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I'd say it actually makes perfect sense for them to give things Rending. But we'd have to change a few things. Just going on what I know, the Space Marine Assault Squads would have to have a Combat Blade as default, and a Chainsword for a 3 pt upgrade. Vanguard Veterans and could keep their chainswords, though, since most people give them upgrades anyway. Orks would have to differentiate between "Choppas" and "Chain Choppas"

What about Chainfists? Sx2, 2d6 For Armor Penetration, Rending?

While 40k is 1. Fiction and 2. Fantasy Sci Fi, I agree with Melissia

If I went back in time to the age of the first guns, I bet they'll laugh if I described modern day Sniper Rifles to them since to them guns cant reliably shoot at far away targets at a rate x10 faster

I think Chainfists already incorporate the "chain" part of their fist

I'm surprised there arent chain lighting hammers!

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:I'd say it actually makes perfect sense for them to give things Rending. But we'd have to change a few things. Just going on what I know, the Space Marine Assault Squads would have to have a Combat Blade as default, and a Chainsword for a 3 pt upgrade. Vanguard Veterans and could keep their chainswords, though, since most people give them upgrades anyway. Orks would have to differentiate between "Choppas" and "Chain Choppas"

What about Chainfists? Sx2, 2d6 For Armor Penetration, Rending?

Not really sure what Rending would do for Chainfists, as if either die rolls a 6, even if the other is a 1, it's penetrating any vehicle in the game, and a 6 already wounds and ignores saves on everything anyway (assuming S4 base here, I'm not aware of any chainfists available on anything that's not S4 base)

Wouldn't everybody against Orks be in a bit of a pickle

Kravox wrote:Wouldn't everybody against Orks be in a bit of a pickle

Maybe only give it to Big Choppas or make the upgrade (nearly)double the cost of your normal boy? Although should Buzzsaws have this rule?

Or have rending if you had a certain strength enough to chew through muscle and sinew

This is probobly going to cause more grief, but I think the basic premis was to update a unit type/weapon option to increase combat scaryness. Whether a chainweapon is practical or not can be avoided by finding a better equivalent to rend. rend is basically a chance to turn an oponents armour (even vehicle) against them. So how about this. (using noise marines as an example start group, or tau as both use sonic weapons)

"sonic blades" special rule: rending 5pt upgrade
The weapon strikes as a tuning fork, attempting to resonate with the oponants armor, causing it to shake apart, and vibrate, causing massive internal damage. (liquifying organs, blowing out ear drums etc)

To balance a free versiom you could always lower the weapons strength by 1 as it may be more delicate. (str-1, rending, free upgrade)

I apologize for any typos, using a phone on a train

As a blood angels player I personally think this would be insanely overpowered. I always field 3x 10 man assault marine units with sanguinary priests and striking at initiative 5 on the charge with 24-ish (possibly more if I upgrade the priests and sergeants) rending attacks would be nuts. Goodbye termies.

I cant even imagine what basic DC would be like if chainswords had rending or even if it was a 3-5 point upgrade.

My suggestion:

1: ALL CURRENT CCWS STAY AS THEY ARE. This will ensure that basic balance is not disrupted.

2: Add Chainsword as an upgrade to all Imperial, non-Daemon Chaos, and Eldar models that have a CCW, for 3 pts apiece for Marines and 2 pts apiece for Humans and Eldar. These replace the basic CCW and grant the Rending USR.

3: Add Chain Axe as an upgrade for Khornate Berserker CCWs, for 6 pts apiece. These replace their CCWs and grant the Rending USR and re-rolls on a to-wound roll of 1.

4: Add Chain-Choppas as an upgrade for Ork Choppas for 4 pts apiece. These replace the Choppas grant the Rending USR and re-rolls the first failed to-wound roll on the charge.

5: Add a Big Chain Choppa for any Ork able to take Big Choppas, for +10 pts apiece. Counts as a Big Choppa which has Rending and re-rolls on to-wound rolls of 1.

6: Add Sparky Choppas for Nobs, Bosses, Meks, and Big Meks for +15 pts apiece. Replaces the Choppa, annd counts as a power weapon.

Hmm 30 points to fully kit out a rhino embarked marine squad with rending sounds a bit cheap imo. Also all guardsmen have CCW so I would be very afraid of +18 bodies in a powerblob with rending. I would tack on a higher cost or only let certain IG model take them (after all it seems that even catachans or death korps basic infantry rely on knifes more than chainswords). Chain Choppas definatly give small ork units like bikers and trukkers an edge but I think the reroll would bump the price up

I like Sparky Choppas though

kenshin620 wrote:I'm surprised there arent chain lighting hammers!

Thank you, this makes Caesar smile!

Me too!

I like to joke with my buddy about some of the nearly absurd 40k weapons suggesting an apocalyptic space marine weapon, a gun that SHOOTS chainswords!

and I want a gun that shoots Sharks!

Oh jeez, back OT

What about the addition to just Khorne Berzerkers and Striking Scroprions for 3 points per model?

Melissa has this down perfectly.

Rather than Rending, I suggest a watered-down version.

"Chain Weapon": Any wounds inflicted on a to-wound roll of 6 are treated as though inflicted by a power weapon.

No bonuses against vehicles, no chance to wound high-toughness beasties. Just ignoring armor.

using GW fluff (the gaunts ghosts series) i would say that having a chain weapon merely count as a CCW is a bit weak, gaunts chain sword carves hime across the first 2.5 books and there is a mention of a world eater cutting a russ open with a chain axe

Yeah khorne bezerkers are really a let down in the current 5th codex. They're amazing against non-dedicated CC units but so is everything else. They can't hold their own against terminators, boyz or anyone that's designed to go CC. Pathetic, I know.
And no don't even try the 80 attacks on a charge argument. You're limited to 10 bezerkers max due to transportation issues.

I just personally use the old codex when khorne chainaxes were a unique weapon that allowed a maximum of a 4+ armor save for 1pts per model. Yes, it rapes the s*** out of elite/heavy infantry.
Why not just use that then? It's already an "official" upgrade.
Also, you can take amazing things like collar of khorne. 2+ save against psychic spells.
Just last week I had a game against a GK terminator squad. 1500. I ran 2 bezerker squads that cost me like 571 points each or something.
The guy initially had a purifier crowe list (which ironically would've done better) but he was like "Oh I didn't know you were taking bezerkers" so he switched his list right before deployment.

BAM! All his terminators had 4+ armor saves in CC. He only had like 1 halberd in every squad so with furious charge, I pretty much slaughtered them.
Also, in old dex you could give a guy a banner of rage for 20 points which gave everyone +1A for one assault phase during anyone's turn. Amazing on a charge when you can get 5 attacks per berzerker.
So yeah, if you want to have fun with khorne via official rules, last edition dex is the way to go. You can find them on ebay for like $10.

Just putting that out there. Also something to consider if you're thinking about houseruling 3 pts for rending per model when khronate chainaxes were just 1pt. And things were more expensive in the old dex too.

Because it modifies the armor save, and that's something that GW seems to not like.

Besides, with the upgrade I noted, they do wounds than normal AND have a chance to rend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The suggestion to have it merely be ignoring armor on a six instead of a penetration bonus is probably better, although chain axes and big chain choppas should keep rending.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Melissa has this down perfectly.

Yea I agree.

How did you get to 10300 posts Melissia and I don't seem to recognize you? 10k in a single year is impressive.

Bah, screw GW. They were the ones that came out with those rules anyway.
You're looking at a chance to get anti-heavy armor capability and increased anti-vehicle for 3 pts versus just super-anti heavy armor for 1pts. (Since you need to roll 6's to rend versus ALL your attacks just forcing 4+ saves)
Now, rerolling 1's to wound is nice but at 6 points would you really take it? That would push modern bezerkers to 26/model. You have to admit, that's really expensive for a I4 CC unit. There is little bonus against vehicles since you get a buttload of attacks at S5 anyway against rear 10. Could be beneficial against walkers though...
In comparison, old bezerkers were 26/model at
WS4, no furious charge, FnP, frags and khornate chainaxes.

Melissia wrote:
4: Add Chain-Choppas as an upgrade for Ork Choppas for 4 pts apiece. These replace the Choppas grant the Rending USR and re-rolls the first failed to-wound roll on the charge.

Unless you want to force Ork players to roll separately for each model, I'd suggest you change this to something else.

The thing that really grinds my gears on this topic is that Imperial Guard Penal Legion knife fighters - using knives, let alone chainswords - have Rending attacks. What the hell, Cruddace.

kadeton wrote:The thing that really grinds my gears on this topic is that Imperial Guard Penal Legion knife fighters - using knives, let alone chainswords - have Rending attacks. What the hell, Cruddace.

Prison life can change you

But that is a good point, why do random criminals with knifes have a better chance at cracking open mega armor or tyranid shells than space marines with chainswords?

Harken back to last edition where khornate chainaxes allowed a maximum armour save of 4+.

"Hello Terminators, here's 50 attacks, feel free to roll your 4+ saves. Mwuhahahahaha."

kadeton wrote:The thing that really grinds my gears on this topic is that Imperial Guard Penal Legion knife fighters - using knives, let alone chainswords - have Rending attacks. What the hell, Cruddace.

Yes, silly.

Praxiss wrote:Harken back to last edition where khornate chainaxes allowed a maximum armour save of 4+.

"Hello Terminators, here's 50 attacks, feel free to roll your 4+ saves. Mwuhahahahaha."

But that never made sense that suddenly both power armor and terminator armor gave the same save and yet anything above that is unscathed so to speak

It just struck e as a way to make 'zerker axes more effective without having re-write ccw rules for everyone.

I think there should be an option to upgrade 'zerkers to power weapons (but then you're looking at Vanguard level unit prices) or at least an enhanced chain axe which would grant +1S or Rending etc.

The penal legions are insane. They will stick you!

Remember, you only have a 1 in 3 chance of them becoming rending, the other times they become pointless canon fodder.

-cgmckenzie

Pointless cannon fodder that outflanks to attack heavy weapons teams, and are cheap assaulters regardless of what they get.

So really, not so pointless. You get a lot out of penal legion for merely eighty points and a troops choice slot.

Rather than let chain edged weapons be rending...
How do you feel about forcing the oponent to re roll sucessful armour save rolls?
Slightly more effective vs infantry, the lighter the armour the more scary an enemy witha chainsword/chainaxe is...

Just a thought...

Lanrak, that is actually a really good idea. Either that or reroll to wound.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:Against armor it would still be more helpful than a straight blade.

except no, straight swords have a thin piercing point for a very very good reason, you can probably guess what that piercing point is used for.

if anything a basic straight sword should have rending because of that, while a chainsword should have -1 to hit and wound and give +1 to armour saves for being so utterly pathetic as a weapon of war, it would be more effective to turn it off and use it as a club with lots of teeth