Tau vs. Necrons and General Tau Tactics

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**K262**

Nice adaptation, I like doing that kind of thing with my spare parts as well

**LoneGamer**

K262 wrote:Thanks, and how odd would that be if you could use the spare ribs? Should I invest in some snipers as well, in the eventt he does get a necron lord?

Sniper drones aren't worth it. They take up a Heavy Support slot where you could be fitting in more railguns, one of the best weapons in the game.

**K262**

What is the use of the sniper drone then?

**Lord of Baal**

This is quite the hard one......

**K262**

Sarcasm?

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I've been able to force him to phase out 2/2 games so far with the new information. However, last game he killed 8 kroot with one volley of gunfire. What can I do to minimize casualties, or is that what they are for?

**K262**

He now has a necron lord, so what should my plan of attack be?

**weiler**

To be honest i play against necrons with several different armies and no matter what they field i ignore it and hit the warriors hard the way i see it this is all that needs to be done it always works for me but i have never played them under 1500p

**CIAbugguy**

I would get myself a unit of Battle suits with twin linked missle pods to speed up the phase out and keep you at range. he only increased hisphase out models by one so you still just need to bring the model count down to three so thats one more warrior. the only bad thing is if he puts a res orb on his lord, then he will get WBB no matter what you shoot him with.

**The Grog**

Ascalam wrote:
Actually using a Monolith (or a Ctan) at that points level is INSANE if you're playing by the rules. It's very tough, and powerful, but it can be outmaneuvered easily, and the rest of the force is weaker for it.

Having 1/4 of your army points at that level not contribute to your phase out makes you far more likely to do so.

Minimum loadout for necrons is 1 lord (1-200 points depending on wargear)

20 warriors in 2 units of 10 (over a third of the 1000 pt total)

The minimum you can get away with at 1000 pts is about half your points, and leaves your force very fragile to phase out. I never use a Lith below 1500 pts for that reason.

If you're playing with 'what you have'

His force:
Necron Warriors (12)
Scarabs (3)
Monolith (1)

He will phase out if you rip up that one unit of warriors. Run around the lith to shoot behind it, with the fire warriors going one way and the kroot the other. He can't focus on both if you keep your distance as you circle it. You really really need transports and or tanks though. if he's going to be fielding tanks. Ask about proxying in one.

The scarabs are frail, and die very nicely to pulse rifle fire or better.

In short, both you guys need to go shopping

Single models aren't that easy to move around unless you happen to be mechanized as long as they have a good gun, and while you can ignore the Monolith and go for the rest of the army that doesn't mean the Monolith won't brutalize you in the process. Taking something your opponent is unlikely to have the tools to deal with is a valid tactic at low points. No different from taking multiple Land Raiders or 3 Wraithlords or all the other annoying spam lists at 1k and under. 2 Monoliths in 1k would be extremely unpleasant for most people.

**Ascalam**

It would make for a rather sad Necron force though

2 liths at almost landraider prices

nearly 400 pts in warriors required

100+ pts in lord and gear

Not much else (maybe a tomb spyder).

Not the greatest list, and a bit prone to phase out. The Liths would be nasty to deal with up close, but unless the necron warriors are camped in a corner behind a lith castle they are very vulnerable.

Liths are slow. It is quite possible to jog around one at range by running. Transports would be helpful too. Anything that can move at speed (battlesuits for example) can easily zoom around one. A Piranha squadron or stealth teams would gave no problem popping around/behind it.

If it uses it's big gun it's got one pieplate. Spread your troops and you'll only lose a few. If it uses it's secondary guns it can't use the big gun, and doesn't get all that many shots at each unit, at a very short range.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Railgunspam also will turn Liths inside-out quite quickly, or at least immobilize them somewhere useless like the Necron board edge (or close to it), and the 4+ cover save disruption pods or Shield drones 4+ inv really take the sting out of it's guns.

**K262**

How do twin linked missles help any more than regular weaponry? I realize that they get an extra roll if they miss, but how else does it help? And yes, he did put the res orb on his model. Also, does the particle whip negate invulnerable saves?

**Ascalam**

Twin-linked missiles would make no difference other than being more likely to hit.

The only things that Necrons have that ignore Invulnerable saves are as follows (unless i'm missing something).

Ctan close combat attacks ignore invulnerable and armour saves.

Warscythes - ditto

Both are only useful in close combat, and only Lords and Pariahs get Warscythes.

The Particle Whip does not negate invulnerable saves.

**K262**

When do Close Combat Attacks negate WBB? I have heard that it is possible, and I am wondering if it is applicable to my Kroot.

**CIAbugguy**

Any attack that is twice the strength of the model that is rolling for the WBB and if i recall correctly any weapon that ignores armor save in close combat negates WBB. BUt all of these are useless if he has a res orb within 6 inchs of the model killed

**Avatar 720**

On the subject of twin-linked missiles, they're actually more likely to kill a necron Warrior than a single plasma rifle or fusion blaster shot.

Assuming BS3, plasma rifle has 0.5 hits and 0.4165 wounds with a 4+ WBB making that 0.20825 warriors dead. Fusion Blaster kills 0.4165 warriors, TL Missile Pods have 1.5 hits, 1.2495 wounds, 0.833 failed saves, 0.41670825 failed WBB.

More than double the casualties of the plasma rifle (due to more shots, and the fact neither of them ignore WBB; the armour save against the pods is the only thing stopping this gap being larger) and only just more than the fusion blaster, but it has triple the range of the fusion, and 12" than the plasma rifle.

Rapid Firing the plasma rifle would yield more wounds, but it means next turn, the warriors can move 6" and rapid fire your crisis suit, a risk you also run with fusion blasters.

The fact that TLing something takes up two of your 3 hard-points makes multi-trackers useless, so the only good upgrade is a targeting array, making the pods even better.

**CIAbugguy**

@avatar 720
Thanks for figuring that out I suck at math

The missle Pod range was the Main reason I recomended them, as an old necron player what drove me crazy the most was long range and high power shooting which kills my warriors before i can try and get them into shooting range

**Ascalam**

Shooting attacks at double toughness and Close Combat attacks that don't allow an armour save negate WBB to the Orbless..

**Kevin949**

CIAbugguy wrote:Any attack that is twice the strength of the model that is rolling for the WBB and if i recall correctly any weapon that ignores armor save in close combat negates WBB. BUt all of these are useless if he has a res orb within 6 inchs of the model killed

Within 6" of one living model in the unit.

**K262**

How hard is it to kill his lord with a crisis suit or squad of firewarriors?

**tetrisphreak**

I play tau (albeit only for 1 week so far) AND necrons so let me tell you -

A necron lord is a t5 space marine with a power weapon (uber power, no invul either) but will fall to ap1/2 shots. here's the rub: he'll get back up half the time, every time, then probably keep marching forward until he gets assault. The solution? Keep putting him down, and jumping backwards. If he can't reach you, he can't assault you, and eventually he WILL fail that 4+ WBB. Tell your friend to get some destroyers (or even proxy some) instead of that monolith while you're building up your tau force. Having something like that on the table to support his units (re-rolling WBB saves and transporting units around the table) is kind of unsportsmanlike when you're just starting out with your army. Once you've gotten some experience under your belt (and more than a couple railguns) that makes it a much more even fight (since he can deep strike his monolith to avoid the 'rails for at least one turn).

**K262**

If I get close enought to use my fusion blaster (AP1, S8), what saving throws will he get? Should I focus fire from my Firewarriors to try to kill the lord, or should I continue barraging the warriors. Also, I may have asked this before, but if my Crisis suit has attached shield drones, will he get an invul save from a hit from a particle whip shot? Finally, what are some good Kroot tactics, as they get mowed down by his warriors if I try to run at them, and obliterated by his particle whip when they wait for ambush.

**tetrisphreak**

K262 wrote:If I get close enought to use my fusion blaster (AP1, S8), what saving throws will he get?
-Depends. Cover save (4+) if he's obscured, Invuln save (4+) if he bought the upgrade, no save (in the open, unupgraded). Either way S8 won't Instant Death him he is T5.

Should I focus fire from my Firewarriors to try to kill the lord, or should I continue barraging the warriors.
-If your opponent is wise the lord will be joined TO the warriors, making this decision moot. Shoot the squad.

Also, I may have asked this before, but if my Crisis suit has attached shield drones, will he get an invul save from a hit from a particle whip shot?
-Read the wound allocation rules in the BRB. You assign wounds after they have been hit and rolled for...if the PWhip hit your entire squad, and wounded all 3 models, then the 2 shield drones would get their invul save but the suit would not (unless he has a shield gen). Then if the crisis suit fails the save he has (cover save, possibly? previously-mentioned invuln) the drones are removed too, since the drone controller module has left the table.

Finally, what are some good Kroot tactics, as they get mowed down by his warriors if I try to run at them, and obliterated by his particle whip when they wait for ambush.
-Infitrate them in forests/terrain (for a 3+/4+ cover save from shooting attacks) and let the warriors come to you as you shoot at them with kroot rifles. Block assaults/provide cover to your firewarriors and suits. When the 'crons get within 12" (learn to eyeball this distance, quickly and with great accuracy - it will win you games) charge into them - kroot get more attacks and a higher initiative than warriors, with a decent combat roll you can sweeping advance the squad (thus negating WBB and probably winning you the game due to phase-out).

**Kevin949**

K262 wrote:How hard is it to kill his lord with a crisis suit or squad of firewarriors?

With a res orb, phase shifter and phylactery and attached to a unit (any decent sized unit at least), pretty difficult.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tetrisphreak wrote:I play tau (albeit only for 1 week so far) AND necrons so let me tell you -

A necron lord is a t5 space marine with a power weapon (uber power, no invul either) but will fall to ap1/2 shots. here's the rub: he'll get back up half the time, every time, then probably keep marching forward until he gets assault. The solution? Keep putting him down, and jumping backwards. If he can't reach you, he can't assault you, and eventually he WILL fail that 4+ WBB. Tell your friend to get some destroyers (or even proxy some) instead of that monolith while you're building up your tau force. Having something like that on the table to support his units (re-rolling WBB saves and transporting units around the table) is kind of unsportsmanlike when you're just starting out with your army. Once you've gotten some experience under your belt (and more than a couple railguns) that makes it a much more even fight (since he can deep strike his monolith to avoid the 'rails for at least one turn).

He'll fall to AP1/2 shots IF he doesn't put a phase shifter on him for the 4+ invul save. And honestly, you'd be pretty dumb not to if it was your only lord.

I think you're forgetting that the lord can attach to a unit as well so he'd need to get past ALL the warriors or whatever first before he even starts touching the lord.

You say it's unsportsmanlike that he fields a monolith, I say it's unfair to play with phase out in and illegal army layout when they're just training, basically.

**K262**

I am always condused on how sweeping advance works, and the whole "winning combat by one" thing. Could you enlighten me?

**tetrisphreak**

Not to sound rude, K262, but do you own a rulebook? It's pretty clearly written.

*sigh* - When you win combat, that means you've killed more models than your opponent (unsaved wounds is the key term to remember here). The loser (who took the most wounds) must take a leadership test with a negative modifier -- for every unsaved wound he lost by, it's -1 to his Ld on the test. If he succeeds, nothing happens - the units stay locked in combat. However, if the squad fails, it immediately breaks. But wait! There's a chance the winning squad can catch the losers unaware, and this is represented by sweeping advance. After a unit loses combat, roll a D6 and add the highest initiative value to the roll. The winner rolls a d6 and adds his initiative to the roll as well - If the winner equals or beats the loser's roll, the losing team is 'swept' -- Immediately removed from play, no saves allowed, no special rules to save them (thus negating WBB). If that wasn't clear enough I suggest reading the combat section of the rulebook again and highlighting appropriate lines to refer to the next time you get to have a game.

**K262**

I do, and I am sorry for the easily answered question :( I just figured I would ask here as it seems I might get a answer that can allow me directly apply it to this particular Necron dilema. I have read the rules, I am just still learning them as I play. I am relatively new to the game. So, please forgive me. On a seperate note, so if I can get close enough to engage his warriors with my kroot, I might stand a chance against his Monolith supported force of Necrons?

**tetrisphreak**

No worries, K262, I'm not upset at you. I don't mind helping new players out one bit (note i did explain the way it works, after all

)

Basically the phase-out is the necron codex's worst enemy. Before the game starts find out his magic number (aka the number of remaining NECRON units on the table - don't count the monolith, scarabs, pariahs, c'tan) - and do everything you can to get that number or less left on the table. If you can outflank kroot to get a surprise assault on his warrior squad, do it (they'll probably be a little thinned out from shooting). Alternatively, you can infiltrate the kroot separately from your main squad and try to distract or split his forces. Focusing fire on a smaller number of models ensures that more of them will die.

**K262**

Kroot can move 6" during the movement phase and then Assault 6" if I understand correctly, right? (The 12" movement you mentioned in the Kroot tactics)

**tetrisphreak**

Right.

**K262**

I wish I had known that earlier, I played my friends necrons recently and he downed 10/16 before they ever made it to him

Live and Learn

Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do destroyers affect tactics?