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Frazzled wrote:1) why was there an arrest warrant? What legal crime was committed? Not paying loans is not a criminal offense. Its a breach of contract.
(how the hell does the Department of Education get a criminal enforcement bureau? )

Sue for debt in court, ask judge for an order requiring defendant to show up. When defendant doesn't show up, ask for an arrest for contempt. Have cops arrest the defendant.

This reminds me, I need to return some books to the College.....

Hm, somebody is at the door.

Didn't our president default on student loans? And if not, what about all the other people that defaulted? Shouldn't we strap up our SWAT teams with MP5's and go bust their houses down?
It doesn't make sense.

biccat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:1) why was there an arrest warrant? What legal crime was committed? Not paying loans is not a criminal offense. Its a breach of contract.
(how the hell does the Department of Education get a criminal enforcement bureau? )

Sue for debt in court, ask judge for an order requiring defendant to show up. When defendant doesn't show up, ask for an arrest for contempt. Have cops arrest the defendant.

The sheriff serves it. Actually now that I think about it, they just have a warrant out. It would be a local matter to enforce. No SWAT team would ever show for that.

Now that i think about it some more, they'd just get a default judgement against the defendant at that point. No need for the defendant to show. Again, how'd they get a ing warrant?

Again this is crazy. I know there's nothing to do in Stockton IIRC but really?

purplefood wrote:So...
They broke his door down. Arrested him. Searched his house and scared his kids.
Did anyone show this man the search warrant?
This sounds pretty illegal... and why were the Department of Education breaking down peoples doors?

The whole situation is insane. I'm wondering how they got a warrant too. Just wanted to point out though, judging by the article, it sounds like they didn't actually arrest him. They just cuffed him and made him sit in a cruiser with his kids while the police searched his house.

This entire thing sounds suspicious...

Frazzled wrote:What legal crime was committed? Not paying loans is not a criminal offense. Its a breach of contract.

Failure to notify the holder of a student loan of changes in name, residency, or employment status are all criminal offenses. All very likely if this woman is estranged from her husband and children.

My sense is that something is missing in this story.

How did they know she had changed her address until they kicked that poor sods door down and shoved him into a police cruiser for 6 hours?

Seriously, knocking would have been such a better alternative...

Frazzled wrote:

kronk wrote:I understand the need to practice and hone your skills.

This wasn't the time for going full-on, ape-gak crazy, though.

Well there are so many problems its not funny.
1) why was there an arrest warrant? What legal crime was committed? Not paying loans is not a criminal offense. Its a breach of contract.
(how the hell does the Department of Education get a criminal enforcement bureau? )
2) Why did they use SWAT? Why did they keep him locked up for 6 hours?

the whole thing sounds crazy, because it is crazy.

Frazz don't you remember this

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/283619.page

Now we know why they needed those shotguns

Suddenly it makes sense... oh wait, no it doesn't...

purplefood wrote:How did they know she had changed her address until they kicked that poor sods door down and shoved him into a police cruiser for 6 hours?

They may have brought a history of non-communication to a judge, or had a statement from the husband indicating that she had moved, or changed her name.

purplefood wrote:
Seriously, knocking would have been such a better alternative...

Probably, but there's nothing that immediately tells me that this was an illicit event.

dogma wrote:

purplefood wrote:How did they know she had changed her address until they kicked that poor sods door down and shoved him into a police cruiser for 6 hours?

They may have brought a history of non-communication to a judge, or had a statement from the husband indicating that she had moved, or changed her name.

purplefood wrote:
Seriously, knocking would have been such a better alternative...

Probably, but there's nothing that immediately tells me that this was an illicit event.

Surely if she only had a history of non-communication that only requires a check to see if she was still in the area/alive, i mean i can do that. Just go up and knock and then ask.
If they had known she had moved why did they kick the guys door down?
This stinks of something bad... either someone is incompetent or they were there for other reasons and are covering.

I get that there may be a criminal charge to answer for here. The federal government almost always includes heavy penalties for misleading them or dicking them around after they gave you money for something.

But I really, really have no idea why a SWAT team would be needed to secure the arrest. If a person has no record of violence, then bringing in more than dozen guys just seems like an immense waste of resources. Never mind bringing all those guns just increases the chance of someone getting shot.

purplefood wrote:
If they had known she had moved why did they kick the guys door down?

Well, strictly speaking they would only have known what he told them, and people lie all the time; particularly when dealing with collections.

purplefood wrote:
This stinks of something bad... either someone is incompetent or they were there for other reasons and are covering.

They just used more force than was necessary, police have a long history of doing that, so does every other body charged with the legitimate use of force.

dogma wrote:

purplefood wrote:
If they had known she had moved why did they kick the guys door down?

Well, strictly speaking they would only have known what he told them, and people lie all the time; particularly when dealing with collections.

purplefood wrote:
This stinks of something bad... either someone is incompetent or they were there for other reasons and are covering.

They just used more force than was necessary, police have a long history of doing that, so does every other body charged with the legitimate use of force.

They had a search warrant.
If an official and maybe 2 officers turned up to enforce it no one would have said anything.
As it is they messed up...

Yeah...I'd like to post a famous N.W.A song.

sebster wrote:But I really, really have no idea why a SWAT team would be needed to secure the arrest. If a person has no record of violence, then bringing in more than dozen guys just seems like an immense waste of resources. Never mind bringing all those guns just increases the chance of someone getting shot.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. There has never been a situation where the SWAT was called in that resulted in someone getting shot. Furthermore, that person has never been former military with no record whatsoever. Finally, they would never refuse aid to that person while he bled out to death like an animal while forcing his wife and kids to bear witness.

I've been reading on this, and while the DOE won't comment much on an ongoing investigation, they have said that it wasn't about unpaid student loans. There's a link to the search warrant at http://www.fatwallet.com/static/attachments/93797_ed_dept_wright_warrant_060711.pdf . From that doc, the crimes listed are Financial Aid Fraud, Theft of Government Funds, Wire Fraud, and False Statement to a government Agency. Putting that together with the list of what items were being searched for, it looks like the wife was allegedly making lots of fake financial aid applications with all kinds of false documents.

The fact that the DOE has a swat team and they and the courts consider it OK for them to conduct paramilitary raids for documents is a problem, but the stuff about sending a SWAT team for unpaid student loans looks like it was just absolutely atrocious reporting. It's really unfortunate, because it means people will remember 'oh it wasn't really for student loans' and not 'why does the DOE need a paramilitary force of their own?'.

daedalus wrote:They used the SWAT....because someone defaulted... on their student loans?

"Nice place ya got 'ere. Shame eef anythen were ta happen ta eet."

Thats exactly what I just said to myself. Seriously, WTF is that all about? SWAT? For loan problems?! Jesus christ really?

The best use of SWAT ever.

I like how the guys like "I just want a new door!".

Karon wrote:Yeah...I'd like to post a famous N.W.A song.

I;m right with ya. It seems like Alex Jones was right after all.