raid all the time so you still have time for all the other stuff you want to do. I never managed to find one.

Yea thats one of the benifits of being introduced to Wow by a casual guild owner.

I think a big issue with guilds is that many people who play WoW are younger and dont have a whole lot of money. Couple this with the fact that you have to pay 15$ a month to play and people will want to play as much and as hardcore as possible to get the most out of their money. $15 a month is not much but it instills a need to get as much done each month as humanly possible sort of feeling that causes the hardcore/douchebag effect that plagues the majority of guilds out there.

My friend and I were looking into the jumpgate evolution that might be coming out in the near future. Something that caught my eye is that you dont pay a flat $15 fee each month, you pay based on the time you put into the game. This would be an excellent system for alot of people, primarily the more casual gamers, but it may not work for the more hardcore gamers. Simply not paying a flat $15 fee would eliminate the stress of trying to get your money worth out of the game each month and would probably make for a more enjoyable experience overall.

Minecraft: I actually have a lot of good things to say about this one. The reason I left this one is because I realized that I was spending hours building relatively small things... and that's all the game was. Survivor mode is a joke, buildings have no technical purpose other than that you make believe that they do. I might as well play with my 15 year-old Lego blocks. It's faster that way. Plus, once I build something, then what? Explore someone else's giant and pointless bridge to nowhere?

I don't think you can label Minecraft as an MMO, it has online yes, but lots of games do, that's like calling GTA 4 or Halo reach an MMO.

Well, semantics, ect.

It's got more than 4 players doing something besides just shooting each other.

I'm on an MC server with just three people (including me)

KingKodo wrote:

Spoiler:

johnscott10 wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:

johnscott10 wrote:

No you dont, the guild I was with is owned by one of my friends that I know personally, and it was mostly a casual guild we were still doing hard mode raids, sure we didnt get any of the "you guild was 1st to kill Lich King" feats of strength. You dont have to nolife raids just to progress.

Well, I am glad you found a guild like that, because most of the ones I've been in are most definitely the opposite.

However, I must say that most of the raids in WotLK were not nearly as difficult as some of the new ones on Cataclysm.

Basically this boils down to... find yourself a guild that doesn't want to raid all the time so you still have time for all the other stuff you want to do. I never managed to find one.

Yea thats one of the benifits of being introduced to Wow by a casual guild owner.

I think a big issue with guilds is that many people who play WoW are younger and dont have a whole lot of money. Couple this with the fact that you have to pay 15$ a month to play and people will want to play as much and as hardcore as possible to get the most out of their money. $15 a month is not much but it instills a need to get as much done each month as humanly possible sort of feeling that causes the hardcore/douchebag effect that plagues the majority of guilds out there.

My friend and I were looking into the jumpgate evolution that might be coming out in the near future. Something that caught my eye is that you dont pay a flat $15 fee each month, you pay based on the time you put into the game. This would be an excellent system for alot of people, primarily the more casual gamers, but it may not work for the more hardcore gamers. Simply not paying a flat $15 fee would eliminate the stress of trying to get your money worth out of the game each month and would probably make for a more enjoyable experience overall.

Ok so I spoilered most of the previous stuff.

Ok so while I can see this "pay as you play" being worked into a game. Im just not sure how it would be fully implemented as to how it would make payments. I do have 2 possible theories though:

Would it charge for full hours played or round it up to the nearest hour?? As it stands there is 720 hours per 30 day month, so 15/720 equates to roughly 0.02 (cents??) per hour. So by this system if player A played say a total of 24 hours over a 30 day period they would be paying 0.50, Now take player B who plays say 96 hours in 30 days, they pay 1.92. If it was worked like this then the charge per hour would need to be changed to actually make the game profitable as you cant spend 720 hours straight on a game.

OR

Would it be more like mobile credit, it depletes at it is used and say you get 360 hours of game time per $15, so that would deplete 0.04 every hour.

Dont get me wrong I think a "pay as you play" system would be great but there seems to be a fine line that you need to hit otherwise either casual/hardcore gamers are going to feel a bit ripped off but also keep the game profitable for the company. Its a tricky one to hit it seems.

From what I have read, they are working it like a pre-purchase credit system. You would buy hours of game time and they would be used up as you play. They may also use a standard $15 per month charge for infinite hours, not really sure. I have no idea what numbers they are looking at though. Some companies (such as EVE) target a nich audience and do very very well for themselves. I could see jumpgate evolution doing the same thing, targeting the casual gamers who still want a polished game but dont want to overpay. They may miss out on the more hardcore gamers, but they may not need that business to stay profitable.

Again, I have no idea as to the actual numbers they will implement or the audience they will target, but they really dont need to attract every group of gamers to stay afloat.

johnscott10 wrote:

KingKodo wrote:

Spoiler:

johnscott10 wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:

johnscott10 wrote:

No you dont, the guild I was with is owned by one of my friends that I know personally, and it was mostly a casual guild we were still doing hard mode raids, sure we didnt get any of the "you guild was 1st to kill Lich King" feats of strength. You dont have to nolife raids just to progress.

Well, I am glad you found a guild like that, because most of the ones I've been in are most definitely the opposite.

However, I must say that most of the raids in WotLK were not nearly as difficult as some of the new ones on Cataclysm.

Basically this boils down to... find yourself a guild that doesn't want to raid all the time so you still have time for all the other stuff you want to do. I never managed to find one.

Yea thats one of the benifits of being introduced to Wow by a casual guild owner.

I think a big issue with guilds is that many people who play WoW are younger and dont have a whole lot of money. Couple this with the fact that you have to pay 15$ a month to play and people will want to play as much and as hardcore as possible to get the most out of their money. $15 a month is not much but it instills a need to get as much done each month as humanly possible sort of feeling that causes the hardcore/douchebag effect that plagues the majority of guilds out there.

My friend and I were looking into the jumpgate evolution that might be coming out in the near future. Something that caught my eye is that you dont pay a flat $15 fee each month, you pay based on the time you put into the game. This would be an excellent system for alot of people, primarily the more casual gamers, but it may not work for the more hardcore gamers. Simply not paying a flat $15 fee would eliminate the stress of trying to get your money worth out of the game each month and would probably make for a more enjoyable experience overall.

Ok so I spoilered most of the previous stuff.

Ok so while I can see this "pay as you play" being worked into a game. Im just not sure how it would be fully implemented as to how it would make payments. I do have 2 possible theories though:

Would it charge for full hours played or round it up to the nearest hour?? As it stands there is 720 hours per 30 day month, so 15/720 equates to roughly 0.02 (cents??) per hour. So by this system if player A played say a total of 24 hours over a 30 day period they would be paying 0.50, Now take player B who plays say 96 hours in 30 days, they pay 1.92. If it was worked like this then the charge per hour would need to be changed to actually make the game profitable as you cant spend 720 hours straight on a game.

OR

Would it be more like mobile credit, it depletes at it is used and say you get 360 hours of game time per $15, so that would deplete 0.04 every hour.

Dont get me wrong I think a "pay as you play" system would be great but there seems to be a fine line that you need to hit otherwise either casual/hardcore gamers are going to feel a bit ripped off but also keep the game profitable for the company. Its a tricky one to hit it seems.

the pay as you play system has been around for a few years. Project Entropia is a free game to download and play; however to get credits to buy stuff you go to the in game bank and select an amount of currency to withdraw and it charges your card based on how much you took out. granted you had to buy currency in set ammounts but it was still simple enough. the nice thing about thise pay model is that it works BOTH ways. yep, in PE if you had a pile of in game cash you could convert it back into real $$$.

i really don't get why people complain about Eve, its a giant sandbox you do what you want. there is a learning curve bit its not like WoW where its MMORPG for Dummies. Eve is really nice for the casual gamer because you can train your skills while you are offline. there are many times that i set skills to train while i was at work and then got home to play a bit. it did not feel like i HAD to play 24/7 to get my $$ worth. it wasnt untill much later that i was trying to solo build battleships did i really NEED to be on to mine all the minerals i needed.

WoW really hurt the MMORPG genre, it attempted to take some of the best things from many successful MMORPG and dumbed them down to make them less complicated and appealing to the masses. Then Wow hurt WoW with all of their unneeded expansions that nullified the previous expansion and eliminated the last remaing bit of skill needed to play the game by making ever raid a zergfest.

i played WoW during classic up untill the release of BC when i went to Eve, i came back to WoW during WotLK and boy was i dissapointed. nobody knows how to old school raid, they would rather just zerg everything to death. the community would rather argue with itself than try to work together to win WG.

there have been some fun MMORPG in the past and some are still active but i am really looking forward for something to dethrone WoW.

Deathklaat wrote:

johnscott10 wrote:

KingKodo wrote:

Spoiler:

johnscott10 wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:

johnscott10 wrote:

No you dont, the guild I was with is owned by one of my friends that I know personally, and it was mostly a casual guild we were still doing hard mode raids, sure we didnt get any of the "you guild was 1st to kill Lich King" feats of strength. You dont have to nolife raids just to progress.

Well, I am glad you found a guild like that, because most of the ones I've been in are most definitely the opposite.

However, I must say that most of the raids in WotLK were not nearly as difficult as some of the new ones on Cataclysm.

Basically this boils down to... find yourself a guild that doesn't want to raid all the time so you still have time for all the other stuff you want to do. I never managed to find one.

Yea thats one of the benifits of being introduced to Wow by a casual guild owner.

I think a big issue with guilds is that many people who play WoW are younger and dont have a whole lot of money. Couple this with the fact that you have to pay 15$ a month to play and people will want to play as much and as hardcore as possible to get the most out of their money. $15 a month is not much but it instills a need to get as much done each month as humanly possible sort of feeling that causes the hardcore/douchebag effect that plagues the majority of guilds out there.

My friend and I were looking into the jumpgate evolution that might be coming out in the near future. Something that caught my eye is that you dont pay a flat $15 fee each month, you pay based on the time you put into the game. This would be an excellent system for alot of people, primarily the more casual gamers, but it may not work for the more hardcore gamers. Simply not paying a flat $15 fee would eliminate the stress of trying to get your money worth out of the game each month and would probably make for a more enjoyable experience overall.

Ok so I spoilered most of the previous stuff.

Ok so while I can see this "pay as you play" being worked into a game. Im just not sure how it would be fully implemented as to how it would make payments. I do have 2 possible theories though:

Would it charge for full hours played or round it up to the nearest hour?? As it stands there is 720 hours per 30 day month, so 15/720 equates to roughly 0.02 (cents??) per hour. So by this system if player A played say a total of 24 hours over a 30 day period they would be paying 0.50, Now take player B who plays say 96 hours in 30 days, they pay 1.92. If it was worked like this then the charge per hour would need to be changed to actually make the game profitable as you cant spend 720 hours straight on a game.

OR

Would it be more like mobile credit, it depletes at it is used and say you get 360 hours of game time per $15, so that would deplete 0.04 every hour.

Dont get me wrong I think a "pay as you play" system would be great but there seems to be a fine line that you need to hit otherwise either casual/hardcore gamers are going to feel a bit ripped off but also keep the game profitable for the company. Its a tricky one to hit it seems.

the pay as you play system has been around for a few years. Project Entropia is a free game to download and play; however to get credits to buy stuff you go to the in game bank and select an amount of currency to withdraw and it charges your card based on how much you took out. granted you had to buy currency in set ammounts but it was still simple enough. the nice thing about thise pay model is that it works BOTH ways. yep, in PE if you had a pile of in game cash you could convert it back into real $$$.

Sorry but that isnt what we were talking about, the method above is refered to as a "Cash Shop" which is completly different to "pay as you play".

Cash Shop - Buy amounts of special currency to buy items within the game.

Pay As You Play - Purchase X number of hours game play which countdown the more you are online.

Two completely different things my friend.

Indeed. I like pay as you play games. I hate cash shop systems...



And yes, WoW is extremely harmful to the MMO genre. It's stunting the genre's growth, much like Starcrapped has done for the RTS genre.

I agree that WoW has had a negative impact on the MMO industry.

Personally I don’t mind cash shop systems under the basis that the MMO in question doesn’t go overboard. A good example of a cash shop system that works would be turbine MMOs such as LOTRO and DDO (where players can subscribe monthly to access everything or statically pay for the specific premium content they want). I think Runes of Magic is a good example of an MMO with a broken cash shop system.

candy.man wrote:I agree that WoW has had a negative impact on the MMO industry.

Personally I don’t mind cash shop systems under the basis that the MMO in question doesn’t go overboard. A good example of a cash shop system that works would be turbine MMOs such as LOTRO and DDO (where players can subscribe monthly to access everything or statically pay for the specific premium content they want). I think Runes of Magic is a good example of an MMO with a broken cash shop system.

I do not agree with this at all. Blizzard took a franchise that was extremely successful and popular and turned it into an extremely successful and popular MMO, nearly everyone my age knows what an MMO is only because of World of Warcraft. Hell, I had not even heard of an MMO nor would I have ever considered playing one before I played WoW and now I play three different MMOs at the same time. WoW is like weed, you try it out or you hear about it and you get hooked on the genre forever.

You can dislike WoW all you want, but it made MMOs popular and has caused game developers to actually bother putting effort into creating new MMOs, and this is coming from someone who really cant stand WoW.

On a side note, my friends and I (all of whom created a long lasting guild together in WoW) are going to move on and pick up guild wars 2 when it comes out. That drive to play MMOs was spawned by WoW.

Eeexcept that WoW has basically destroyed all innovation in the MMO genre.

WoW is a stagnant tumor on the industry.

Melissia wrote:Eeexcept that WoW has basically destroyed all innovation in the MMO genre.

WoW is a stagnant tumor on the industry.

Should be even better now that they want to push x-packs even more often than now, since apparently they are losing subscribers to burnout on current content.

I really do think that WoW is stifling innovation in mmo's, since just about every mmo that has been coming out has been way too much like WoW for its own good. The Star Wars MMO, even though I think it will be way too much like WoW, will hopefully make a decent showing. If it doesn't... who is even going to try anymore?

As much as I dislike WOW personally, I really agree with KingKodo.. millions of subscribers all over the world... they gotta be doing something right.

Every other MMO type game out there can only dream about that kinda success, as their huge influx of subscribers when they release the game all jump ship for the next one that comes out.

Personally though.. I'd rather stick to single player stuff that you can play for a while, and then put down and get on with your life.

That doesn't mean what they did right was in the game itself.

Games can be, and frequently are, wildly successful despite being low quality drivel. WoW is just one example of this.

I would not play a pay per play system.

I would despise it.


Why ?

If i played alot i would have to pay more then the norm $15.

When i play a MMO, i sometimes watch netflix and tv and i do a few quests/ farming then get destracted watching TV.

I leave my character afk and i go eat.


I dont want to log on, work work work to have fun and play, and if i walk away from the computer and leave my char afk.. i payed for 30min extra that i didnt use.


Now.. Ive done a pay per play game before when i played Aion on Korea servers as it was released 6 months or so before it was in the US.

You have to "pre pay" for your time, it didnt time you then charge you at the end.

Spyder68 wrote:I would not play a pay per play system.

I would despise it.


Why ?

If i played alot i would have to pay more then the norm $15.

When i play a MMO, i sometimes watch netflix and tv and i do a few quests/ farming then get destracted watching TV.

I leave my character afk and i go eat.


I dont want to log on, work work work to have fun and play, and if i walk away from the computer and leave my char afk.. i payed for 30min extra that i didnt use.


Now.. Ive done a pay per play game before when i played Aion on Korea servers as it was released 6 months or so before it was in the US.

You have to "pre pay" for your time, it didnt time you then charge you at the end.

Now this is just my way of thinking (and to be fair i do actually hope to be able to make a game at some point) but if i was to implement the pay as you play system then there would be a cut off say £10/$15 max per month, that way the people who want to spend 24/7 on it can do without being charged extreme amounts but also allows casual players to pay for what they use.

Being part of various MMORPGs (Runescape, World of Warcraft and Perfect World International) I have to say that PWI has the best payment option, not because its free but you pay for what you use. Yes its proibly $10 for a crappy item but its yours so you can use it whenever( similar to gw minis atm). I cant recall how much money iv wasted on Warcraft, Runescape and even Xbox Live memberships due to having a "cooldown period" when i dont enjoy the game. Thats why I now only use prepaid cards or non recurring membership options.

KingKodo wrote:
You can dislike WoW all you want, but it made MMOs popular

Bull. Everquest made MMOs popular, WoW just made them mainstream. Making them mainstream meant that the game could never change until the mythical "WoW Killer" comes along.

Platuan4th wrote:

KingKodo wrote:
You can dislike WoW all you want, but it made MMOs popular

Bull. Everquest made MMOs popular, WoW just made them mainstream. Making them mainstream meant that the game could never change until the mythical "WoW Killer" comes along.

Usually I would say that you are entitled to your opinion, and you are, but EQ did not make the MMO genre popular, not by a long shot. Just because the game was semi popular did not mean that it advanced the MMO genre into widespread popularity. World of Warcraft has done just that and it is WoW that has influenced developers to produce more and more innovative MMOs, not EQ. WoW made MMO games popular the way FPS games are popular. Everyone plays FPS games, jocks, nerds, drama students, actors, sports enthusiasts, literally everyone, and WoW pushed that same effect onto the MMO genre.

When someone quits playing wow, claiming that is sucks and is stagnant and what not, they do not quit playing MMOs, they move on and play many of the other titles in the market, titles that would not exist without the fan base that WoW developed.

You can hate WoW, but without it, all these other MMOs probably would not be here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

johnscott10 wrote:Now this is just my way of thinking (and to be fair i do actually hope to be able to make a game at some point) but if i was to implement the pay as you play system then there would be a cut off say £10/$15 max per month, that way the people who want to spend 24/7 on it can do without being charged extreme amounts but also allows casual players to pay for what they use.

Being part of various MMORPGs (Runescape, World of Warcraft and Perfect World International) I have to say that PWI has the best payment option, not because its free but you pay for what you use. Yes its proibly $10 for a crappy item but its yours so you can use it whenever( similar to gw minis atm). I cant recall how much money iv wasted on Warcraft, Runescape and even Xbox Live memberships due to having a "cooldown period" when i dont enjoy the game. Thats why I now only use prepaid cards or non recurring membership options.

That is how I would run the payment system, of course this is coming from a casual gamer's point of view, but that seems to appeal to both casual and hardcore players alike. By running the system like that, the company would lose out on money from the casual gamers since they are only paying for what they use, but by the same token, the company should be able to keep more casual gamers onboard thus increasing customer base, which is ultimately what I try and strive for in business anyways. Many corporations do not strive to make their customers happy though.

KingKodo wrote:

johnscott10 wrote:Now this is just my way of thinking (and to be fair i do actually hope to be able to make a game at some point) but if i was to implement the pay as you play system then there would be a cut off say £10/$15 max per month, that way the people who want to spend 24/7 on it can do without being charged extreme amounts but also allows casual players to pay for what they use.

Being part of various MMORPGs (Runescape, World of Warcraft and Perfect World International) I have to say that PWI has the best payment option, not because its free but you pay for what you use. Yes its proibly $10 for a crappy item but its yours so you can use it whenever( similar to gw minis atm). I cant recall how much money iv wasted on Warcraft, Runescape and even Xbox Live memberships due to having a "cooldown period" when i dont enjoy the game. Thats why I now only use prepaid cards or non recurring membership options.

That is how I would run the payment system, of course this is coming from a casual gamer's point of view, but that seems to appeal to both casual and hardcore players alike. By running the system like that, the company would lose out on money from the casual gamers since they are only paying for what they use, but by the same token, the company should be able to keep more casual gamers onboard thus increasing customer base, which is ultimately what I try and strive for in business anyways. Many corporations do not strive to make their customers happy though.

I may only be 19 and have no business sence watsoever, but I feel the key to a good business isnt just making a profit, but also making sure that the company itself is liked by customers as they will more than likely help increase the customer base, the recent hatred on GW more than speaks for itself haha.

I don't remember seeing any south park episodes based on Everquest, let alone TV commercials for an expansion .. EQ was around when computers were still mostly just for nerds. EQ set the stages, but it took WOW to fix all the things that EQ did wrong.

I don't really think there will ever be a single wow killer game. It's too big and wide spread. It will never really die.. hell people are still playing Ultima Online... I think over time though it will lose people here and there to newer games, so more like a trickle effect.. if anything ever comes along to kill WOW, it will probably have to be WOWII...

Tbh if a company wants to attempt to "kill" Wow then the company in question needs to do something to break the mold of current MMORPGS. Easier said than done.

While I have thought of a few ideas theres a 90% chance they has already been done. Even then im only 19 so I wouldnt be able to program/design an MMORPG myself haha.

johnscott10 wrote:

Deathklaat wrote:

johnscott10 wrote:

KingKodo wrote:

Spoiler:

johnscott10 wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:

johnscott10 wrote:

No you dont, the guild I was with is owned by one of my friends that I know personally, and it was mostly a casual guild we were still doing hard mode raids, sure we didnt get any of the "you guild was 1st to kill Lich King" feats of strength. You dont have to nolife raids just to progress.

Well, I am glad you found a guild like that, because most of the ones I've been in are most definitely the opposite.

However, I must say that most of the raids in WotLK were not nearly as difficult as some of the new ones on Cataclysm.

Basically this boils down to... find yourself a guild that doesn't want to raid all the time so you still have time for all the other stuff you want to do. I never managed to find one.

Yea thats one of the benifits of being introduced to Wow by a casual guild owner.

I think a big issue with guilds is that many people who play WoW are younger and dont have a whole lot of money. Couple this with the fact that you have to pay 15$ a month to play and people will want to play as much and as hardcore as possible to get the most out of their money. $15 a month is not much but it instills a need to get as much done each month as humanly possible sort of feeling that causes the hardcore/douchebag effect that plagues the majority of guilds out there.

My friend and I were looking into the jumpgate evolution that might be coming out in the near future. Something that caught my eye is that you dont pay a flat $15 fee each month, you pay based on the time you put into the game. This would be an excellent system for alot of people, primarily the more casual gamers, but it may not work for the more hardcore gamers. Simply not paying a flat $15 fee would eliminate the stress of trying to get your money worth out of the game each month and would probably make for a more enjoyable experience overall.

Ok so I spoilered most of the previous stuff.

Ok so while I can see this "pay as you play" being worked into a game. Im just not sure how it would be fully implemented as to how it would make payments. I do have 2 possible theories though:

Would it charge for full hours played or round it up to the nearest hour?? As it stands there is 720 hours per 30 day month, so 15/720 equates to roughly 0.02 (cents??) per hour. So by this system if player A played say a total of 24 hours over a 30 day period they would be paying 0.50, Now take player B who plays say 96 hours in 30 days, they pay 1.92. If it was worked like this then the charge per hour would need to be changed to actually make the game profitable as you cant spend 720 hours straight on a game.

OR

Would it be more like mobile credit, it depletes at it is used and say you get 360 hours of game time per $15, so that would deplete 0.04 every hour.

Dont get me wrong I think a "pay as you play" system would be great but there seems to be a fine line that you need to hit otherwise either casual/hardcore gamers are going to feel a bit ripped off but also keep the game profitable for the company. Its a tricky one to hit it seems.

the pay as you play system has been around for a few years. Project Entropia is a free game to download and play; however to get credits to buy stuff you go to the in game bank and select an amount of currency to withdraw and it charges your card based on how much you took out. granted you had to buy currency in set ammounts but it was still simple enough. the nice thing about thise pay model is that it works BOTH ways. yep, in PE if you had a pile of in game cash you could convert it back into real $$$.

Sorry but that isnt what we were talking about, the method above is refered to as a "Cash Shop" which is completly different to "pay as you play".

Cash Shop - Buy amounts of special currency to buy items within the game.

Pay As You Play - Purchase X number of hours game play which countdown the more you are online.

Two completely different things my friend.

actually its not, i am not referring to cash shop at all.

cash shop has in game currency and special currency to buy bonus items.
Project Entropia required you to buy in game currency to buy ANYTHING in the game.

so instead of paying per hour you have to micromanage your funds. how much you were paying to play was all relative to how much cash you were going through.

Deathklaat wrote:
actually its not, i am not referring to cash shop at all.

cash shop has in game currency and special currency to buy bonus items.
Project Entropia required you to buy in game currency to buy ANYTHING in the game.

so instead of paying per hour you have to micromanage your funds. how much you were paying to play was all relative to how much cash you were going through.

Actually they are both pretty much the same thing as cash shop items tend to use a special currency.

Project Entropia sounds as if its using a similar system just that it has expanded the special currency across every single buyable item in the game which is somewhat silly.

KingKodo wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

KingKodo wrote:
You can dislike WoW all you want, but it made MMOs popular

Bull. Everquest made MMOs popular, WoW just made them mainstream. Making them mainstream meant that the game could never change until the mythical "WoW Killer" comes along.

Usually I would say that you are entitled to your opinion, and you are, but EQ did not make the MMO genre popular, not by a long shot. Just because the game was semi popular did not mean that it advanced the MMO genre into widespread popularity.

Something tells me you don't understand the difference between popular and mainstream.

Popular: Liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group.

People who play video games are a particular group. EQ was popular amongst these people and was often the first exposure to MMOs most video game players had. So yes, EQ made MMOs popular.

Mainstream: the principal or dominant course, tendency, or trend

"Widespread popularity" is just another way of saying mainstream. WoW is the MMO people outside of the particular group known as video game players know, hence WoW made MMOs mainstream.

Next time you try to correct me, know your terminology.

no not really, it was pretty simple to get extra credits to play the game. with the inclusion of rental property and the stock market it added other ways to generate in game money without having to constantly be buying it with your credit card.

granted like much of Project Entropia what you got out in reward reflected what you put in.

it was really nice to be able to sell everything you own, convert it back to real cash and quit the game.

i still think you are a bit confused with the cash shop vs PE.

the only thing you could buy with your real world $$ was set amounts of in game credits that let you play the game.

i really think it is the best payment model because each player creates their own payment method.

you only needed to buy credits when you needed them, granted they have built in models to help you need credits such as ammo and item degregation.

this model really worked for both casual and hardcore gamers. there was no level cap and rewards were scaled to the player and casual gamers dont have to worry about paying to play and not being able to play.

Entropia Universe is a massively multiplayer online virtual universe designed by the Swedish software company MindArk, based in Gothenburg. Entropia uses a micropayment business model, in which players may buy in-game currency (PED - Project Entropia Dollars) with real money that can be redeemed back into real world funds at a fixed exchange rate of 10:1. This means that virtual items acquired within Entropia Universe have a real cash value, and a participant may, at any time, initiate a withdrawal of their accumulated PEDs back into real world currencies according to the fixed exchange rate, minus transaction fees, the minimum amount for a withdrawal is 1000 PED. As a result, revenue of the business is largely generated from activities within the virtual universe.

The Entropia Universe is a direct continuation of Project Entropia. Strategic partnerships with media companies and financial institutions combined with the addition of new or enhanced developer tools in 2008 are expected to allow for the construction of new planets, to exist within the financial structure of Entropia Universe, for third party content providers to develop and market independently.

The Entropia Universe entered the Guinness World Records Book in both 2004 and 2008 for the most expensive virtual world objects ever sold, and in 2009, a virtual space station, a popular destination, sold for $330,000. This was then eclipsed in November 2010 when a player sold a virtual resort on Planet Calypso for $635,000; this property was sold in chunks, with the largest sold for $335,000

Platuan4th wrote:

KingKodo wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

KingKodo wrote:
You can dislike WoW all you want, but it made MMOs popular

Bull. Everquest made MMOs popular, WoW just made them mainstream. Making them mainstream meant that the game could never change until the mythical "WoW Killer" comes along.

Usually I would say that you are entitled to your opinion, and you are, but EQ did not make the MMO genre popular, not by a long shot. Just because the game was semi popular did not mean that it advanced the MMO genre into widespread popularity.

Something tells me you don't understand the difference between popular and mainstream.

Popular: Liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group.

People who play video games are a particular group. EQ was popular amongst these people and was often the first exposure to MMOs most video game players had. So yes, EQ made MMOs popular.

Mainstream: the principal or dominant course, tendency, or trend

"Widespread popularity" is just another way of saying mainstream. WoW is the MMO people outside of the particular group known as video game players know, hence WoW made MMOs mainstream.

Next time you try to correct me, know your terminology.

I did not try and correct you at all. EQ was popular only amongst the people who played EQ. By your logic, everything is popular. Scrubbing bubbles is popular because people who use scrubbing bubbles like to use it, shamwow is popular amongst people who enjoy using shamwow... This is a moot point, of course EQ is going to be popular amongst the people who play it, if it wasnt, they wouldnt play it. There is just no point in trying to argue that point.