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SlaveToDorkness wrote:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:If you use a drop pod you can use them more effectively still expensive though :/

call me niieve but i don't get it

No jump packs (+10 per is too expensive.)
Combi of CC weapons to maximize performance.
Ideally coming out of some form of Landraider. (assault ramp)

It is a major commitment to CC. It works with BA because of DoA and the fact that the entire army is predisposed to HTH combat. However you could tailor your army to fit this style of play.

While Assault termies are cheaper, they also take up two spaces in your transport, so while a Landraider maxes at 5 assault termies, you could do it with 8 or 9 vanguard vets and an IC or two to boost them.

The secret is not to spend all the points to duplicate the survivability of TH/SS termies and or make it super killy as Shrike stated. Ideally it should win every combat but not shred everything it faces in 1 round or it will feel the wrath in your opponent's fire phase and die a horrible death because 3+ armor is good but it will die to volume of fire.

I've seen Vanguard Vets used in non-Blood Angels armies about half a dozen times.

Vanguard Vets are not some super unit that's going to go wipe an army. They're too expensive and too easy to kill for that.

Vanguard Vets are bullies. A small squad of them dropping next to some backfield annoyance that can't fight back effectively is what they're good at: units like Long Fangs (or other Devastators if people actually took those), Hive Guard, or Lootas.

Dropping them within charge range happens more than it does not, assuming that's what you're attempting.

Please don't respond to my post like I claimed VVs are auto-win units. They aren't, but they do have some purpose.

I would cry if my 15 lootas got assaulted on turn 2. I would cry green tears of gork.
On the other hand, it seems that they're competing with stormscouts now. If you're using them to take out artillery or heavy weapon teams, it seems that there's a role conflict/share there. I wonder if the chance of HI is greater than the chance of getting a good outflank, taking the stormscout's 20" assault from table edge into account (meaning Vv's can assault midboard things whereas scouts can't)

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:If you use a drop pod you can use them more effectively still expensive though :/

I believe vanguard in a drop pod are called "sternguard".. Just a simple misspelling

ruminator wrote:If they could keep the HI rule with an HQ attached then I'm sure we'd see more of them ...

If HQs could be given to VV squads and still have HI i would run a Sanquinary Priest for FNP and FC and a Chaplain for rerolls in every squad i took would love to have Astroth drop in with them to really something up or Dante so i could make use of his surgical strike! Or even take a libby and give him the Sanquine sword to really mess up enemy armour

JamesMclaren123 wrote:


call me naive but i don't get it

Any close combat oriented unit in a Pod is a bad idea, a unit that is costed at a premium to drop in via jump pack to take advantage of their special ability in a Pod is just horrible.

I am going to assume you meant Sternguard and sleep better for it.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:


call me naive but i don't get it

Any close combat oriented unit in a Pod is a bad idea, a unit that is costed at a premium to drop in via jump pack to take advantage of their special ability in a Pod is just horrible.

I am going to assume you meant Sternguard and sleep better for it.

You misunderstood me; i meant that if you use the beacon from the drop pod to get a more accurate drop, i.e. anything within 12" of the drop could get assulted and killed by the Vvs

Also i didn't get what the picture meant.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:


Also i didn't get what the picture meant.

That clearly looks like a "what the f*** did you just say?" face.


Anyways, I use 5 man VV squads with a single Powerfist in my BA DoA list. Trick is not to build them like a deathstar, but to come in and tie up units like Long fangs or Lootas or kill stationary tanks.

scubasteve04 wrote:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:


Also i didn't get what the picture meant.

That clearly looks like a "what the f*** did you just say?" face.


Anyways, I use 5 man VV squads with a single Powerfist in my BA DoA list. Trick is not to build them like a deathstar, but to come in and tie up units like Long fangs or Lootas or kill stationary tanks.

Don't you just love how in the fluff things are meant to be deathstar but in Tabletop terms they only turn out to be a good distraction or agittater?

In a BA DoA list they are double useful but still pricey. It forces your opponent to think about them as he deploys and moves the first few turns... if he bubble wraps his tanks then you can HI the bubble wrap and hopefully survive in combat until your next turn, if it's all mech then you can drop with your melta teams and assault the contents of the transports that they open with HI. I run a all infantry DoA and a dual Raven DoA list... I find my VV to be the key unit for getting my guys into assault where they belong.

They are a bit of a liability in kill point games but if you aren't looking to trade 1 for 1 you can use them less aggressively as a escort for a IC or even as a nasty surprise jumping out of a Raven. So they are viable to me... results my vary.

Price is the real hinder of the unit as I like to preach The unit got robbed blind of jump-packs and then its a Terminator for another bloke... who's not a Terminator. Not good.

Uses, well there's 2 configurations left. A 5 man hell unit with JP's and some decent weapons and melta bombs. The alternate is a 10 man unit, small amount of varied weapons, and stuck inside a landraider. I've been using the JP method for a while and so far my previous layouts didn't work. I have a few more planned so I'm waiting to see what that does. Oh and Locator Beacons would be mighty handy