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Ok Mr. Troll,
Wow, No I don’t think he did what if I wanted to go to ground at that time, I could not have, so I don’t think he did make the right call. But hey like I said its ok until it happens to you.

Hey if all GK's need to fight dirty to deamons that’s ok, we just head back to the warp and come back another day.

And I guess it’s ok in your eyes to cheat as long as you win right? Oh I should know my enemy just so they don’t cheat is that what you are saying?

Dr_Chin wrote:No I don’t think he did what if I wanted to go to ground at that time, I could not have

Were your Bloodcrushers using a cover save? If so, then yes you could have, as you are playing on less information than should be available to you (alternatively, if your cover save roll was good enough for a successful Go to Ground save, you should have taken that). However, you made it sound as though you did not have a cover save, and only thought you should get one on the banner model because he was out of LoS. If this is not the case, then why did you think that you should be allowed a reroll for an out of LoS model?

He could only see the tail of one model the others where in a building, the re-roll was because he did not state what one he was model he was targeting, but thinking about the re-roll after the fact I did say to him it did not matter to just continue on with the game. I did not think of going to ground because I never use it.
The TO did ask a player that runs the local group who was in a different game and he could not answer only to say he should have specified.

Reading your responses it seems most of the problems are due to you not knowing any of the relevant rules of the GK. I am unsure where you play, but in my area it is required to have a good army list with in the entries all the wargear/special rules/psychic powers and to exchange them before the game. Also it is almost always recommended to use the first short period of the game to discuss terrain and army specific rules.

Doing this avoids the vast majority of these kind of disputes.

Of course if you are playing in tournaments that do not use open lists this does not apply. The only thing to do is ask if your opponent could keep their codex on the gaming table so you can quickly flip through the rules of the units he is fielding.

We did have a debate before hand about terrain he had put down 3 patches of felt and said they where a forest, I said I don’t think that is correct how do you tell what is a tree for blocking line of sight etc... He said fine then its high grass, I said it should not be if its flat felt it should be nothing, the other terrain was buildings and hills (which was clear what was what) not sure why he carried and put down felt pieces and added them to the board lol, he was not playing wood elves.

But you are correct I type everything on my list every rule and what it does and hand them my list before I started, he just set up. At the time I did not care I just wanted to play against GK's but hind sight is a killer lol.

Dr Chin -= no need for the T word. Seriously

Nowehere in your post did you even hint you were taking a cover save, which is the only time gtg! would have been relevant (as at all otrher times your 5+ would be better than the 6+ "open air" gtg)

You not supplying enough information is not our problem....

Also - assuminmg all GKs need to fight "dirty" to win, is impugning people for no good reason. And no, "being mad" isnt one of them.

Personally the TO made the right call, if it truly made no difference then they made the right call. personaly if you gtg i would *love* it as your opponent, as thats the crushers out the way for a turn.

Next time just give it a second and announce who you are allocating to, give him a moment to say "hey, I'd like to put it on such and such". If he doesn't allocate, he can't choose to after the fact. But in that defence, you shouldn't roll until you know who for sure is allocation. It is more a miscommunication more then anything. What he did with the shunt is fine and legal and is there to piss off every deepstrike army in the game. See if you can get your hands on a copy of the codex sometime and look it up for a bit.. If I ever face a new army I haven't faced yet, I ask my opponent to go over a little bit about each unit so I'm better prepared.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Pedro - all daemons have an invulnerable save.

Cheers Nos,i really need to brush up on my daemon knowledge,i must get their 'dex soon.

I cannot recommend 'knowing your enemy ' enough.I do still need a few more codexes,i like to collect them for the fluff as well as a look at the enemy army.

I buy all codexes on release, Im always interested in how new armies will look and feel, and to make sure I havea passing knowledge of their rules. If youre going to play in tournaments it really does help as well, especially when you know their armies special rules better than they do....

Regarding the inquisitor issue it is possible to get a 4+ invulnerable ion close combat with a regular inquisitor. Just give them terminator armour and a force sword. This would also entitle them to the Hammerhand psychic power. Of course if the model wasn't in terminator armour then the GK player got it wrong.

On the other issues I believe that the GK player probably could have been clearer with whom the assassin was targetting, but there was really no need for a re-roll. Your posts seem a bit whiny. No offense intended here, but it really looks like you were unprepared to face GK's and then get online to have a bit of a moan about the GK player cheating and using underhanded tactics when in fact it was nothing of the sort. The GK player simply sounded like he wanted an easy win against Daemons, had the tools in his list and took the opportunity. If I was in the same situation (i.e a tournament) I would do exactly the same. Honestly what did you want him to do...ignore his most powerful deepstrike defense just to give you a possibility of winning? If I were you I would most definitely learn more about other armies out there so you don't get caught out again.

Knowing your enemy is a really important aspect of the game and one you could brush up on for next time by reading the relevant codexes and learning about what certain units can do.

Good luck in all future events.

The force sword is NOT a nemesis force sword, so no +1Inv save.

Oops...my bad.

Dr_Chin wrote:I don’t think it was a shieldbreaker shot it was a for each wound it does 2 so Bloodcrushers have 2 wounds so if it wounded it is dead, the discussion comes from when he stated what model he was targeting, which was after I announced what model I was taking the wound on and picked up my dice and rolled and failed to save the wound. I did not think that was the correct sequence that it should have happened but the TO agreed with him. So I got a bit pissy, well there were other things going on that kind of got me pissy also.

I think here is the problem.

Your opponent rolled to hit and wound. You then rolled the save. You don't roll saves until the wound has been allocated, and the Vindicare rules allow your opponent to allocate the wound however he wanted. As such, you should have held back from rolling your save until your opponent had finished allocating the wound.

Of course, I wasn't there so I don't know exactly how things happened, but that's the impression I'm getting. If you had said that the wound was going to a specific model and your opponent agreed with you, then you'd be in the right. As it reads, however, it sounds like you rolled your save before your opponent even had the opportunity to allocate the wound.

Also a quick note on the felt... its a woods .. so for infantry they get a cover save. for obscuring for vehilces there would have to be trees. There doesn't have to be trees for infantry to get the cover though. This comes from the parts of area terrrain and cover saves.