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I have a Fatecrusher army and was wonder, what is the best build for deamon princes? Im going to run 3 of them was wondering with the cost and the ability of the prince what is the best build.

- MOT/Bolt (140) or + demonic gaze for (160)
- MON... etc (200+)
- MOK...etc (190+)

Please post Really need help here.

Mark of Khorne sucks: he gives you nothing special as extra, other than the blessing of the blood god. You'd be better off with Mark of Nurgle for assault/defense grenades and a 2+ to wound ability with T6 OR Mark of Slaanesh for better speed, assault/defense grenades and hit and run. Those are the two best in my opinion. Mark of Tzeentch I haven't ever run, but for some reason he's a fan favorite. Just stay away from Khorne-he isn't worth the points.

Well MOT/Bolt/Gaze princes are only 160 points. I agree with you on the khorne prince, but which is better between MOT and MON, pared with a Fatecrusher list?. Do I need the fire support or the speed to charge in... and the speed to group up A LOT faster with the fatecrusher, thats the biggest benifit with wings is the ability to be in excellent position lol.

I'd say a MoN and a MoS prince, both with wings for movement, and maybe even Pavane on the Slaanesh Prince so you can move your opponent's units closer since the princes don't fleet. I personally don't like the Tzeentch Prince: I'd rather have a daemon prince who can assault well and take an assault, rather than a shooty model. Daemons are an assault based army and I feel giving them a shooty prince is more of a handicap than a bonus.

If you are running a Bloodthirster then take Tzeentch Princes and keep them close to Fateweaver for fire support. If you are running Fateweaver and 2 Chariot Heralds then I would run the Nurgle Princes and use them as your assault punch. The Slaanesh and Khorne Princes are best in 1500 or less point games... they just don't have the INV or T to stick around under medium/heavy fire.

Seeing how I run 2 Slaanesh Princes at every point level above 1000pts and a Nurgle Prince as well...and they always make back their points...I'd like to respectfully disagree with that statement that they only belong in 1500pt or less games. They rock. Hit and Run is an amazing ability and NEEDS to be utilized when possible.

They must work within the structure of your list... are you all fast? If you are putting on pressure from the start with Fiends, Daemonettes, etc then I can see how they work for you. That just proves that any Prince build will work if properly supported by the rest of your army.

They work very well: they come down fast (if my opponent doesn't deploy first turn, all the better: they can drop and be able to assault as soon as my opponent hits. If my opponent does hit, flamers drop first: opponents have to target them or risk losing full units each turn, giving the princes high survival rates. The synergy of my army is really good.

Go tzeentch or go home. You're fatecrusher, so your blood crushers are your combat, you're daemons so you should have at least one unit of fiends for mobility. Now you're looking for something to fill out heavy support. You won't find a better shooting platform in the list than a tzeentch daemon prince and if they're close enough you can re-roll their already awesome invulnerable. You need some ability to affect you opponent at range.

Yeah...minus the fact that running some of your best CC ideas as shooting platforms is terrible. I speak from plenty of experience: Slaanesh and Nurgle are great. The other two...you're wasting space. Take a couple of heralds on chariots for shooting and use the princes like they are supposed to be: in combat.

They aren't even close to being your best cc platforms. You have the fatecrusher juggernaut and a stack of fiends that will do a much better job for the same points. Use your heavy support as heavy support. You can't get into combat with stuff in transports, so you need a shooter to empty them first!

Hmm have to disagree on the fact tzeentch are bad. Nothing like having a unit that can sit and re-roll invulnerable saves while taking out light tanks/meq on the turn they land.

ninjad

Well, seeing how I've won about 90% of my daemon games, never using a tzeentch one at all, taking the list to tournaments...I'm sticking with my CC daemon princes. Enjoy your Tzeentch ones, but I've never seen any reason to take them.

In my experience MoN or MoT are the best choices for a demon prince. Both options give the DP greater survivability. I generally prefer MoT, but either are good options.

In my casual demon list I take MoT with bolt, gaze, and wings. In my tournament fatecrusher list I just don't have the points for the wings or even gaze so I run three DPs with bolt. They do just fine. They are good shooting platforms and can still hold their own in CC.

Ultimately, I'd suggest trying out different DP builds and finding which one you prefer, and which suits your army build the best.

timetowaste85 wrote:Well, seeing how I've won about 90% of my daemon games, never using a tzeentch one at all, taking the list to tournaments...I'm sticking with my CC daemon princes. Enjoy your Tzeentch ones, but I've never seen any reason to take them.

What does your list look like? I'm working on a daemons army and love seeing what sorts of ideas people are having success with.

Sure, I'll PM you a list, as I do for anyone who asks. Tell you how it works, the ins and outs, and try for yourself. I've had good luck with the stuff I run, and usually mix it up a bit, but I always include a mix of all the gods. I know that isn't fluffy, but...it works for the game.

Well, everyone at my shop tells me that MOT/Bolt is the best way to go and I tryed it out and it didn't work as well as winged princes. Just beacause I can get to the fateweaver and keep my army extremely easily. I have 4 bolts already so hopefully that is one tank, but an extra 3 is nice for a lot less points compared to wings. Thats the problem is the point to ability ratio better?


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Also if you have a MON princes do you even need unholy might if you get noxious touch?

I didn't mention this in the email, but NEVER take unholy might on your Nurgle prince. It is a waste of points. S5 with re-rolls against almost every enemy infantry model is worth it alone, don't pay the expensive upgrade as you'll find it isn't worth it

I think im going to go with nurgle princes for 215 points each...., now that I have that decision made. For fatecrusher at 2500 for ard boyz should you run 12 or is 8 plenty?

215, I assume you put wings on? Yeah, that'll work at 2500. I haven't taken Fatecrusher to an Ard Boyz. Just tried it locally. Like I said, it's unfortunately not too great competitively because it requires even more luck than a regular daemon list. I would always take a unit of 6 fiends though for a tourney: the 19-24" charge range with S5(6), 6A, and rending is too good not to take. I would still take at least one Slaanesh Prince, for the hit and run option: makes for more attacks for you and he can run out of combat during your opponents turn. He also won't get bogged down by hordes-which is the easiest way to take out a monsterous creature-keeping it out of the game.

For fatecrushers 8 bloodcrushers are enough right? 12 is just too much to deepstrike close to each other.

Also, 215 pts a prince is a lot. I have the option of spamming bloodletters (50) or getting 5 squads of 5 (25) and then get some seekers or fiends in there with my pts for 2500. I know your saying that 5 man squads of bloodletters suck but believe or not when they come in on icons and have A LOT of stuff infront of them they get completely ignored and then charge in and kill something 5 bloodletters is still extremely deadly to damn near anything.

Issue with 5 man 'letter squads is cover for the most part. Enemy sits in cover, and if its something like a 5 man grey hunter squad they swing with 15 attacks, 7.5 hits, 3.75 wounds, 2-3 dead letters before they swing. That takes quite the sting out of the letters, and this is after the greyhunters get a shooting phase with rapidfire bolters.

Now its not always like this, but it happens often enough that you need 2 letter squads to reliably deal with 1 enemy squad, and at that point you lose the battle of attrition.

For troops in my fatecrusher list I spam horrors. 6x5 with bolt, 1 with an icon. At 95 points apiece, save for the icon unit, you are getting a real bargain. I used to mix 4x5 horrors with 2x5 plaguebearers. The PBs are much more resilient, of course, but I prefer having the extra bolts to throw around, and horrors do get a 4++ anyway, so that helps them stay in the fight. I feel that if my opponent is going to use resources to get at my horrors, then that's better for my crushers and DPs, who are there to do the real damage.

I like the idea of horror spam because thats a lot of anti with little points and that corresponds with the winged princes instead of them being MOT/BOlt. I think I may do that with the horrors. Although atm I don't own an horrrs lol. You think bloodletter spam works well, and how many crushers are suspose to by with fatecrusher I find 8 to be pleny and 12 crushers is a little cramped on the table all within 6 inches.

8 is enough, at least in my opinion, if you really want more, make 2 squads of 5. Little harder to kill, little more punch. But larger footprint.
I would agree with the aforementioned other posts regarding fiends, a 6 man squad of fiends mixed in with crushers can deal absurd amounts of damage. They may not be powerweapon attacks, but they have rending,a nd 6 attacks on the charge. With a 19-24 threat range. They are a scary unit against any army. As for spamming horrors or letters, or plagues. I actually prefer a mix, It may seem odd, but I like 1-2 squads of horrors, 1 with changeling, 1 with bolt, 1-2 squads bearers for holding objectives or even a bit of extra melee tarpitting. Then maybe a squad of bloodletters, as on the charge a 10 man squad can do work. I still do not like the idea of 5 man squads, but if they work for you...go for it.
215 nurgle prince is a great prince with noxious tough/wings/hide, he is quite resilliant, just dont get tarpitted by 30 boyz.
Just my take on my daemons so far.

I don't know.... I really like the idea of horror spam with bolt, seems like a lot of anti tank and still good objective holders. Im either going to run all horrrors or 1 squad with changling and then like 50 bloodletters.

Is it smart to have a fast attack in a fatecrusher list to add tons of speed on top of winged princes
?

I've found Tzeentch bolt/gaze princes fill my list nicely. I needed the extra AT punch for taking down transports, and they have worked quite well for me. Also against MEQ's they do quite well, especially when you can catch them out of cover. Not turning down the MoN/MoS princes, as with some more models I'll have some more options for my army, and will definitely be switching to some winged slaaneshi or nurgle princes to give them a crack. Hit and run winged monstrous creatures? Yes, Please! My question for those who run them is whether or not Iron Hide is worth it, as a 5++ makes me cringe.


Also, I totally agree with the timetowaste on the khorne princes, they do look fairly sucky.

IMO, you either go for MoT Princes with Bolt, or MoN ones with Iron Hide and Flies. Slaanesh princes work OK, especially with Musk and Pavane, but not as good as the above.

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:IMO, you either go for MoT Princes with Bolt, or MoN ones with Iron Hide and Flies. Slaanesh princes work OK, especially with Musk and Pavane, but not as good as the above.

MON with only iron hide and flies? Why do you like MOT/Bolt so much? What does it do besides shot a bolt of change off of a 140 point model once a turn?

As others have said, Daemons rock the house in assault. Where we struggle, is mechanized armies. We need to deal with transports. I don't think anyone will deny that Daemons are terrible at shooting. Very few shots or unreliable shots make for a poor shooting phase. We can assault the transports, but then die to whatever gets out. I use Tzeentch princes to pop transports and assault whatever falls out. This is the most efficient way we can defeat a mech army. It's not ideal, but it's what we got.