Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yeah that is to bad, but even in close combat the necron warrios with the lord will win against your kroot, it would be better to hide them and use them to keep the warriors away from your fire warriors and suits.

as for destroyers I recomend you get broad sides cause they can stop WBB with the strength ten rail gun. Destroyers are one of the best units a necron can get around 48 inch range with movement and will eat your fire warrios alive

Destroys have 36" range.
Heavy Destroyers are 48".

Destroyers are Jetbikes, and so effectively have 48" range with movement, as he said

Avatar 720 wrote:Destroyers are Jetbikes, and so effectively have 48" range with movement, as he said

I skipped over the "with movement" part. Thanks.

Ascalam wrote:It would make for a rather sad Necron force though

2 liths at almost landraider prices

nearly 400 pts in warriors required

100+ pts in lord and gear

Not much else (maybe a tomb spyder).

Not the greatest list, and a bit prone to phase out. The Liths would be nasty to deal with up close, but unless the necron warriors are camped in a corner behind a lith castle they are very vulnerable.

Liths are slow. It is quite possible to jog around one at range by running. Transports would be helpful too. Anything that can move at speed (battlesuits for example) can easily zoom around one. A Piranha squadron or stealth teams would gave no problem popping around/behind it.

If it uses it's big gun it's got one pieplate. Spread your troops and you'll only lose a few. If it uses it's secondary guns it can't use the big gun, and doesn't get all that many shots at each unit, at a very short range.

Most armies are simply unable to kill Monoliths at 1k, and even if you are trying to move around a 12" LOS blocking wall of metal that also moves you are eating 9/3 large blasts the whole time. If you are spread out, you are not moving around the Monolith wall quickly. 2 Monoliths is probably the better1k Necron lists around as it does the best at protecting that 360 point deadweight you are forced to take in Warriors and if your opponent doesn't have S10 he's unlikely to every kill a Monolith. I don't think Wraith spam will work since you can't block LOS to them without Monoliths, nor teleport and reroll WBB. 10 Destroyers? 9 Spyders and whatever scarabs you can make fit?

*shrug* all down to preferences really.

Bear in mind that S10 is not the only way to take down a Lith at 1000 pts. A lucky shot from a melta gun can wreck one. EMP grenades, haywire grenades, haywire blasters, wraithcannon etc ignore the awesome armour value.

How are you getitng 3 large blasts from 2 liths? let alone 9? If they are firing the whip they can target one target each, and if you are spread out you'll likely not lose that many people, assuming it lands on target (it doesn't always..). Anything under it is in for a rough time, but same goes for anything firing a pieplate.

Liths are slow, Even if they wall up there ought to be some terrain that they will have to go around or risk immobilizing themselves. If they wall up on a standard table (6 by 4) with the warriors stashed behind them they concede the rest of the table to the other player, which makes objective grabbing easy, especially if you can immobilize one (forcing the other to stop also to maintain the wall)

S8 is enough to immobilize them and whittle down the secondary guns (number of shots per target drops).

If you are playing a mission where a total boardwipe is the only way of winning i'll grant you they're difficult to crack, but most missions have a timer and objectives that the necron player simply won't be able to grab while hiding behind a slow-moving wall.

I've found that wraithspam works just fine at 1000, with a resorb destroyer-lord. They don't need LOS blocking from a lith (it hampers their speed), and don't really need teleport/re-wbb shenanigans either at that point level. Their 3++ save and the lord on hand for orb use makes them pretty sturdy, and they are fast enough to get where they want to go

I've run a varied (read- not spamming one unit in all 3 slots ) necron list that does well at 1K also.

Ascalam wrote:*shrug* all down to preferences really.

Bear in mind that S10 is not the only way to take down a Lith at 1000 pts. A lucky shot from a melta gun can wreck one. EMP grenades, haywire grenades, haywire blasters, wraithcannon etc ignore the awesome armour value.

How are you getitng 3 large blasts from 2 liths? let alone 9? If they are firing the whip they can target one target each, and if you are spread out you'll likely not lose that many people, assuming it lands on target (it doesn't always..). Anything under it is in for a rough time, but same goes for anything firing a pieplate.

Liths are slow, Even if they wall up there ought to be some terrain that they will have to go around or risk immobilizing themselves. If they wall up on a standard table (6 by 4) with the warriors stashed behind them they concede the rest of the table to the other player, which makes objective grabbing easy, especially if you can immobilize one (forcing the other to stop also to maintain the wall)

S8 is enough to immobilize them and whittle down the secondary guns (number of shots per target drops).

If you are playing a mission where a total boardwipe is the only way of winning i'll grant you they're difficult to crack, but most missions have a timer and objectives that the necron player simply won't be able to grab while hiding behind a slow-moving wall.

I've found that wraithspam works just fine at 1000, with a resorb destroyer-lord. They don't need LOS blocking from a lith (it hampers their speed), and don't really need teleport/re-wbb shenanigans either at that point level. Their 3++ save and the lord on hand for orb use makes them pretty sturdy, and they are fast enough to get where they want to go

I've run a varied (read- not spamming one unit in all 3 slots ) necron list that does well at 1K also.

He meant str9/ap3 blasts.

ok, that makes more sense.

Still only 2 a round though, with a decent chance one will miss/land off target.

Ascalam wrote:ok, that makes more sense.

Still only 2 a round though, with a decent chance one will miss/land off target.

I wouldn't say decent. Definitely a better chance you'll miss than hit, but factor in that even on a scatter you have to roll higher than 4 to even start moving it and even then you need to go 3+ inches away to completely miss. And that's if it doesn't scatter onto another guy in the squad.

so miss 2/3 of the time, and statistically scatter 3+ inches off at least half the time.

I'd call that a decent chance of a miss, or at least a less crushing hit, as you'd aim for the center of the unit for the most klills usually.

Ascalam wrote:so miss 2/3 of the time, and statistically scatter 3+ inches off at least half the time.

I'd call that a decent chance of a miss, or at least a less crushing hit, as you'd aim for the center of the unit for the most klills usually.

Yes, you would, if they're bunched up. Anyway, I'm just sayin that there's only a slightly worse chance to actually something with the whip then there is to hit something with the flux arcs. Though the devastating result is worth the extra risk.

As to the original topic though, what the necron player should try, at such a low point value game, is to take 10x2 warriors, kitted lord, 8 immortals, monolith. This ups the phase out count, immortals are just as survivable as destroyers, just not as mobile. There's more of them so they're far less likely to be wiped in one turn of shooting, and their gun is only 1 str lower with the same AP. You'd only be putting out 1 more shot over the destroyers but they're a far better screen for your warriors than destroyers are. I've just personally found that they have outperformed destroyers in many of my games, especially since they're the only real viable elite choice anyway.

Kevin949 wrote:

Ascalam wrote:so miss 2/3 of the time, and statistically scatter 3+ inches off at least half the time.

I'd call that a decent chance of a miss, or at least a less crushing hit, as you'd aim for the center of the unit for the most klills usually.

Yes, you would, if they're bunched up. Anyway, I'm just sayin that there's only a slightly worse chance to actually something with the whip then there is to hit something with the flux arcs. Though the devastating result is worth the extra risk.

As to the original topic though, what the necron player should try, at such a low point value game, is to take 10x2 warriors, kitted lord, 8 immortals, monolith. This ups the phase out count, immortals are just as survivable as destroyers, just not as mobile. There's more of them so they're far less likely to be wiped in one turn of shooting, and their gun is only 1 str lower with the same AP. You'd only be putting out 1 more shot over the destroyers but they're a far better screen for your warriors than destroyers are. I've just personally found that they have outperformed destroyers in many of my games, especially since they're the only real viable elite choice anyway.

That list i could definitely get behind. I've run something similar a fair few times.

Destroyers tend to underperform at low points values, at least for me. Get them into 2000+ pts games and they are pretty good though.

Single Lith is much nicer to your phase out score, and still gives you a wall to camp behind if you feel the need.

Immortals are pointswise cheaper than destroyers, which really helps at low points. Shame they cost an arm, leg and kidney to buy IRL. I have one unit of 10, and that cost the aforementioned body parts, so i don't have much spare for another unit. I've found them to be quite devastating (particularly against non-marines if you can find some to play against) , especially with a lord VODding them or a Lith Bamphing them around.

Ascalam wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Ascalam wrote:so miss 2/3 of the time, and statistically scatter 3+ inches off at least half the time.

I'd call that a decent chance of a miss, or at least a less crushing hit, as you'd aim for the center of the unit for the most klills usually.

Yes, you would, if they're bunched up. Anyway, I'm just sayin that there's only a slightly worse chance to actually something with the whip then there is to hit something with the flux arcs. Though the devastating result is worth the extra risk.

As to the original topic though, what the necron player should try, at such a low point value game, is to take 10x2 warriors, kitted lord, 8 immortals, monolith. This ups the phase out count, immortals are just as survivable as destroyers, just not as mobile. There's more of them so they're far less likely to be wiped in one turn of shooting, and their gun is only 1 str lower with the same AP. You'd only be putting out 1 more shot over the destroyers but they're a far better screen for your warriors than destroyers are. I've just personally found that they have outperformed destroyers in many of my games, especially since they're the only real viable elite choice anyway.

That list i could definitely get behind. I've run something similar a fair few times.

Destroyers tend to underperform at low points values, at least for me. Get them into 2000+ pts games and they are pretty good though.

Single Lith is much nicer to your phase out score, and still gives you a wall to camp behind if you feel the need.

Immortals are pointswise cheaper than destroyers, which really helps at low points. Shame they cost an arm, leg and kidney to buy IRL. I have one unit of 10, and that cost the aforementioned body parts, so i don't have much spare for another unit. I've found them to be quite devastating (particularly against non-marines if you can find some to play against) , especially with a lord VODding them or a Lith Bamphing them around.

Ya, I've found that immortals really are the bread-and-butter troop of the necron forces and I rarely ever go to war without them. As you, I only have one squad as well. Two squads would be killer though. Probably even under the new rules coming as well.

I dislike Immortals due to the lack of range and mobility. They have similar firepower on a per point basis, but are just as vulnerable to melee troops as Warriors. Too big a melee target compared to Destroyers, since they have to be closer and can't run and gun as well, and they have a harder time threatening flank shots. And making those flank shots count due to S5.

For me, they rate firmly behind maxing FA and then HS. They were really good in previous editions, but it is just too easy to hit melee contact with a unit that moves 6" with a 24" gun. Veiling them around used to be great, but I have trouble seeing it as less than a very high risk choice.

And if somebody wants to shoot S8 at my Monoliths, I'm jumping with joy at that choice instead of Warriors, Destroyers, or Wraiths. If somebody wants to roll for a 1/36 chance of a significant result on hit, go for it.

Well, for 30 points more I'd take a full squad of 10 immortals over 5 destroyers any day. The extra strength of the gun is usually not worth it considering it's still AP4 and if you're fighting something that AP4 punches through then you're probably wounding on a 2+ with str5 anyway.

Sure, the 36" range with 12" movement is nice but with everything being able to deepstrike/outflank/pop out where ever the eff it wants, what's that even matter anymore. Especially considering it's an assaulters game now, 10 models have a much better chance of surviving over 5. And if you've outfitted your lord properly, the immortals as a pseudo-retinue can be near un-wipeable.

Quite honestly, I'd just take a monolith over destroyers (both variants).

YOu would be surprised at how durable the Immortals are with tough five, i have seen manny a space marine squad assult and then wiff

I've rarely had my Destroyers assaulted unless I specifically put them somewhere that I knew it was a possibility if shooting ended poorly, although DE may manage it. Destroyers can run effectively, Immortals can't, and they do about the same damage to 3+. Immortals do more damage to 4+ or worse and T3, but I'm not usual that concerned about the difference in fire between 9 wounds and 11 wounds at that point.

As for durability, it doesn't matter. Once somebody reaches melee all the Immortal's benefits but T5 go out the window and it's just a matter of time until your higher I, power-something wielding opponent wins. Even if they can't break you quickly, they are still holding up an important firebase with a cheaper unit. I say cheaper because a 280 point melee unit probably will break them on the charge.

Should I tell my friend to get some destroyers to possibly even the odds?

Kroot have 2 attacks and 3 on the charge the knife is just for show. The tau codex will be out before this time next year probably. Maybe this year if we are super lucky.

You guys do realize that you can use the Crystal Matrix whether you move or not. The Particle Whip is part of that, therefore the Monolith can move its full distance(a whopping 6") and fire the flux arc AND particle whip.

AchillesFTW wrote:You guys do realize that you can use the Crystal Matrix whether you move or not. The Particle Whip is part of that, therefore the Monolith can move its full distance(a whopping 6") and fire the flux arc AND particle whip.

No, it can't.

I really wish it could but it can't.

The Particle Whip is Ordinance, which means any other guns go offline when it fires.

The Necron FAQ addresses this also, but i don't have access at work. If someone has the link on hand could they post it?

He is correct. That's a long established flaw in the Monolith. It used to be universal until IG got an exception for Russ hulls, and since they are pretty much the only other codex that gets a vehicle with ordinance and other guns worth mentioning ...

But they are IOM. They're speeecial



Ork Looted wagons and battlewagons can take an ordinance cannon and secondary weapons (Big Shootas or Rokkit Launchas) as well, but can't fire the big gun and the secondaries at the same time. They can also mount a Big Gun that isn't ordinance (Kannon, ZZapp, Lobba).

I can't remember the last time I saw an Ork bother with their ordinance weapon.

Nonetheless, they have them.

I use Boomgun wagons against marines a fair bit, even if they do keep shooting forward into melta range

trick to tau..more crisis suits

i usually kit mine with plasma/missile pod and MT.

necrons: alot of people say ignore monoliths, which is true but its still a pain in the rear. as a tau player, a unit of broadsides will open a monolith up, their role is specifically anti armour while railheads serve a more multipurpose role.

kroot are only good for bubblewrapping units, if your running mech tau they become useless.

do not give your sash'o iridium armour unless its camping with broadsides, in that case take a team leader with HW DC and 2 shield drones and give the 'o shield drones. makes them VERY hard to kill.

emp nades on the FW will take down a lith. generally useless though considering your battle cattle are ganna get shot up next turn.

it all depends on the crons style of play, i play CC crons at 2k, its rather funny to see peoples faces when the deciever shows up behind 3 monoliths.

I like running a Ringwraith list at people if i'm playing cheesathon against other cheesers

9 Wraiths, a Lord with resorb,phase shifter, destroyer body and warscythe and Nightbringer flying out from behind 3 liths