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I think the OP's point was why not at any point in the last 10k years, presumably at some point in history when Sol was less well defended. Sure its an impenetrable fortress NOW, but how about during the Age of Apostasy, or soon after the HH?

Unfortunately this is one of those questions so open-ended that there can be no proper answer, beyond "GW said so." The siege of terra was supposed to be the biggest battle ever, you'd think at least the orks would gleefully try to crash the party.

Earth is plot-armoured with 500 AU of tempered Kurita-Hawkins battle steel...

Another question- what about the time previous to 30000?

The Orks, for example, are everywhere else, so why not sol system?

The Necrons have been to Sol system, but are dormant..

Nids weren't here yet.

The Edar probably came through, saw humans as filthy little monkeys throwing nukes around and left before they got contaminated...

Brother Coa wrote:
And most people agree that Tyranids would nom the Emperor...

No they don't.

Good god, it's like you're reading an entirely different set of background material than the rest of us.

I'd give them an even chance, if the plotline was allowed to advance and the IOM's autowin button was disconnected.


If we follow GW's usual writing though, they have no chance, and neither does anyone else, because the imperium isn't allowed to lose

To be fair, Sol IS very well-defended, no, the most defended system in the galaxy, the idea of Leviathan actually making it to Terra and eating the Emperor is very implausible.

Unless something insane happens like every Necron in the galaxy getting on their ships and teleporting into Sol happens, who then proceed to free the Void Dragon, Sol is basically impregnable, for now at least. I admit something may happen that changes that, but... That assumes GW will progress the storyline to any signifigant extent.

well the current fluff suggests that the current hive fleets are all thats left and the Nid threat is smaller then initially belived.

the Nids are heading to Terra after the Emperor's psychic beacon.

but the Nid fleets don't stand a chance against Terra's defenses.

sure they would get pretty far in, but eventually they would all be destroyed.


the Emperor might even temporarly stop broadcasting the Astronomican and vaporise the Nids personally.

The Emperor has never done something like that, not after being laid low by Horus. He is effectively dead in the Materium.

completely incorrect.

he is why Deamons find it hard to manifest in the material world. he is keeping the veil thick so they can't do it easily.


read some descriptive fluff on the Emperor, he is far from dead in the Immaterium.

Grey Templar wrote:completely incorrect.

he is why Deamons find it hard to manifest in the material world. he is keeping the veil thick so they can't do it easily.


read some descriptive fluff on the Emperor, he is far from dead in the Immaterium.

Please reread what you just replied to.

Specifically the "Materium" part.

Materium is diffrent than Immaterium so if he is useless in the Materium and not in the Immaterium. In essence he is all but dead in the materium but willfully alive in the Immaterium.

Now on from that Nids have the greatest chance regardless of the forces. Most likely they will wait until another hive gets closer before attacking enmasse.

moostake


But he is still able to manipulate things in the real world, he communicates his will via the Emperor's Tarot for example.


when Guardsmen chant "the Emperor protects" its not just an empty mantra. He does intervene when and where he can. it takes most of his concentration to "Winnow the warp" but some of his conciousness does drift among his subjects and he hears their cries.

Grey Templar wrote:moostake


But he is still able to manipulate things in the real world, he communicates his will via the Emperor's Tarot for example.


when Guardsmen chant "the Emperor protects" its not just an empty mantra. He does intervene when and where he can. it takes most of his concentration to "Winnow the warp" but some of his conciousness does drift among his subjects and he hears their cries.

True, he can influence the Materium in ways by exerting himself, but not in ways as major as "Make the Tyranids go awak gg."

IIRC he has stopped time once, that being his greatest display of power in the Materium since "dying."

well, we don't know that.


keeping the Astronomican burning is pretty dang important and he isn't going to stop doing it unless something BIG is goind down, like Nids coming to nom his fat arse.

He is far more powerful now then he was in his mortal form(as his powers have less limitations due to being mortal flesh and blood) so he could just up and squash the Nids with one psychic uppercut.


He is the only thing to be able to genuinily threaten the Chaos Gods(him and Emperor 2.0, better known as Draigo) so that is pretty powerful.

if Khorne suddenly decided he wanted Nid skulls and came down to spank the Hive Mind it would be an Epic battle, but one Khorne would probably win. Emperor is = to or greater then Khorne.

I am sorry but do consider what the hive mind is.

The Hive mind is a being of such magnigtude that not only does it control beings that number more than the stars themselves but does this from possibly another galaxy or more away. It also does this with such clarity that it remembers every battle, every hero slain.

Now to add on that the Tyranids still flee from every tomb world they come near. . . .

Grey Templar wrote:well, we don't know that.


keeping the Astronomican burning is pretty dang important and he isn't going to stop doing it unless something BIG is goind down, like Nids coming to nom his fat arse.

He is far more powerful now then he was in his mortal form(as his powers have less limitations due to being mortal flesh and blood) so he could just up and squash the Nids with one psychic uppercut.


He is the only thing to be able to genuinily threaten the Chaos Gods(him and Emperor 2.0, better known as Draigo) so that is pretty powerful.

if Khorne suddenly decided he wanted Nid skulls and came down to spank the Hive Mind it would be an Epic battle, but one Khorne would probably win. Emperor is = to or greater then Khorne.

Only Khorne could not do crap to the Hive Mind, because Khorne cannot physically manifest, no Chaos God could.

And IMHO, Khorne is far more powerful than the Hive Mind.

But yes, the Emperor is more powerful... In the Immaterium. Physically, he cannot move, hell, he is rotting. He used to be able to maintain the Astronomicon while walking around, did he not?

OH forgot to add something about the Hive Mind. It has the unique capability of paraih gene and uses it at such strength that it clouds 2-3 solar systems away from its tendrils. The only problem with that is that even though it is strong it does not permantly block the Psyker's power but makes it extremly difficult to channel its power.

Lysenis wrote:OH forgot to add something about the Hive Mind. It has the unique capability of paraih gene and uses it at such strength that it clouds 2-3 solar systems away from its tendrils. The only problem with that is that even though it is strong it does not permantly block the Psyker's power but makes it extremly difficult to channel its power.

Um, what?

It's, uh, not the Pariah Gene, unless Deceiver is responsible for the Tyranids, it cannot be the Pariah Gene.

It is actually different, to an extent, the Shadow in the Warp is more akin to a smothering psychic signal, making accessing the Warp difficult. IIRC, it also can only harm psykers if they try to use any of their powers (Though I could be wrong about this one in particular).

The Pariah Gene, as seeded in humanity, is explicitly anti-Warp. It makes them resistant or immune to the power of the Warp, and can seriously hurt or even kill Psykers with their presence, the most powerful Pariahs/Blanks IIRC can even kill a Greater Daemon in this way.

TBH it is another of those logical flaws in the plot which can only be explained by assuming that rather than being a carefully worked out coherent work, the 40K universe is a munged together lump of semi-random borrowings which have been crudely ret-conned to achieve the situation now in M41.

Yes Blanks can do this but if you read Horus Heresy books like "Thousand Sons" the Pariah gene does block access to the warp over a distance depending on the strength of the gene. The Astronomicons on planets use Psykers to send their signals. So the Shadow of the Warp blocks that.

Please also realize the Genestealers steal the genes of the beings they take over and then pass it on to the Hive fleet that turns them back into biomass and thus back to the Hive Mind. Interesting is it not?

The overall likelyhood that the Tyranids have absorbed at least 1 human that has the Pariah gene is actually quite likely. Sadly 1 is all it would take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kilkrazy brings up a valid point again.

Lysenis wrote:Yes Blanks can do this but if you read Horus Heresy books like "Thousand Sons" the Pariah gene does block access to the warp over a distance depending on the strength of the gene. The Astronomicons on planets use Psykers to send their signals. So the Shadow of the Warp blocks that.

Please also realize the Genestealers steal the genes of the beings they take over and then pass it on to the Hive fleet that turns them back into biomass and thus back to the Hive Mind. Interesting is it not?

The overall likelyhood that the Tyranids have absorbed at least 1 human that has the Pariah gene is actually quite likely. Sadly 1 is all it would take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kilkrazy brings up a valid point again.

Only the Shadow of the Warp is synonymous with the Tyranids, it has been in existence since they first showed up, and keep in mind the two are fundamentally different in function. It is not merely a matter of distance, it is a matter of function, Shadow in the Warp is smothering psychic signal, Pariah Gene is the anti-psychich, totally.

It is not far-fetched to say the Tyranids could not manipulate the Pariah Gene to their own ends, Necron technology is advanced to a degree beyond anyone else in the galaxy, and this was the work of the Deceiver itself IIRC, a living god for whom the Laws of Physics are not even guidelines.

Also, it kind of is. Pariahs/Blanks are very rare.

I see the Shadow in the Warp as being a powerful psychic signal, rather than a null/pariah.

Pariahs are sinkholes in the warp, the opposite of a psyker.

Tyranids project psychic jamming, which is an overabundance of signals that distort and block any signal trying to get through it.

As an analogy, imagine a radio playing Brahms. Pariahs would cut the cable, shutting off the signal. Nids would project a more powerful signal (lets say a cooking show ) that bleeds into the concert and finally eclipses the signal until the music is buried beneath 'and here's one i made earlier...'

I always thought that, unlike the C'tan, the Hive Mind exists within the Warp, and is thus vulnerable to warp based entities like the Chaos God and the Emperor.

Lysenis wrote:The Hive mind is a being of such magnigtude that not only does it control beings that number more than the stars themselves but does this from possibly another galaxy or more away.

I thought that the whole point of the hive mind was that it was actually a hive mind? You seem to suggest that it is a single entity controlling all of the Tyranids, whereas I always thought that it was an amalgamation of the many different Tyranid organisms. This would make it like a decentralised network, not really exsisting in any one place. The diffenrent levels of synapse creatures simply link the different levels of the network together.

Am I completely wrong in my thinking?

Anyway, on topic, I don't think that much would have a chance if it enterred Sol. The Emperor's own flagship protects it and the moon is basically a giant weapon platform. Sol makes Cadia look like a feral world.

No the Tyranids would lose unless they could muster a fleet that was larger than the system; the Imperial defences are too great and powerful for even a Hive fleet. It would take a while but still the Tyranids would be vaporized, I'd say the Necron fleet would have a slight chance with their powerful ships but still the Imperial defensive force is extremely large and well equipped. I don't know where you get the idea that allot of people believe that the Tyranids would devour the emperor because I've never really seen that many people believe that, It’s not happening until the Tyranids can create a massive fleet and still they'd have extreme difficulty getting past the defence.

A tyranid Hive Fleet about twice the size of Kraken, or alternatively a massive Chaos fleet, entering from above or below the Galactic Plain (or a nearby Warp Rift) could knife down strait on to Terra and distract them badly enough to make the IoM panic and withdraw from hundreds of battles to aid them, making the galaxy much easier to nom. Of course, the attacking fleet would be vapourised quickly, but as a distraction it would work wonders.

Alternatively, the Dragon could wake up, call hundreds of Necron ships to Terra and possibly take it, considering that Mars is hinted to be a tomb world and all casualties could be sent back in to the fight in no time. It would be a very close thing, though.
I personally think the Necron ships that landed on Mars were planning to do just that-be teleported to the tomb complex, be rebuilt and awake the Dragon. Then there would be an epic fight, and one of those Guardians of the Dragon guys who can repair anything with a touch would be called back to Terra and touch the Golden Throne, sealing the rift and allowing the rest of the Emp's soul to return to his body, all the primarches would awake and every major race would converge on Terra with their own aims, causing the most apocalyptic war since the HH. A nerd can dreem...

EDIT: Oh, and who knows what the Shadow in the Warp would do to the Astronomican. The Emporer could have to intervene himself and have a huge psychic battle with the Hive Mind, resulting in critical levels of awesome and a rupture in the very fabric of our own reality.

The Orks don't know where Sol is. Why would they? It's possible that a Waaagh could stumble onto the system, but a single Orkish Waaagh wouldn't have the force needed to truly threaten Terra. Sure, it might make for a couple of good battles, but the Orks would be crushed before too long.

Apparently GW defanged the Tyranids, as they've gone from a limitless, extra-galactic menace incapable of being defeated to a dying race that keeps exhausting itself with fruitless Hive Fleet invasions . The vast majority of the biomass found in Sol is located in the Inner Planets, and I think this fact alone does in the Tyranids. They would make a mad push towards Terra, as it provides them with the greatest feeding grounds, but they wouldn't get past the Imperial Navy. There just don't seem to be any worlds among the outer planets that would enable to Tyranids to get a quick toehold in Sol to sustain the assault.

The military presence in the Sol System outclasses the entire Tau Empire already. Even if the Tau could make it to Sol, it would be their death. Now, if the Tau had 10,000 years of continuous war under their belt, it might make for a more even contest.

Neither the Eldar nor the Dark Eldar are in a position to invade Sol. The Eldar don't have the resources, and the Dark Eldar don't have the motivation.

Necrons seem to be the only force in the galaxy that can deal with the Imperial Navy, so that also means that they're the only Xenos race that could credibly threaten Sol. Once you disable the fleet, you can begin attacking the worlds of the Sol System individually, instead of having to contend with the combined resources of Terra and Mars. Indeed, if you could trap the population of Terra on world and prevent anyone from reaching them, it would be pretty easy to starve that planet to death (since, with a population that large, they absolutely cannot sustain themselves). The only problem with that is the imminent arrival of the rest of the Imperium's armies which would come into the system in order to break the siege.

Why don't the aliens attack Sol? Because even without plot armor, it's a losing prospect.

The way of beating the Sol system would be to knock out the nearby agri-world systems and let it wither on the vine.

Kilkrazy wrote:The way of beating the Sol system would be to knock out the nearby agri-world systems and let it wither on the vine.

Yup, Colony Wars style (more or less).

SkaerKrow wrote:
The military presence in the Sol System outclasses the entire Tau Empire already. Even if the Tau could make it to Sol, it would be their death. Now, if the Tau had 10,000 years of continuous war under their belt, it might make for a more even contest.

I imagine that by the time Tau strike force reach Sol they would accept Imperial Creed

Trickstick wrote:

Lysenis wrote:The Hive mind is a being of such magnigtude that not only does it control beings that number more than the stars themselves but does this from possibly another galaxy or more away.

I thought that the whole point of the hive mind was that it was actually a hive mind? You seem to suggest that it is a single entity controlling all of the Tyranids, whereas I always thought that it was an amalgamation of the many different Tyranid organisms. This would make it like a decentralised network, not really exsisting in any one place. The diffenrent levels of synapse creatures simply link the different levels of the network together.

Am I completely wrong in my thinking?

Anyway, on topic, I don't think that much would have a chance if it enterred Sol. The Emperor's own flagship protects it and the moon is basically a giant weapon platform. Sol makes Cadia look like a feral world.

that is exactly how the Hive Mind operates.


if a Hive Fleet loses all its synapse creatures and only a few gaunts are left on some random planet, but they manage to thoroughly infest it. eventually the Hive Mind will remerge in that location due to the concentration of Nids there.

its like a Psychic entity which is connected through the warp and psychically controls the lesser creatures which make up its race.

the Hive Mind is basically a chaos god in its own right as for its massive psychic power and presense. its probably one of Tzeench's creations ultimate chaos which has no greater purpose other then to feed itself.