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ive had 4 russes and 2 meltas shoot at it one turn, all it got was one immobilized result. They don't work for everyone, but i love mine

If it's in the codex, and you're playing the rules as intended, it's fair game. I'm sick of people whining about the good units in other peoples codexes and saying they're overpowered.

"Biker nobs are cheesy, Plague Marines are cheesy, the entire Blood Angels codex is cheesy." If you can't take losing you shouldn't play.

OK, rant over

Eh, there are worse overhyped transports out there.

So just played one and well... I was underwhelmed by it's performance. I think the GK (the one I fought) have been gypped by losing the bloodstrike missiles and getting frag missiles in return.

All they need to do is make a SR user make choices

a) Assault variant (no dread, no POTMS)
b) baby drop ship (carries dread, troops, no assault and no POTMS)
c) Gunship (POTMS, no dread, no assault)... maybe even give it 2 fire points

Since its a flying land raider... give it variants IMO

Lobukia wrote:All they need to do is make a SR user make choices

a) Assault variant (no dread, no POTMS)
b) baby drop ship (carries dread, troops, no assault and no POTMS)
c) Gunship (POTMS, no dread, no assault)... maybe even give it 2 fire points

Since its a flying land raider... give it variants IMO

Sure! Let's make IG have to choose between fire points or a turret on Chimeras and Orks choose between open-topped but froth AV 12 BWs or non-open topped and av 14 front BEs. For all the cries of Cheese, you still can't go 24" and assault. Considering how massive the SR is you're also probably not getting cover without moving flat out.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Sure! Let's make IG have to choose between fire points or a turret on Chimeras and Orks choose between open-topped but froth AV 12 BWs or non-open topped and av 14 front BEs. For all the cries of Cheese, you still can't go 24" and assault. Considering how massive the SR is you're also probably not getting cover without moving flat out.

If Chimeras could fly around with Lascannons and multimeltas, while being immune to melta damage and carrying two units and a dreadnought (wow, looks even stupider when I see it typed) then yeah, I'd force some choices on the IG player. All this being said... I've faced SRs three times, and they all died first turn (Broadsides and Sternguard love flying targets ), so I actually have no clue how tough they are in a game.

I use Stormravens in two of my armies. And yes I said 'Ravens as in two. I think that is the missing piece in this conversation.

One Stormraven is alright, two are super bad...

Used in pairs with the first turn I can destroy any two tanks on the board while getting a 4+ save for moving full out.

Then on the enemy's turn even if they bust open both Stormravens they still have to deal with the contents. For me that is usually a special character and Dreadnaughts, in your face.

If they live they become gunships for the rest of the game and I can tell you that they usually are around at the end of the game to contest objectives

I am firmly in the camp of Stormravens are awesome but not overpowered. AV 12 mitigates their survivability. They are still transports so their contents are the real threat.

veritechc wrote:I use Stormravens in two of my armies. And yes I said 'Ravens as in two. I think that is the missing piece in this conversation.

One Stormraven is alright, two are super bad...

Used in pairs with the first turn I can destroy any two tanks on the board while getting a 4+ save for moving full out.

(...)

I am firmly in the camp of Stormravens are awesome but not overpowered. AV 12 mitigates their survivability. They are still transports so their contents are the real threat.

I got whiplash reading both halves of your post.

So...melta-proof flyer that can zoom 36' to fire twin-linked anti-tank weapons while getting a 4+ save is nasty, and downright cruel if spammed.

And it's not overpowered?

The fact that the contents are the -real- threat just underscores it; you have to divert serious resources to putting them down, and unless you were lucky to get first turn and had plenty of lascannons (something orks or Nids don't get), you can count on losing important units and having a Dread and an elite unit in your face.

AV 12 isn't really bad, especially when you can get a good cover save by moving flat-out (and still fire). The current top-tier armies may be able to drown it in long fangs barrages, razorback lascannon spam and IG autocannons, but don't assume all armies have the same capabilities. Also, both the transported troops and the Dread take all but nebligible damage if one goes down.

Sephyr wrote:
I got whiplash reading both halves of your post.

So...melta-proof flyer that can zoom 36' to fire twin-linked anti-tank weapons while getting a 4+ save is nasty, and downright cruel if spammed.

And it's not overpowered?

The fact that the contents are the -real- threat just underscores it; you have to divert serious resources to putting them down, and unless you were lucky to get first turn and had plenty of lascannons (something orks or Nids don't get), you can count on losing important units and having a Dread and an elite unit in your face.

AV 12 isn't really bad, especially when you can get a good cover save by moving flat-out (and still fire). The current top-tier armies may be able to drown it in long fangs barrages, razorback lascannon spam and IG autocannons, but don't assume all armies have the same capabilities. Also, both the transported troops and the Dread take all but nebligible damage if one goes down.

You know what, sorry about the whiplash, lol.

I see your point. I was assuming we were talking about countering a Stormraven with Grey Knights, Blood Angles, Space Wolves or IG.

So I am thinking with Dark Eldar some Dark Lances should do the trick.

Chaos Marines can use Obliterators or Havocs.

Orks have Lootaz

Eldar can counter with any unit that has Bright lances.

Tau, and Tyranids I have no idea.

My point was supposed to be that they can be easily countered and therefore not overpowered. Especially for the cost. Two base Stormravens are 400 points.

veritechc wrote:


I see your point. I was assuming we were talking about countering a Stormraven with Grey Knights, Blood Angles, Space Wolves or IG.

So I am thinking with Dark Eldar some Dark Lances should do the trick.

Chaos Marines can use Obliterators or Havocs.

Orks have Lootaz

Eldar can counter with any unit that has Bright lances.

Tau, and Tyranids I have no idea.

My point was supposed to be that they can be easily countered and therefore not overpowered. Especially for the cost. Two base Stormravens are 400 points.

Bright lances and Dark lances are not bad, even though they won't benefit for the lance rule against AV12. However, it can be hard to have a good enough volume of fire of said weapons, and the 4+ save will discard half your hits! Keep in mind that those weapons will also be needed to pop other vehicles, so just by being there and being such a finicky spanker the SR already has a big effect.

Lootas need a 5 to glance and 6 to penetrate. Given their accuracy and the abundance of cover...you'll need a lot of them.

Oblits are a good choice (as if people didn't already spam them enough!), since it gives you multiple shots per unit to try and get a hit, but only people doing the also somewhat cheesy 3x3 obliterator FOC can breathe easy. Havocs are so overpriced that few people bother.

Tau actually have a somewhat decent time, as railgun pen on 3+ and, if they can get a few markerlight hits, the cover save can be mitigated. They better hope that the Stormraven's first melta dash hasn't targeted their Hammerhead....

As i said, -borderline- cheesy. It can be countered, but usually only by 1-very specific units/armies 2-great effort. Except for the GK Stormraven. That one is actually cheesy, with a 90% chance of ignoring a third of the vehicle damage table.

veritechc I think your right. Its like that with any vehicle. They get singled out and destroyed to fast if theres only one.