Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Was it Dunn that said the immortal line:

'feels like i just gakked my ASS!'

That has been part of my phrasebook for many a year...

filbert wrote:
So according to the police, he was definitely driving but I think people should probably reserve judgement on damning him for drink driving until such time as/if toxicology reports are released.

Which will take at least a month, apparently.

Meanwhile, Roger Ebert feels he has enough evidence to condemn Dunn anyway.

Of course, he's since "clarified" his tweet, but if he was merely intending to make a "true" comment, the timing seems strange.

That being said, Dunn apparently hit the tree at 110 mph, which implies that he was going faster before leaving the road.

Well, if that's true I would say its hard to feel too sorry for the guy.

Unless it comes to light that he was being chased by Nazis/Shoggoths/etc...

He posted pictures of himself drinking alcoholic beverages just an hour or two before coming to a sudden arboreal stop. That is why there is so much speculation that he was drinking and driving.

Never mind I apologize if my previous posts have offended anybody. In the picture taken a couple hours before his death you can see the man is clearly sober, not at all flush in the face, and enjoying nothing more than a non alcoholic glass of tea. We can all now take a look at that picture and rest at east that Dunn's toxicology report will come back free of alcohol.

Iced tea no less.

Ratius wrote:Iced tea no less.

With a twist of lemon. A representative from the bar said he was Ok to drive, and who could possibly be more ethical and objective on this issue.

It's not really about whether he was drunk-driving or not, it's about showing a little class. A person is dead.

For example, what if your dad died as a result of getting behind the wheel whilst intoxicated? It would be his fault, I don't know him, am not familiar with his work, and honestly wouldn't give a gak. I WOULD, however, have enough class not to make a point of telling everybody that I don't give a gak, because it's a crass thing to do and reflects badly on the person who does it.

It's like the Bin Laden thing- guy was a dick, totally had it coming, and pretty much got his just desserts (questionable legality aside, of course...). I think how people reacted to the news of his assassination is a reflection of their sense of decorum and poise. I think that displaying those traits is the measure of a man - instead of being some mouthbreathing idiot.

Albatross wrote:It's not really about whether he was drunk-driving or not, it's about showing a little class. A person is dead.

For example, what if your dad died as a result of getting behind the wheel whilst intoxicated? It would be his fault, I don't know him, am not familiar with his work, and honestly wouldn't give a gak. I WOULD, however, have enough class not to make a point of telling everybody that I don't give a gak, because it's a crass thing to do and reflects badly on the person who does it.

It's like the Bin Laden thing- guy was a dick, totally had it coming, and pretty much got his just desserts (questionable legality aside, of course...). I think how people reacted to the news of his assassination is a reflection of their sense of decorum and poise. I think that displaying those traits is the measure of a man - instead of being some mouthbreathing idiot.

The problem is you were expecting Americans to act british, we don't do the stiff upper lip

youbedead wrote:

Albatross wrote:It's not really about whether he was drunk-driving or not, it's about showing a little class. A person is dead.

For example, what if your dad died as a result of getting behind the wheel whilst intoxicated? It would be his fault, I don't know him, am not familiar with his work, and honestly wouldn't give a gak. I WOULD, however, have enough class not to make a point of telling everybody that I don't give a gak, because it's a crass thing to do and reflects badly on the person who does it.

It's like the Bin Laden thing- guy was a dick, totally had it coming, and pretty much got his just desserts (questionable legality aside, of course...). I think how people reacted to the news of his assassination is a reflection of their sense of decorum and poise. I think that displaying those traits is the measure of a man - instead of being some mouthbreathing idiot.

The problem is you were expecting Americans to act british, we don't do the stiff upper lip

Yep, I kind of suspected as much, but didn't want to go down that road for fear of starting yet another UK vs. USA flame-skirmish....

schadenfreude wrote:
Never mind I apologize if my previous posts have offended anybody. In the picture taken a couple hours before his death you can see the man is clearly sober, not at all flush in the face, and enjoying nothing more than a non alcoholic glass of tea. We can all now take a look at that picture and rest at east that Dunn's toxicology report will come back free of alcohol.

He also isn't clearly drunk, or flush in the face, and drinking a beer does not indicate the absence of sobriety. There's also the whole issue of whether or not the picture was uploaded to Twitter when it was taken. I don't know why you're talking about resting at all though, are you losing sleep over the fact that a man who died in auto accident might have been intoxicated at the time?

In any case your earlier comment was nonsense because you drew an inference without basis. Providing a set of facts isn't "media talk" for anything other than the provision of a set of facts. Whatever you do with those facts, and what you did was blatant nonsense of the sort which points towards a distaste for celebrity, is entirely your own business; no matter how misguided that business might be.

To put it bluntly, you said something that was incorrect, and were promptly informed of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albatross wrote:

youbedead wrote:
The problem is you were expecting Americans to act british, we don't do the stiff upper lip

Yep, I kind of suspected as much, but didn't want to go down that road for fear of starting yet another UK vs. USA flame-skirmish....

Yeah, for the most part we're of the "judging without the full set of facts" variety. This is also known as "Feeling right is more important than being right."

I only don't care in the broad sense that everyday more people die that I don't know than people I do and if I am to keep moving forward I can't be going on with the gnashing of the teeth and tearing of cloth at every strangers passing. Just being semi-famous doesn't make a huge amount of difference. During the typing of this sentence a few people I didn't know would have passed away, and they won't even get the benefit of a posting about it.

Ahtman has an admirable sense of perspective.

Ahtman wrote:I only don't care in the broad sense that everyday more people die that I don't know than people I do and if I am to keep moving forward I can't be going on with the gnashing of the teeth and tearing of cloth at every strangers passing. Just being semi-famous doesn't make a huge amount of difference. During the typing of this sentence a few people I didn't know would have passed away, and they won't even get the benefit of a posting about it.

+1.

There is a counterpoint to that argument Albatross.

If he had been drinking and he had survived the crash, he would be under arrest for MANSLAUGHTER or murder depending on the state etc.

You forget that potentially someone else paid the ultimate price for his IDIOCY.

If someone was drunk driving, then yeah, I'd say they were being idiotic. But I don't think they deserve to die just because they made a bad decision, even if they killed someone else, because that person would be an idiot too for getting in the car with them. Personally I think it always sucks when someone dies like this, but that's just me.

On a side note, I always thought Dunn was the funniest member of Jackass.

That is not my opinion that was a counterpoint...

Perkustin wrote:There is a counterpoint to that argument Albatross.

If he had been drinking and he had survived the crash, he would be under arrest for MANSLAUGHTER or murder depending on the state etc.

If my Nana had bollocks she'd be my Grandad, but she hasn't, so she isn't.

How's THAT for a counterpoint?

Albatross wrote:

Perkustin wrote:There is a counterpoint to that argument Albatross.

If he had been drinking and he had survived the crash, he would be under arrest for MANSLAUGHTER or murder depending on the state etc.

If my Nana had bollocks she'd be my Grandad, but she hasn't, so she isn't.

How's THAT for a counterpoint?

Uh, not a very good one.

nectarprime wrote:

Albatross wrote:

Perkustin wrote:There is a counterpoint to that argument Albatross.

If he had been drinking and he had survived the crash, he would be under arrest for MANSLAUGHTER or murder depending on the state etc.

If my Nana had bollocks she'd be my Grandad, but she hasn't, so she isn't.

How's THAT for a counterpoint?

Uh, not a very good one.

On the contrary.

That may have been the greatest counterpoint of all time.

You didnt quote my entire point.

I am just saying a third party needn't be sympathetic for someone who (might have) brought a fate on themeselves and someone else. They do not deserve to be mocked as relatives grief is not something for amusement, but why should someone (with no real relationship) be sad for him?

It is a perfectly valid point. Heck, he was my favourite one.

nectarprime wrote:

Albatross wrote:

Perkustin wrote:There is a counterpoint to that argument Albatross.

If he had been drinking and he had survived the crash, he would be under arrest for MANSLAUGHTER or murder depending on the state etc.

If my Nana had bollocks she'd be my Grandad, but she hasn't, so she isn't.

How's THAT for a counterpoint?

Uh, not a very good one.

Really?

'If X did Y, then it would be N. However, X did NOT do Y, so it isn't N, therefore N is not relevant to this discussion.'

That's pretty much the perfect counterpoint to what he said. So climb off my balls.

youbedead wrote:

Albatross wrote:It's not really about whether he was drunk-driving or not, it's about showing a little class. A person is dead.

For example, what if your dad died as a result of getting behind the wheel whilst intoxicated? It would be his fault, I don't know him, am not familiar with his work, and honestly wouldn't give a gak. I WOULD, however, have enough class not to make a point of telling everybody that I don't give a gak, because it's a crass thing to do and reflects badly on the person who does it.

It's like the Bin Laden thing- guy was a dick, totally had it coming, and pretty much got his just desserts (questionable legality aside, of course...). I think how people reacted to the news of his assassination is a reflection of their sense of decorum and poise. I think that displaying those traits is the measure of a man - instead of being some mouthbreathing idiot.

The problem is you were expecting Americans to act british, we don't do the stiff upper lip

Common courtesy is dead via internet. Faceless masses can be as rude or cold as they want without the fear of getting their front teeth knocked to the back of their head.

On topic, if both men were drunk their judgement was impaired. Would anyone here get in the passenger seat willingly with a person who has been drinking? Sure it happens and people get home and others do not. Step up to bat enough times and you will get hit by a pitch. I walked home a few times and got my car later, got a few cabs, or been the DD for some friends. Sucks that they had to die instead of making rational decisions. This is assuming they were both drunk.

Alright, some people like to say that Ryan Dunn was drunk as hell when he was driving and that he killed an innocent person.

1) Ryan Dunn wasn't drunk, could be that he didn't get completely dorked up and then illogically decide to speed and kill the passenger with him. Really just a bad accident.

2) Ryan Dunn was drunk and sped up, killing both him and his passenger, boo Ryan Dunn is a horrible person and should go to hell for being a bad person!

3) Ryan Dunn was drunk, but his passenger was also drunk. Um... who do we blame for this one? If both of them were drunk, they have no logic between the two and really this was just a bad thing waiting to happen.

4) Ryan Dunn was driving when his passenger(maybe also drunk) decided it would be funny to yank the wheel causing the car to crash.Turns out that it wasn't that funny.

5) There was a third person who was driving and escaped the vehicle with enough time to move Dunn to the driver's seat. Oooh, conspiracy... I bet it was Steve-O, I never trusted the guy.

Perkustin wrote:There is a counterpoint to that argument Albatross.

If he had been drinking and he had survived the crash, he would be under arrest for MANSLAUGHTER or murder depending on the state etc.

You forget that potentially someone else paid the ultimate price for his IDIOCY.

I thought Ahtman had the better counter-point. Plus it's hard to mourn the death of someone you don't know verses someone who's effected your life in some way (like friends, family, etc).

Have I been a bit crass about Dunn's death? Yes I will admit I have been crass. Am I going to apologize? No I'm not going to apologize.

BAC=0.196=No apologies.

The rest of the world accused America of being crass when Bin Laden was killed because in all honesty we were guilty of being crass when Bin Ladin was killed. Since Bin Ladin was already interjected into the debate I'm going to bring up a point with terrorism and drunk driving. In 2001 drunk drivers killed over 17,000 united states citizens within the USA, Al Qaeda killed over 3000. In 2002 drunk drivers killed over 17,000 united states citizens within the USA, Al Qaeda killed 0. In 2003 drunk drivers killed over 17,000 united states citizens within the USA, Al Qaeda killed 0. In 2004 drunk drivers killed almost 17,000 united states citizens within the USA, Al Qaeda killed 0. Dui deaths in the USA have actually declined over the past 10 years producing a 15,000 to 16,000 per year average over the past 10 years. Al Qaeda related deaths within the USA have remained consistently at zero since 2002 producing a 10 year average of 300 deaths per year since 9/11.

In the end the hard math comes to this: Based on a 10 year average the malicious stupidity of dirtbag drunk drivers like Dunn are about 50 times more likely to kill the average American such as myself, my wife, or my children than Al Qaeda's malicious religious fanaticism. If we go to a 20 year average an include the 1st world trade center bombings, Oklahoma city bombings, and Columbine the malicious stupidity of dirtbag drunk drivers like Dunn are well over 100 times more likely to kill the average American such as myself, my wife, or my children than the malicious fanaticism of all terrorists combined. The simple truth is my family and myself is less safe sharing the roads with drunk drivers than I am sharing the planet with terrorists, and neither of them are ever going to go away.

BAC=0.196=No apologies.

schadenfreude wrote:Have I been a bit crass about Dunn's death? Yes I will admit I have been crass. Am I going to apologize? No I'm not going to apologize.

BAC=0.196=No apologies.

The rest of the world accused America of being crass when Bin Laden was killed because in all honesty we were guilty of being crass when Bin Ladin was killed. Since Bin Ladin was already interjected into the debate I'm going to bring up a point with terrorism and drunk driving. In 2001 drunk drivers killed over 17,000 united states citizens within the USA, Al Qaeda killed over 3000. In 2002 drunk drivers killed over 17,000 united states citizens within the USA, Al Qaeda killed 0. In 2003 drunk drivers killed over 17,000 united states citizens within the USA, Al Qaeda killed 0. In 2004 drunk drivers killed almost 17,000 united states citizens within the USA, Al Qaeda killed 0. Dui deaths in the USA have actually declined over the past 10 years producing a 15,000 to 16,000 per year average over the past 10 years. Al Qaeda related deaths within the USA have remained consistently at zero since 2002 producing a 10 year average of 300 deaths per year since 9/11.

In the end the hard math comes to this: Based on a 10 year average the malicious stupidity of dirtbag drunk drivers like Dunn are about 50 times more likely to kill the average American such as myself, my wife, or my children than Al Qaeda's malicious religious fanaticism. If we go to a 20 year average an include the 1st world trade center bombings, Oklahoma city bombings, and Columbine the malicious stupidity of dirtbag drunk drivers like Dunn are well over 100 times more likely to kill the average American such as myself, my wife, or my children than the malicious fanaticism of all terrorists combined. The simple truth is my family and myself is less safe sharing the roads with drunk drivers than I am sharing the planet with terrorists, and neither of them are ever going to go away.

BAC=0.196=No apologies.

Uhm, mathematical dickery aside, you just shouldn't talk about a deceased person that some people might hold closer to them than you. Its about class, and you just shouldn't be a dick when you are talking about someones passing..its not a joke, no matter what he did.

Whilst I do agree that drink driving and causing bodily harm to others isn't a good thing, I feel sorry for Ryan's family and friends, especially Bam Margera and the Margera family.

The death of a friend, and an entertainer is always something that is saddening. Even though Dunn was a *jackass*, he did induce laughter and giggles through his skits, and thats the way that I'll remember him.

schadenfreude wrote:Have I been a bit crass about Dunn's death? Yes I will admit I have been crass. Am I going to apologize? No I'm not going to apologize.

BAC=0.196=No apologies.

The problem wasn't that you were crass, the problem was that you made crass statements without supporting evidence.

There's nothing wrong with being aggressive when the evidence is on your side, but when there is no evidence that aggression just makes you look like an idiot.

dogma wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Have I been a bit crass about Dunn's death? Yes I will admit I have been crass. Am I going to apologize? No I'm not going to apologize.

BAC=0.196=No apologies.

The problem wasn't that you were crass, the problem was that you made crass statements without supporting evidence.

There's nothing wrong with being aggressive when the evidence is on your side, but when there is no evidence that aggression just makes you look like an idiot.

The supporting evidence wasn't released to the public yet, but it was obvious what happened. I used pretty sound logic to found my assumptions about that car crash, and the logic was sound enough that I felt 99.9% certain that my assumptions would be proven correct by the coroner's office. I've also worked with addicts for nearly 20 years. That's long enough to instinctively spot one, and in this case my instincts + logic were correct. I'm not going to apologize for having some expertise in this field. If you have a substance abuse problem there's only 3 options; get clean, go to jail, or die. In the case of Dunn he chose not to get clean, he would have gone to jail for vehicular homicide if he survived the crash, but he eventually chose to die. Dunn chose to die, it was his decision, and now his friends and family have to live with it.

Bam doesn't deserve any sympathy either because all he did over the past 5 years was enable his friend to kill himself. Bam and Dunn's friends knew he was going to kill himself and/or other people behind the wheel of a car and they did nothing about it except profit of Dunn's psychological issues. The youtube video says it all.

http://youtu.be/nNle4SFyYYU