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Mechnomancer wrote:As others have said, Daemons rock the house in assault. Where we struggle, is mechanized armies. We need to deal with transports. I don't think anyone will deny that Daemons are terrible at shooting. Very few shots or unreliable shots make for a poor shooting phase. We can assault the transports, but then die to whatever gets out. I use Tzeentch princes to pop transports and assault whatever falls out. This is the most efficient way we can defeat a mech army. It's not ideal, but it's what we got.

Do you just use MOLT/Bolt Princes, or do you give them anything else?


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I was thinking for my 2500 list, just to pimip the hell out of my DP with MOT,Bolt,Breath of Chaos, WIngs, and iron hide to a total of 260 points each..... yeah.

CannedKhorne wrote:

Mechnomancer wrote:As others have said, Daemons rock the house in assault. Where we struggle, is mechanized armies. We need to deal with transports. I don't think anyone will deny that Daemons are terrible at shooting. Very few shots or unreliable shots make for a poor shooting phase. We can assault the transports, but then die to whatever gets out. I use Tzeentch princes to pop transports and assault whatever falls out. This is the most efficient way we can defeat a mech army. It's not ideal, but it's what we got.

Do you just use MOLT/Bolt Princes, or do you give them anything else?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking for my 2500 list, just to pimip the hell out of my DP with MOT,Bolt,Breath of Chaos, WIngs, and iron hide to a total of 260 points each..... yeah.

I give them gaze, so they can fire two weapons a turn. I was thinking of breath, but I got way way more opportunity to gaze, even if it is at something in cover, i might as well be able to use that option (daemon shooting ftw!). Also against AV10 vehicles, bolt+gaze should do the trick, especially vs open topped trukks and the like.

I give them gaze, so they can fire two weapons a turn. I was thinking of breath, but I got way way more opportunity to gaze, even if it is at something in cover, i might as well be able to use that option (daemon shooting ftw!). Also against AV10 vehicles, bolt+gaze should do the trick, especially vs open topped trukks and the like.

CannedKhorne wrote:

I give them gaze, so they can fire two weapons a turn. I was thinking of breath, but I got way way more opportunity to gaze, even if it is at something in cover, i might as well be able to use that option (daemon shooting ftw!). Also against AV10 vehicles, bolt+gaze should do the trick, especially vs open topped trukks and the like.

I can see gaze being useful. What do you think about breath so when they do go into combat they have a support for the MOT prince "weaker" combat ability.

"weaker" is only in the sense you didn't give it CC gifts, which when you look at it, are the +1str bonus (which you probably don't really need), assault/defensive grenades from nurgle and slaanesh, hit and run (slaanesh) and aura of decay (nurgle). A Tzeentch prince is still a ing daemon prince, he still smashes faces in combat, compared to a slaanesh prince he's I5 instead of I6, doesn't have assault/defensive grenades and can't hit and run- to alot of units in the game, like tac marines or transports/vehicles or even walkers (I5 4 attacks with 5+2d6 penetration...) for example, they don't want to punch on with a daemon prince- of ANY flavor! The big downside is that nurgle or Slaaneshi princes will usually have wings to get them into combat quicker, but your a shooty prince with a 4++, so the only point of cover is to block LoS. If you find yourself in charging range of a non-CC dedicated unit, giving them a gaze and charging them is usually a good idea. The problem with breath is the same problem with flamers (not the daemon, the weapons), in that you can deny yourself a charge. I'd put boon as a gift to support the MoT prince's "weaker" combat ability, since you can do it in combat. But for the cost... I don't think its worth it. Breath i see being more worth it, as long as you don't mind losing out on a charge every now and then.

-edit- I must mention I'm loving the spat of daemon threads being posted recently, as it is very hard to find advice or get a discussion going on them

Most of those deamons thread are from me lol. Im just trying to make this list perfect, I just posted my list if you wanna see it. What I meant be weaker is that if he does go into close combat I lose for bolt for at least a turn, which isn't really that big of a deal but that why I bought him.


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So do you think MOT/Bolt/Gaze princes are the way to go in a fatecrusher army?

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:IMO, you either go for MoT Princes with Bolt, or MoN ones with Iron Hide and Flies. Slaanesh princes work OK, especially with Musk and Pavane, but not as good as the above.

Ok, no offense intended, but have you ever even RUN a MoS Daemon Prince? Not as good as the others? That's a crock. A Slaanesh one can cover the field the fastest (princes don't fleet, the Pavane is kind of like a fleet that helps your WHOLE ARMY-except against tanks), hits before most opponents, has assault/defense grenades which are NEEDED in this cover based system, and can hit and run out of units. It won't get tarpitted. Please- it's the best of the 4. If I had 3, I'd run 3; as is, I only have 2. Time to invest in a third as my birthday present to myself. It's really that good. Slaanesh Princes and Greater Daemons are my personal favorites because they don't get bogged down in combat. They can wreck tanks (last I checked, S6+2D6 is pretty good at that), mow through infantry and won't get stuck by fearless units (like big ork units). They are the best. I have won tournaments simply on my Slaanesh Princes (and Flamers) alone. The prince is a close combat monster, when built right. Turning him into a 140pt model that can get a single shot at S8 is a waste. This is my personal rating on Daemon Prince from best to worst:

Slaanesh-see reasons above
Nurgle-kills infantry with ease, relatively cheap, toughest prince, also has assault/defense grenades
Tzeentch-lends fire support that others don't have, best invul save, no grenades, can't escape combat if he gets caught, in which case he becomes almost useless (can still fight though)
Khorne-has one extra attack (whoop-di-doo), has BotBG (very good against Grey Knights). Nothing else going for him really. Everyone else does it better
Plain Prince-Not much special about this guy. leave him at home. His only benefit is being the cheapest.

A Daemon army is based on getting close and hitting hard. Use it as such. Shooting isn't their strong suit, so why focus on something the army isn't good at? It's a melee army. Using it as anything else is a mistake. If you want cheap bolts, take units of horrors as troops. Sure they're only BS3, but they won't be wasting some of your best CC units only firing at tanks. I recognize this game is tank-heavy right now. I do. But if your opponent has to move 12 to get away from you, most of his tanks aren't firing. If you can keep him from firing, you'll eventually get him. Even if you need 6s to hit, you'll roll them at some point. It works. Having done this first hand, I know what I'm talking about.

We get you like the Slaanesh Princes but the biggest issue is T5. The Nurgle and Tzeentch flavors are more versatile to most people because they are much less fragile with either T6 or 4++. It all depends on the synergy you get with the combo of your list and your playstyle. You are rocking the Slaanesh Princes and made that clear, in almost every other situation with any other player they are 3rd best. You can preach the strengths of the Slaanesh Prince you just might want to add a YMMV to it because if you play them you know they require finesse and list synergy to work well, while 3 T6 monsters or 3 BS5 bolt shooters will almost always work within a Fatecrusher list.

Yes, I have played all flavors and do regularly. He was asking for the best Prince in a Fatecrusher build. Slaanesh just isn't it.

Can both of you guys go check out my list in 40k Army List forums please, that will help make the decision, atm I have 30 Hounds and debating on addings 6 fiends so I not sure If I really need the speed although I already have 12 bolts anyway.... lol.

Actually, the biggest problem with the Slaanesh Prince isn't its T5, it's their price. They quickly become the most expensive prince (good stuff doesn't come cheaply).

And, I think they are worthwhile in the Fatecrusher list too: if my opponent is shooting at the princes, he isn't shooting at the crushers or Fateweaver. If he shoots at the crushers or Fateweaver, the prince will eat him in CC. Fateweaver is the biggest threat: he is keeping the rest of my army alive. Chances are, he will be targetted first, giving the princes a lot more survivability. They do require work, but when I played Fatecrusher a couple times, they were always there (and at least one survived, if not both in the list).

I recognize that I play the army differently than just about everyone else: I stand by Bloodthirsters and Keepers of Secrets, occasionally Bullseye (I mean Fateweaver) as my HQ; never heralds of Tzeentch on chariots. I also stand by Slaanesh and Nurgle Princes-and boy do I recognize the cheap/awesome builds of the Nurgle Princes. They're great. I'll never argue that. I just think that Nurgle's and Tzeentch's drawbacks are larger than Slaanesh's. IMO, 'Hit and Run' is more valuable than 4++ or T6. But, since you requested it: YMMV.

How do you upgrade your MOS princes?

Iron Hide, Unholy Might, MoS (probably obvious ), Pavane, Soporific Musk, Aura of Acquiescence, occasionally wings (wings are VERY pricey though). Usually I leave the wings off unless it's a high point game. People will probably be shocked at that, but...hey. It works for me *shrug.* The Pavane helps a lot with the lack of wings. Obviously Pavane doesn't work against tanks, but the list still runs pretty well. It also makes the prince not as pricey, meaning more goodies for the rest of the army

Pavane is a cheep fleet really. Also synergizes really nicely with flamers imho

In all respects, Pavane is a poor man's fleet-it's a fleet that you have to pass a shooting test to get off, THEN see how much it does for you, and it's useless against vehicles. However, as you said, it's amazing when combined with Flamers and it has it's uses if it goes off against infantry and helps multiple units close the gap. I don't leave home without it on any models that don't have fleet (that can take it).

OK, I think it really depends on the points you're playing and the rest of the list. My suggestions on an earlier page are, I suppose, the minimum I would run. Yes, if I had the points, a Prince with MoT would be great with Breath, Gaze, Bolt, MoS, WAL and Flight....but as a mimimum, Bolt would be fine;same for MoN.

I like Slaanesh princes, I realy do, but I just find Nurgle ones much more durable, and Tzeench ones are a bit more useful, in my experience, v mech-thats all....

CannedKhorne wrote:

Mechnomancer wrote:As others have said, Daemons rock the house in assault. Where we struggle, is mechanized armies. We need to deal with transports. I don't think anyone will deny that Daemons are terrible at shooting. Very few shots or unreliable shots make for a poor shooting phase. We can assault the transports, but then die to whatever gets out. I use Tzeentch princes to pop transports and assault whatever falls out. This is the most efficient way we can defeat a mech army. It's not ideal, but it's what we got.

Do you just use MOLT/Bolt Princes, or do you give them anything else?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking for my 2500 list, just to pimip the hell out of my DP with MOT,Bolt,Breath of Chaos, WIngs, and iron hide to a total of 260 points each..... yeah.

At 2500, go nuts. Flight on all princes for sure. I run them with just bolt and gaze. I've tried every other build, but keep coming back to Tzeentch for the reasons I stated above. I run seekers and or fiends for things i need to chase down.