Is eldar a viable Competative army??

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**notabot187**

Yuber wrote:SO the nightspinner: Can it be used? It does not appear in the codex.

Well, it comes down to event organizers allowing it then. I would say its ok, GW has printed entire codexes in WD before. Also its not exactly the best weapon in the world, and its not like eldar are an over powered army.

**schadenfreude**

Mahtamori wrote:
Yuber wrote:Ok. WTH is a nightspinner? I cant see one in the Codex =/

July White Dwarf last year I believe it was. Take a Fire Prism, replace the weapon with Shadow Weavers, add a special rule that makes units hit suffer from difficult and dangerous terrain.

S6 AP- Rending
Range 12-72"
Large Blast, Barrage
Twin linked

It webs every unit that it hits, and does not need to inflict a single wound. Webbed units take difficult and dangerous terrain tests in both the movement phase if they move, and assault phase if they attempt to assault. Multiple units can be webbed with a single shot, because the large pie only needs to partially touch 1 model from each unit for the entire unit to be webbed. The large pie is twin linked which means it gets a re roll to hit making it an very accurate weapon even with a BS 3 backing it.

Now time for my minority opinion.

Shadow weavers>Fire prisims.

1 night spinner versus 1 fire prism against MEQ or in cover
1 TL shot at S6 rending> 1 shot a S5 AP4

2 night spinners versus 2 fire prisms against MEQ
2 TL shots at S6 rending>1 shot at S6 AP3
Math hammer
Each night spinner hit has a 7/18 chance of killing a MEQ (1/6 chance of rend + 2/9 chance of wound + failed armor save)
Each Fire prism hit has a 5/6 chance of wounding a MEQ which translates to a 15/18 chance of killing a MEQ or 83.333%
2 night spinners doubles the number of hits and thus doubles chance of killing which translates to a 14/18 chance of killing a MEQ or 77.777%
All of that being said 14/18>15/18, now you may be asking yourself "Shadenfreude what kind of Fubard LA unified school district math were you victimized with as a child?

14/18>15/18 for because of many reasons, here are my top 4

#1 The 14/18 is twin linked and will produce more hits, and the additional hits will produce more casualties than a 1/18 improvement in the quality of hits that the fire prism provides.

#2 If the MEQ have cover the 15/18 will be cut in half.

#3 If 1 of the 2 tanks is shaken or stunned it reverts back to 1 TL shot at S6 rending> 1 shot a S5 AP4.

#4 3/18 of the survivors will die next turn if they move, and another 3/18 will die if the unit assaults. The last time I checked my faulty LAUSD math 3/18>1/18.

**Flavius Infernus**

schadenfreude wrote: The last time I checked my faulty LAUSD math 3/18>1/18.

Yeah, but neither 1/18 nor 3/18 is very good. A bog-standard scatterlaser at about 10/18 (not even twinlinked) shows just how small those odds are for a 115+ point tank.

Also hopefully everyone has figured out you can avoid mass casualties from dangerous terrain tests by moving only one model in the unit in the following turn to shake off the effect. Only the model that moves takes the test. Slows the unit down, but for some big units it would be worth it.

**schadenfreude**

Flavius Infernus wrote:
schadenfreude wrote: The last time I checked my faulty LAUSD math 3/18>1/18.

Yeah, but neither 1/18 nor 3/18 is very good. A bog-standard scatterlaser at about 10/18 (not even twinlinked) shows just how small those odds are for a 115+ point tank.

Also hopefully everyone has figured out you can avoid mass casualties from dangerous terrain tests by moving only one model in the unit in the following turn to shake off the effect. Only the model that moves takes the test. Slows the unit down, but for some big units it would be worth it.

Those were relative increases. The actual stats would be 17/18>15/18, but imo shooting a unit twice with a spnner is a waste. The ideal # of spinners is 1, save the other 2 force orgs for war walkers or falcons.

Need to double check the wd myself, but from what I remember there is no shaking off the webs. The webbed unit is stuck being webbed through their entire turn regardless if they move or not, and it goes away next turn regardless if they move or not.

**Roadkill Zombie**

Nope, the Web goes away after they move, wether it is movement in the movement phase or the assult phase.

**Eyesedragon**

CIAbugguy wrote:I think I am going to have to give them a try, the jet bike seer council sounds cool, and war walkers look neat so ill start with painting those and work from there. It will give me a challenge in battle and be a little different to play than my iron hands or my Necrons.

Thanks for the tips, harlequins sound like they would be decent in close combat, is the fact they cant get transports why they are normally frowned apon

Harlies are expensive and fragile for what they do and you need a doomseer backing them up to make them effective. In mechdar they can grab a fire dragon ws after they unload but typically when it comes to eldar leave the assault to the jetcouncil, and even they are not that great ... Most people spam firedragons (3x) in 1500+ to be competitve and harlies stick out like a sore thumb in a mech list and thats why people dont usually show any love for em . Fritz a popular eldar player has a ton of vids and even runs a full harly footdar list http://www.youtube.com/user/WayOfSaimHann?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/0/TpjrXlOKsnU check it out.

**Master Melta**

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Also hopefully everyone has figured out you can avoid mass casualties from dangerous terrain tests by moving only one model in the unit in the following turn to shake off the effect. Only the model that moves takes the test. Slows the unit down, but for some big units it would be worth it.

Good point! However, if that unit of 30 boyz only moves 1 boy, that's a win!

Same goes for lots of units I don't want any closer to my squish eldar. My range is 36 inches and I can move 12 and fire to full effect with all those wave serpents. Giddy up non-moving/non-threatening bad guys. Stay put and I'll continue to saturate you to death.

MM

**Murenius**

Master Melta wrote:
Good point! However, if that unit of 30 boyz only moves 1 boy, that's a win!
MM

So true. Especially with Eldar this leaves you much needed room to bring your cc into position and to punish them with another round of shots. Even if it is only 2 or 3 frag rockets from an EML will do evul stuff to a 30 nobz unit.

Another situation I can think of: you unloaded your DA to reduce the mob. Then you shoot your night spinner at the mob and they have to either take the dangerous terrain test or not assault your DA.

**notabot187**

Murenius wrote:
Master Melta wrote:
Good point! However, if that unit of 30 boyz only moves 1 boy, that's a win!
MM

So true. Especially with Eldar this leaves you much needed room to bring your cc into position and to punish them with another round of shots. Even if it is only 2 or 3 frag rockets from an EML will do evul stuff to a 30 nobz unit.

Another situation I can think of: you unloaded your DA to reduce the mob. Then you shoot your night spinner at the mob and they have to either take the dangerous terrain test or not assault your DA.

You mean you fire the nightspinner first, then unload. Ork players expecting templates will pull models in a way that eliminate bunching (which occurs when they have to move around terrain).

Also, the whole ork player moving just 1 guy to avoid the effects is just bad play. A real ork player takes his lumps as a part of doing business. Losing 1/6 guys just for moving? Acceptable losses. Units of 3+ saves dont' like the spinner more than orks. despite size. Why? Dangerous terrain means no armor save. Also, 3+ armies are more expensive per model, so when they lose that couple of models from moving, it actually hurts more than losing a handful of orks.

**AvatarForm**

A "hard" Eldar list usually avoids most of the Eldar codex in favour of less "interesting" units.

You will commonly find:

Eldrad/Farseer
Fire Dragons + Falcon
Dire Avengers + Wave Serpent
Scorpions
Walkers
Wraithlord
Guardian Jetbike squads
Rangers

I do not think I have faced off against or used many of the other units. This is simply due to points restrictions making them unfavourable, as Eldar are an army which are very sensitive to losses.

**DAaddict**

Farseers are the core of the army - A well-timed doom or guide will greatly increase your force. That is why many armies swear by Eldrad as he can throw around 3 of these every turn.

Doom is important for S3 & S4 attacks. Also greatly increases the value of rangers and pathfinders.

Guide is important for BS 3 squads and units. This pays off with Vypers, War walkers and falcons.

The strength of Eldar is really reduced by the current environment to Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers and the S6 weaponry in particular scatter lasers. Most often I see wave serpents, vypers and/or walkers with scatter lasers.
Nothing like a squadron of walkers with scatter lasers being guided. 24 S6 shots with an average of 18 hits will decimate most targets.

**AvatarForm**

DAaddict wrote:Farseers are the core of the army - A well-timed doom or guide will greatly increase your force. That is why many armies swear by Eldrad as he can throw around 3 of these every turn.

Doom is important for S3 & S4 attacks. Also greatly increases the value of rangers and pathfinders.

Guide is important for BS 3 squads and units. This pays off with Vypers, War walkers and falcons.

The strength of Eldar is really reduced by the current environment to Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers and the S6 weaponry in particular scatter lasers. Most often I see wave serpents, vypers and/or walkers with scatter lasers.
Nothing like a squadron of walkers with scatter lasers being guided. 24 S6 shots with an average of 18 hits will decimate most targets.

I am yet to see a Vyper as a viable alternative to other options when you compare points for returns.

Yes, the psychic powers are integral. Now, extrapolate those thoughts into, one farseer in a falcon. There are no fire points, but you can use non-LOS powers from it while effectively shielding your Farseer. Also, you can pick up a Troops squad in later turns for a scoring Falcon move onto an objective.

The scatter laser are good, though I prefer EML on most twin linked platforms.

Do not under estimate the hit and run tactics of guardian jetbikes. Also, a shuriken cannon on ever 3rd bike is a must.

If you are playing larger (2000+) games, some aspects are good in deathstar combos.

Eg. Spiders + Exarch + Autarch with jump generator.

**notabot187**

I've always thought the fire dragons falcon combo was terrible. Instead of taking the transport that is good against melta into melta range, you take the gun boat transport. Instead of taking the troops meant only for scoring purposes in the durable to long range fire transport, you stick it into the shortish range transport (the long range optios are far to expensive on a wave serpent). Seems kinda backwards.

I also wasn't aware that eldar rangers were any good. Maybe pathfinder skills are worth it, but regular rangers don't kill much. They also don't take much to kill.

Wraithlords are also somewhat suspect. Rather expensive for a crapping CC MC, and expensive ranged options. With no invul, and only a 3+, they are ML/dark lance bait. They have never done anything against me, and I've not seen them ever be effective locally.

My list of useful eldar units?

Autarch
farseer
seer council (jetbike only)

fire dragons (2 unit is minimum, which means little to no space for other elites)

guardian jetbikes
dire avengers
storm guardians (not efficient, and bad BS limit the fact they have decent weapons options. usable at least)

Vipers

Fire prisms
Falcon
Wave serpent

**Flavius Infernus**

AvatarForm wrote:

I am yet to see a Vyper as a viable alternative to other options when you compare points for returns.

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/12/eldar-analysis-different-way-of-doing/

If your heavy slots are already filled with falcons and you still want massed str6 firepower comparable to what war walkers can lay down, then squadrons of 2-3 vypers with dual cannons or scatter/cannon can provide it.

**schadenfreude**

notabot187 wrote:
Murenius wrote:
Master Melta wrote:
Good point! However, if that unit of 30 boyz only moves 1 boy, that's a win!
MM

So true. Especially with Eldar this leaves you much needed room to bring your cc into position and to punish them with another round of shots. Even if it is only 2 or 3 frag rockets from an EML will do evul stuff to a 30 nobz unit.

Another situation I can think of: you unloaded your DA to reduce the mob. Then you shoot your night spinner at the mob and they have to either take the dangerous terrain test or not assault your DA.

You mean you fire the nightspinner first, then unload. Ork players expecting templates will pull models in a way that eliminate bunching (which occurs when they have to move around terrain).

Also, the whole ork player moving just 1 guy to avoid the effects is just bad play. A real ork player takes his lumps as a part of doing business. Losing 1/6 guys just for moving? Acceptable losses. Units of 3+ saves dont' like the spinner more than orks. despite size. Why? Dangerous terrain means no armor save. Also, 3+ armies are more expensive per model, so when they lose that couple of models from moving, it actually hurts more than losing a handful of orks.

Against orcs a S6 ap- large pie is full of win. The real beauty of the night spinner is when you shoot the big mek's unit it screws with the movement of the entire army.

**CIAbugguy**

Would it be practical to run walkers with EML and then vypers with the Shurikan cannons, you would have an excessive amount of heavy shots but you would be lacking on anything with any heavy armour weapons

**DAaddict**

AvatarForm wrote:
I am yet to see a Vyper as a viable alternative to other options when you compare points for returns.

Yes, the psychic powers are integral. Now, extrapolate those thoughts into, one farseer in a falcon. There are no fire points, but you can use non-LOS powers from it while effectively shielding your Farseer. Also, you can pick up a Troops squad in later turns for a scoring Falcon move onto an objective.

The scatter laser are good, though I prefer EML on most twin linked platforms.

Do not under estimate the hit and run tactics of guardian jetbikes. Also, a shuriken cannon on ever 3rd bike is a must.

If you are playing larger (2000+) games, some aspects are good in deathstar combos.

Eg. Spiders + Exarch + Autarch with jump generator.

Vypers are good concentration of S6 firepower second to War Walkers. The problem with War Walkers is that they use up in-demand heavy slots.
So if you are building a list around night spinners, prisms or falcons then vypers are your only choice. Open-topped but for @200 points I can put out 21 S6 shots. The plus is that they cannot be tied down in close combat. The downside is the extra expense and vulnerability to fire that you need to conceal the squadron as much as possible.

EML versus Scatter Laser really comes down to cost versus ROF with a nod to strength. S6 eats up most MC and obviously any standard foot troops. Against AV 11 I would argue the S6 is almost as adequate as S8 when you consider 4 shots to 1. Guide 3 WW with Scatter lasers and we are talking 18 hits against AV 11 that is 3 Pens and 3 glances while my 3 WW with ML are going to get 4.5 hits and average 2.25 pens and .75 glances. Of course if I need to affect AV 13, the scatter lasers are worthless but thankfully no army at 2000 pts is going to have more than 4 units that are AV 13+.

**Crom**

I have an Eldar army as does my buddy. Mine is 2,000 or so points form 2nd edition though and I haven't bought anything since 2nd Edition. This is how I think Eldar are effective and I play against them a lot with my Wolves and Orks.

1) Must use Eldrad, dude is just too powerful/useful and always give him a warlock entourage, to hide him from being sniped out. Just remember once they go under quarter strength they cannot rally though, not that it happens a lot but I have on several occasions routed Eldrad and he was never able to rally because the unit was under half (or quarter whatever it is) strength.

2) Re-deploy your transports to be behind cover in case you don't get first turn, Eldrad allows this

3) Put all your short range instant death guys (wraith guard, fire dragons) in transports and get them up the field as fast as possible. Move flat out, get them up there. They will shred enemy armor and take out elites no problem, and the wraith guard are sort of tough in hand to hand due to their high toughness

4) Dire avengers with an exarch and the ability to double your shots. this can be a game changer, especially on missions that require you to seize ground or objectives. You toss enough dice at unit they will eventually fail all their saving throws

5) walker squads with bright lances tear up heavy armor, no matter what the armor value is, bright lance reduce it to value of 8. I don't field tanks against eldar anymore I do all long fang squads because of the damn bright lances

6) Banshees/Scorpions I would not use all that much, I have never lost to them in combat. Every game I played against them I crushed them. Maybe they were being used wrong against me, or not built for my armies but I think they are a waste of points.

7) Pathfinders in cover are basically not kill-able. They get that bonus to cover saves, and they infiltrate. So, you post them up in cover and have them take out units. They are hit or miss as I have never had them deal a great amount of damage against me but I have seen them destroy other units in other games before.

8) Guardians - so cheap, they get a heavy weapon, and they can claim objectives and to be honest they get ignored a bunch as well. In fact I never try to take out guardians until they hold an objective. They are good distraction unit and very cheap points wise

9) Wraithlords....damn things are tough. No armor value and T8 so they will never have instant death and they can never be killed in one shot (lucky penetration shot) and they can soak up some fire. Plus they count as monstrous creatures so they roll 2D6 when attacking vehicles for armor penetration. They are a good unit.

10) Dark Reapers - meh to be honest they never really do squat against me, I would say pump up more dire avengers.

I could build you a few lists when I get back to my other computer and post them on what has worked against me and what hasn't. I played Eldar a lot in 2nd Ed and still have my army but not really so much in 5th.

**CIAbugguy**

I am thinking about running this as my army any tips or pointers

HQ

Farseer w guide/fortune 105
Farseer w guide/fortune 105

Elites

5 fire dragons w wave serpent (TL shurikan cannon/shurikan cannon) 222

5 fire dragons w wave serpent (TL shurikan cannon/shurikan cannon) 222

Troops

5 Dire avengers w wave serpent (TL shurikan cannon/shurikan cannon) 217
5 Dire avengers w wave serpent (TL shurikan cannon/shurikan cannon) 217

Fast attack

3 Vypers w dual shurikan Cannon 150

3 Vypers w dual shurikan Cannon 150

Heavy

3 war walkers with 2 EML 130
3 war walkers with 2 EML 130
3 war walkers with 2 EML 130

1995

sounds like the list would have some serious fire power

**Shadowseer_Kim**

Only problem with this list is. what happens when you get a 5 Objectives Game, a best you can hold 2, and maybe contest some more.

But hell, it's Eldar, it might just work for all occassions. I like the 9 War Walkers.

**DarknessEternal**

Vypers are mostly pointless. You'll lose all of them in your enemies first shooting phase.

Replace them with another Avenger Serpent and you also cover the previous posters' point.

Also, Runes of Warding are basically a necessity. Take them. And if you want those powers you're spending to actually work, you need Runes of Witnessing as well.

**AvatarForm**

notabot187 wrote:I've always thought the fire dragons falcon combo was terrible. Instead of taking the transport that is good against melta into melta range, you take the gun boat transport. Instead of taking the troops meant only for scoring purposes in the durable to long range fire transport, you stick it into the shortish range transport (the long range optios are far to expensive on a wave serpent). Seems kinda backwards.

I also wasn't aware that eldar rangers were any good. Maybe pathfinder skills are worth it, but regular rangers don't kill much. They also don't take much to kill.

Wraithlords are also somewhat suspect. Rather expensive for a crapping CC MC, and expensive ranged options. With no invul, and only a 3+, they are ML/dark lance bait. They have never done anything against me, and I've not seen them ever be effective locally.

You seem to be using them incorrectly if this is what you took from my post.

**I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly**

CIAbugguy wrote:I am thinking about running this as my army any tips or pointers

HQ

Farseer w guide/fortune 105
Farseer w guide/fortune 105

Elites

5 fire dragons w wave serpent (TL shurikan cannon/shurikan cannon) 222

5 fire dragons w wave serpent (TL shurikan cannon/shurikan cannon) 222

Troops

5 Dire avengers w wave serpent (TL shurikan cannon/shurikan cannon) 217
5 Dire avengers w wave serpent (TL shurikan cannon/shurikan cannon) 217

Fast attack

3 Vypers w dual shurikan Cannon 150

3 Vypers w dual shurikan Cannon 150

Heavy

3 war walkers with 2 EML 130
3 war walkers with 2 EML 130
3 war walkers with 2 EML 130

1995

sounds like the list would have some serious fire power

Dude, practically every points total in here is wrong. Go check your codex.

Leaving that aside, don't take 2 powers per farseer unless you take spirit stones as well. In a pure shooting army, I take 1 farseer only, with guide and runes of warding. He's good, but there isn't much point taking a second one compared to just buying more guns.
Take more scoring units (DAs in wave serpents) before you take vypers. Vypers are so fragile, and you pay so much for the firepower.
Fire dragon wave serpents should have just the twin-linked shuriken cannon, maybe the twin scatter laser. A second weapon is pointless because you want to be moving at least 12" per turn getting those meltaguns into the right position.
Take longer range weapons on your DA wave serpents, you want them to stay out of potential assault/melta or plasma range.

**Crom**

Use Eldrad, there really is no reason not to. Totally worth the points.. Here is how I would run my Eldar, though I don't really play them all that much anymore

2000 Pts - Eldar Roster

HQ: Eldrad Ulthran (1#, 210 pts)
1 Eldrad Ulthran, 210 pts ((pp.50-51 & 61 Eldar); Independent Character; Psyker; Doom ; Eldritch Storm ; Fortune ; Guide ; Mind War ; Divination; Ghosthelm; Rune Armour; Runes of Warding; Runes of Witnessing; Spirit Stones; Shuriken Pistol; Witchblade; Staff of Ulthamar)

HQ: Warlock Unit (3#, 112 pts)
1 Warlock Unit, 112 pts
1 Warlock ((p.27-28 & p.60 Eldar); Psyker; Enhance ; Fleet; Rune Armour; Shuriken Pistol; Singing Spear)
1 Spiritseer (Warlock) ((p.27-28 & p.60 Eldar); Psyker; Fleet; Spiritseer Upgrade; Rune Armour; Shuriken Pistol; Singing Spear)
1 Warlock ((p.27-28 & p.60 Eldar); Psyker; Destructor ; Fleet; Rune Armour; Shuriken Pistol; Witchblade)

Troops: Dire Avengers (10#, 120 pts)
10 Dire Avengers, 120 pts ((pp.30 & 64 Eldar); Fleet; Avenger S-Catapult)

Troops: Dire Avengers (10#, 120 pts)
10 Dire Avengers, 120 pts ((pp.30 & 64 Eldar); Fleet; Avenger S-Catapult)

Elite: Fire Dragons (7#, 238 pts)
5 Fire Dragons, 238 pts ((pp.32 & 62 Eldar); Fleet; Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs)
1 Fire Dragon Exarch (Fleet; Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs)
1 Wave Serpent ((pp.45 & 63 Eldar); Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Tank, Fast); Energy Field; Shuriken Cannon; TL Missile Launchers)

Troops: Guardians (10#, 95 pts)
10 Guardians, 95 pts ((p.39 & p.64 Eldar); Fleet; Shuriken Catapult x10)
1 Weapon Platform (Scatter Laser)

Troops: Guardians (10#, 95 pts)
10 Guardians, 95 pts ((p.39 & p.64 Eldar); Fleet; Shuriken Catapult x10)
1 Weapon Platform (Scatter Laser)

Elite: Wraithguard (7#, 350 pts)
5 Wraithguard, 350 pts ((pp.46 & 62 Eldar); Fearless; Wraithsight; Wraithcannon x5)
1 Wave Serpent ((pp.45 & 63 Eldar); Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Tank, Fast); Energy Field; Star Engines; TL Shuriken Catapults; TL Bright Lances)
1 Warlock ((p.27-28 & p.60 Eldar); Psyker; Fleet; Rune Armour; Shuriken Pistol; Witchblade)

Heavy Support: Wraithlord (1#, 170 pts)
1 Wraithlord, 170 pts ((pp.47 & 66 Eldar); Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Fearless; Wraithsight; Flamer x1; Shuriken Catapult x1; TL Bright Lances)

Heavy Support: Wraithlord (1#, 140 pts)
1 Wraithlord, 140 pts ((pp.47 & 66 Eldar); Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Fearless; Wraithsight; Flamer x1; Shuriken Catapult x1; TL Missile Launchers)

Heavy Support: War Walker Squadron (3#, 225 pts)
1 War Walker Squadron, 225 pts ((pp.44 & 66 Eldar); Scouts)
1 War Walker (Bright Lance; Missile Launcher)
1 War Walker (Missile Launcher; Bright Lance)
1 War Walker (Scatter Laser; Missile Launcher)

Troops: Pathfinders (Rangers) (5#, 120 pts)
5 Pathfinders (Rangers), 120 pts ((pp.38 & 64 Eldar); Fleet; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Stealth; Ignore Difficult Terrain; Pathfinder Stealth; Scouts; Pathfinders; Shuriken Pistol x5; Ranger Long Rifle)

Validation Report:
Codex: Eldar Codex 2006; c-1. File Version: 1.20 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Elite: 2 (0 - 3)
Troops: 5 (2 - 6)
Fast: 0 (0 - 3)
Heavy: 3 (0 - 3)

Total Roster Cost: 1995

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

2500 points I would add an autarch, another squad of dires, and possibly some close combat troops

**CIAbugguy**

Hmm, I am pretty sure the points are right. I went through the codex last night. i included the captian upgrades in the points but not in the descriptions... Ill check it again just to be sure..... Wait no you are right they are completely wrong,, messed it up quite well. thanks

**Crom**

CIAbugguy wrote:Hmm, I am pretty sure the points are right. I went through the codex last night. i included the captian upgrades in the points but not in the descriptions... Ill check it again just to be sure..... Wait no you are right they are completely wrong,, messed it up quite well. thanks

I use an army builder program that has all the rules built into the app itself so I cannot make an illegal army. The one I posted I think is pretty rounded. It is definitely more shooting based than anything. Eldar Close combat aren't all that impressive to be honest unless maybe you are playing IG or Tau.

**Smitty0305**

I play Eldar competitively at RTT's and GT events.

I usually come in the top 10%.

Feel free to read my battle reports in my signature/Pm Me questions.

Also look for my Eldar Strat Guide comming out in a few months, 50+ pages of how to win with eldar.

Also Crom's post about an eldar list is a really bad list and something I would suggest not running.

Heres how Eldar Works. You pick 2 from Farseer or Autarch slot. Then you get 3 squads of 5 fire dragons in wave serpents with scatter lasers. Then you get 4 squads of 5 dire avengers in wave serpents with scatter lasers. Then you pick Fire Prisms/Falcons/Night SPinners/War Walkers. You can also run a seer council on jetbikes. Then you dance around the board taking obectives turn 6 and you say "lolimeldarmytanksdontdie"

Thats basically how the army works rofl.

**CIAbugguy**

Can someone explain to me what is so horrible about vypers, land speeders only have 10 armour all around but no one ever says dont use those, and I dont have the codex in front of me but war walkers as well have ten armour all around and everyone loves them.... Is there something I am missing?

**AvatarForm**

Smitty0305 wrote:
Also look for my Eldar Strat Guide comming out in a few months, 50+ pages of how to win with eldar.

Also Crom's post about an eldar list is a really bad list and something I would suggest not running.

Heres how Eldar Works. You pick 2 from Farseer or Autarch slot. Then you get 3 squads of 5 fire dragons in wave serpents with scatter lasers. Then you get 4 squads of 5 dire avengers in wave serpents with scatter lasers. Then you pick Fire Prisms/Falcons/Night SPinners/War Walkers. You can also run a seer council on jetbikes. Then you dance around the board taking obectives turn 6 and you say "lolimeldarmytanksdontdie"

You are compiling a strat guide? When there are rumours of 6th Ed in the coming year? Left it a bit late didnt you...

As for Eldar Mech lists, these will earn you a 0/5 Comp score in most tourneys you attend.

**I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly**

CIAbugguy wrote:Can someone explain to me what is so horrible about vypers, land speeders only have 10 armour all around but no one ever says dont use those, and I dont have the codex in front of me but war walkers as well have ten armour all around and everyone loves them.... Is there something I am missing?

With pleasure, as this is a pet peeve of mine: compared to vypers, land speeders are BS4, land speeders can deep strike, land speeders can get access to much better twin weapons at cheaper prices, land speeders are not open topped. SM heavy weapons, especially meltaguns and heavy flamers, seem much better suited for a fast deep striking vehicle, especially at such a price. Meanwhile a land speeder with typhoon launcher is much better for its price than an EML or bright lance vyper, when considered as a stand-off shooting platform.

War walkers are better than vypers because they can pack two weapons each and outflank. Also, I suppose close-topped is quite big. But the real difference is 2 weapons, for not nearly double cost. A base war walker without weapons is much cheaper than a vyper, the vyper pays for being a fast skimmer, but that isn't such a huge deal for a shooting platform.