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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:12:55
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Hellacious Havoc
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Are they really that cheesy. They cast a lot after upgrading them and the 12 armor isn't that great (although the rear 12 is nice due to CC) and the weaponry is nice but well you are paying 200+ points on the darned thing. The Bloodstrike missiles are cheesy But the rest is really standard don't you think?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:15:23
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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It's not the Stormravens people are annoyed about...
Though the reason for them having them is the stupidest one i have ever heard.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:16:41
Subject: Re:Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I don't think anyone has ever called them cheesy... They are 200 point AV 12 vehicles.... Unless your lucky, or your opponent has no AT, they will die, probably very early on. They are useful and have plus points. But are far from being 'cheesy' (Not that anything is Cheesy, its a stupid term)
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DC:90-S+G++M--B++I+pW40k08+D++A++/eWD257R++t(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:17:31
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Napoleonics Obsesser
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Depends on what  means.
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If only ZUN!bar were here... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:28:56
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Hellacious Havoc
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Well at my flgs the non and some Space Marine Players complain about it being broken or Cheesy. I'm of a different mind. Though I play BA i wont take one because my HS slots are too important for a Stormraven to fill it. I can understand the disgruntled IG player due to the ability to transport a Dreadnought but thats as far as my sympathy goes.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/23 17:29:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:31:50
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Hytanthas wrote:Well at my flgs the non and some Space Marine Players complain about it being broken or Cheesy. I'm of a different mind. Though I play BA i wont take one because my HS slots are too important for a Stormraven to fill it. I can understand the disgruntled IG player due to the ability to transport a Dreadnought but thats as far as my sympathy goes.
I think it's more that whole "move Flat Out and still fire a weapon" thing from the FAQs that has people miffed somat.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:33:35
Subject: Re:Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Assault Kommando
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i recently took a stormraven at a local doubles tournament (playing GKs). out of all 3 battles it never died. this is mostly due to good cover, a librarian (for shrouding), and a techmarine. my ally was IG and he was never shot at due to all of the fire power that was directed toward the SR. i can't believe how well it preformed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:34:31
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores
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meh its armor 12, thats usually easy enough to deal with, hell even my necrons make stormravens cry, tis rather silly.
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Army:
Havenican sector:
Amory IV legion 2750 points (100% painted)
Sons of Plague 2600 (95% painted)
HoverBoy wrote:
Skaven either devastate the enemy, or explode in spectacular shows of selfdestruction. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:44:58
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Hellacious Havoc
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Wait it can move 18" and still shoot! Thats a bit broken but still it's 200+ points I can see this to an extent.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:52:35
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun
SoCal
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Hytanthas wrote:Wait it can move 18" and still shoot! Thats a bit broken but still it's 200+ points I can see this to an extent.
24" actually. Fast skimmer yo.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:55:30
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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So can Land Speeders.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 17:57:26
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Dominar
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They're not in the least bit cheesey. It's yet another AV12 vehicle in a meta rife with AV12 vehicles.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 18:01:55
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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purplefood wrote:So can Land Speeders.
What?
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Sangfroid Marines 5000 pts
Wych Cult 2000
Tau 2000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 18:06:13
Subject: Re:Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I look at Storm Ravens the same way as Land Raiders: 200+ point vehicles that will cease to exist on turn 2.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/23 18:06:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 18:22:18
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun
SoCal
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purplefood wrote:So can Land Speeders.
Only if your land speeders have POTMS
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 18:38:49
Subject: Re:Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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It's not so much that they're cheesy, but that they have so multiple special rules that break other special rules or or core rules and provide a capability to the Space Marines once reserved exclusively for other, far more fragile races. People find them...annoying.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 19:09:32
Subject: Re:Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Vaktathi wrote:It's not so much that they're cheesy, but that they have so multiple special rules that break other special rules or or core rules and provide a capability to the Space Marines once reserved exclusively for other, far more fragile races. People find them...annoying.
Agreed. I play both IG and Nids. Stormravens more or less fall under the 'annoying' category than anything else.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 19:27:12
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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purplefood wrote:It's not the Stormravens people are annoyed about...
Though the reason for them having them is the stupidest one i have ever heard.
Off topic, but what is the reason?
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=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DQ:80-S---G+MB-I+PW40K00#-D++A+/fWD-R++T(M)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code======
"I just scoop up the whole unit in my hands and dump them in a pile roughly 6" forward. I don't even care."
- Lord_Blackfang on moving large units
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 19:40:08
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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I have several issues with SR.
The ability to carry a dread, especially.
The twin talon mixmaster, specifically.
As i run horde orks most times it gets very aggrevating to have this thing clang to the ground next to a unit and just oblit it with no chance of me getting a swing in return, and no chance of shooting it up as it plods across the board like you'd usually have with dreads.
Sure, you can shoot down the SR (12 armour isn't bad btw, it's just not a Leman russ or LR ) but between ork accuracy and it's speed (flatout cover saves et al) it's unlikely unless you throw everything you have at it, or tooled for SR's specifically.
I'm used to having eldar fast-zooming their fast skimmers at me, full of scorpions and so on. The cargo is fragile, and they don't get to strap a wraithlord to the back. Nor do they get a missile rack underneath..
The SR for me is pretty much a case of 'what do the xenos have that we haven't jacked and up-gunned for the SM yet? '
It's an imperial Wave Serpent with more guns and a dreadnought grapple. It doesn't have the ability to reduce the power of your shots to 8 but it has the same resistance to melta (only all round, not just front and sides) and it can fire flat out.
Given that the Marines had a distinct dearth of fast skimmers before the SR dropped (landspeeder aside) it doesn't sit right with me for the marines to suddenly have them. Bets every chapter gets them in the 6th ed marine codex? Automatically Appended Next Post: *small chip on shoulder*
These things and valk/vendettas are everywhere locally..
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/23 19:41:19
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 19:43:52
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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It's tough for a small handful of armies to deal with, but any list designed for a modern, fully Mech enviornment should be able to handle it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 21:44:47
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Another reason for Tyranids to take nine Hive Guards, and for Tau to take nine Broadsides.
There goes another little bit of diversity in the metagame.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 21:46:55
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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my hydras make the storm raven look "swiss-cheesey"
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javascript:emoticon(' '); 3,000 pointsjavascript:emoticon(' ');
2,000 points
265 point detachment
Imperial Knight detachment: 375
Iron Hands: 1,850
where ever you go, there you are |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 21:48:44
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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somecallmeJack wrote:purplefood wrote:It's not the Stormravens people are annoyed about...
Though the reason for them having them is the stupidest one i have ever heard.
Off topic, but what is the reason?
BA have a good relationship with the AdMech. This in itself isn't so bad until you remember that the AdMech are annoyed at the BA for not giving them the Baal predator STC. So essentially the AdMech are annoyed at them and friends with them at the same time, which given the AdMech's guarding nature of information doesn't really make sense.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 21:56:29
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Polonius wrote:It's tough for a small handful of armies to deal with, but any imperial or eldar (either variant )list designed for a modern, fully Mech enviornment should be able to handle it.
Fixed that for you
It's not that it can't be shot down. Dealing with the SR is doable, if a severe trial for BS 2 with few good AT weapons. It's the filling and blender that ride along with it as much as the beast itself
If a waveserpent could carry a wraithlord, or a harpy carry a carnifex you'd have IM armies calling for the head of the writer on a plate, infinitely more that he already is
There are options to take it down in every army. Some armies have a much harder struggle with mech than others though, unless they want to be pidgeonholed into the one or two 'viable' builds for the army against tank-spam.
Now if only i could take tankbustas as troops Automatically Appended Next Post: martin74 wrote:my hydras make the storm raven look "swiss-cheesey"
Made my day.
Now i need some looted Hydras
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/23 21:57:11
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 22:00:49
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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I don't think it's cheesy. Of course if you poll the internet, Half thinks it is uber Cheese, and the other half think it is a complete waste of points. So I think that actually means it is an ok and balanced vehicle.
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On Dakka he was Eldanar. In our area, he was Lee. R.I.P., Lee Guthrie. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 22:39:41
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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I'd say...borderline cheesy.
As people said, a fast skimmer zooming 24' inches and still shooting (Suck it, Dark Eldar!), getting a 4+ cover save in addition to it's melta immunity (which can be improved to 3+ with GK librarians) firing twin-linked multi-meltas in alpha strikes....AND carrying a dread and troops that get to assault, because it's an assault vehicle.
It does too much, too well. Can it be countered? Yes. You can get lucky. The top-tier armies have plenty of razorback lascannons, psy-rifledreads and IG autocannons to toss their way and get a good damage result.
Orks, Nids, CSM and Eldar...not so much.
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In Boxing matches, you actually get paid to take a dive and make the other guy look good.
In Warhammer 40K, you're expected to pay cash out of your pocket for the privilege of having Marines and IG trample all over your Xenos/Chaos. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/23 23:17:30
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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ascalam, glad i made your day
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javascript:emoticon(' '); 3,000 pointsjavascript:emoticon(' ');
2,000 points
265 point detachment
Imperial Knight detachment: 375
Iron Hands: 1,850
where ever you go, there you are |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/24 00:31:35
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Hellacious Havoc
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jbunny wrote:I don't think it's cheesy. Of course if you poll the internet, Half thinks it is uber Cheese, and the other half think it is a complete waste of points. So I think that actually means it is an ok and balanced vehicle.
This is what I'm getting from this post thus far.
IMO Stormravens will me a Space Marine option for all in the next edition.
So would you class the annoyance of the stormraven with that of a 5 man squad of terminators (wow comparing the terminators make terminators look crappy imo)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/24 01:48:24
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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the storm raven will be F.A.Q. in soon. once the sales for the storm raven die off or slow down (meaing re-orders), it will be FAQed.
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javascript:emoticon(' '); 3,000 pointsjavascript:emoticon(' ');
2,000 points
265 point detachment
Imperial Knight detachment: 375
Iron Hands: 1,850
where ever you go, there you are |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/24 01:57:01
Subject: Are Stormravens really that cheesy?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The GK version is better for not having to pay for extra armor and being able to ignore shaken and stunned rules, but it's still a 200+ AV12 vehicle with a lot of juicy points inside.
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