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Eldanar wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:It will get 4d6 + 3. The living metal ignores lance and extra dice. I believe it uses those words. This would prevent things like the rending from a sniper, melta effect (not bombs as those specifically say 2d6+8), and chainfists.

This is my thinking (although not sure about bombs or chainfists...)

Chainfists no because they are extra dice (same as the LR variant it says rolls an extra dice for armor penetration.
Melta Bomb yes because it says the grenades do the following damage 2d6 + 8. This is the same as the turbo penetrator (I believe.)
Rending no because it is again an extra dice (albeit a d3 not a d6 but extra all the same.)

No, the wording for Chainfists is that they "Roll 2D6 for armor penetration"

it doesn't say they roll and "Extra D6" it says they roll "2D6"

Maybe it is my BT then but I thought for sure they rolled an extra d6. If not then they would get both dice then against a monolith.

but they don't.

so clearly, the definition of extra dice for armor penetration is any dice beyond the standard 1 dice roll.


Therefore, the Turbopenetrator is clearly a Sniper Rifle(Str3+d6+rending) which rolls 3 additional dice(the codex shortens this by saying it rolls 4D6 because GW doesn't wish to insult our intelligence by laying it all out)


GW clearly says in their rules to use a little common sense. sometimes this doesn't work, but it clearly does in this case. if you can't see this then it isn't GWs fault.

You wouldn't get the rending as is says that it is and extra d3 (extra dice) That is why they say "extra d whatever" and why they sometimes say it does damage X (in this case 4d6.) They are two different things and are thusly written different.

you wouldn't get the rending(or 3 of the penetration dice) against a monolith, but against everything else you would.

the monolith is untouchable with a Turbo-penetrator(as it should be)

Agreed on the rending that is extra. My point is that it is not extra for the turbo round since it tells you that its damage against vehicles is 4d6...not roll an extra three d6 of damage against vehicles.

You only get 1 D6. End of thread.

woodbok wrote:You only get 1 D6. End of thread.

Uh why should this be the end? I don't agree, and if I have learned anything it is that wargammers (myself included) are hard nosed and don't like to give ground on questionable rules that they don't agree on with the other guy. Long story short don't use a turbo on the monolith just shoot the lord kill him and enough warriors to phase them out...then the monolith goes away.
Fingers crossed that a new cron dex will not have that rule (or at least explain better living metal.)

Dracos wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:So you dont get rending then, either?

Odd.

3+4D6 is RAW, RAI and RAP

So hath the great telepath Nosferatu1001 decreed it, so shall it be. For only he is in possession of the great author mind-reading ability. He shall decree both the rules as intended and how thou shall play them.

....

4d6 + rending would not be 4d6, now would it?

Its kind of stunning to me how many people have added in extra words to the text as they read it (intentionally or otherwise), or ignore what it says outright.

Go add whatever rules you want into your games. That's cool. I know I can read, sorry so many of you have a problem understanding a simple sentence. I've done my best to show you what it says, but it seems like many people will just read the rule whatever way they want it to read anyways.

Q: How does Rending work if you get to roll multiple dice for the Armour Penetration roll? (p31)
A: The player gets to add a D3 to the total for each dice that comes up with a 6.

So apparently this FAQ means nothing to you? Apparently the only rending multiple dice weapon in the game (i certainly cant think of anything) doesnt get rending, because Dracos says so.
I certainly dont need to be a telepath to know how the rules are actually played. I can definitely make an estimate of intent, something you are entirely unable to do, and your "RAW" means chainfists only get 2D6 penetration, making it a nonsense RAW.

But hey, read that sentence your way - everyone else will play it the way that actually works, is supported in the rules, doesnt make chainfists worse than powerfists and is actually played by the vast vast vast majority of people.

Woodrok - you didnt read the OP. The op was NOT ASKING about 4d6. I even quoted them later on.

I already posted saying that grey templar nailed it, after he said that you get +3 to your roll. I was talking about the 4D6.

Yes you will get 3 for the str and they agreed on the 4d6 beforehand so it is irrelevant. I think the only reason this question is there is because the old rifle gave a str of 4.

woodbok wrote:I already posted saying that grey templar nailed it, after he said that you get +3 to your roll. I was talking about the 4D6.

and you still havent read the OP, who has said this thread is NOT about whether you get 4D6 against the monolith. Seriously. ALL this thread is about is the +3, which despite Dracos unfounded assertions which break chainfists into useless items of wargear you DO get

Hey nos, alseep yet?

I just noticed the guy before me wrong what I was going to, so I got nothing else to say. d6+S, anything else is extra.

Seriously: UK Flag. Its currently 7.40pm here

Do we really need to keep going? I am with woodbok now this thread is essentially done as we answered the OPs question. I think that we are all in agreement that he gets +3 (for str or rifle) plus however many dice he and his opponent agreed on.

Akroma06 wrote:

Eldanar wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:It will get 4d6 + 3. The living metal ignores lance and extra dice. I believe it uses those words. This would prevent things like the rending from a sniper, melta effect (not bombs as those specifically say 2d6+8), and chainfists.

This is my thinking (although not sure about bombs or chainfists...)

Chainfists no because they are extra dice (same as the LR variant it says rolls an extra dice for armor penetration.
Melta Bomb yes because it says the grenades do the following damage 2d6 + 8. This is the same as the turbo penetrator (I believe.)
Rending no because it is again an extra dice (albeit a d3 not a d6 but extra all the same.)

Everyone still seems to forget that there is a line in the rule for living metal that say you only ever roll str+1d6 no matter what. Pretty sure that supercedes turbo-pen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akroma06 wrote:Maybe it is my BT then but I thought for sure they rolled an extra d6. If not then they would get both dice then against a monolith.

Chainfist is specifically noted in the liths rules for what do not get 'extra' dice for penetration.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akroma06 wrote:

woodbok wrote:You only get 1 D6. End of thread.

Uh why should this be the end? I don't agree, and if I have learned anything it is that wargammers (myself included) are hard nosed and don't like to give ground on questionable rules that they don't agree on with the other guy. Long story short don't use a turbo on the monolith just shoot the lord kill him and enough warriors to phase them out...then the monolith goes away.
Fingers crossed that a new cron dex will not have that rule (or at least explain better living metal.)

Monstrous creatures get str+2d6 as well, not str+1d6+1 extra die. But against the monolith they get str+1d6. Their penetration rules are stated exactly like everything else and are so negated by living metal, just like everything else.

Kevin949 wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:

Eldanar wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:It will get 4d6 + 3. The living metal ignores lance and extra dice. I believe it uses those words. This would prevent things like the rending from a sniper, melta effect (not bombs as those specifically say 2d6+8), and chainfists.

This is my thinking (although not sure about bombs or chainfists...)

Chainfists no because they are extra dice (same as the LR variant it says rolls an extra dice for armor penetration.
Melta Bomb yes because it says the grenades do the following damage 2d6 + 8. This is the same as the turbo penetrator (I believe.)
Rending no because it is again an extra dice (albeit a d3 not a d6 but extra all the same.)

Everyone still seems to forget that there is a line in the rule for living metal that say you only ever roll str+1d6 no matter what. Pretty sure that supercedes turbo-pen.

Really I would of bet, it says something more along the line of "in practice you never get more then +1D6", not no matter what.

But that really has no point in this Thread.

Noir wrote:
Really I would of bet, it says something more along the line of "in practice you never get more then +1D6", not no matter what.

But that really has no point in this Thread.

Then to add my 2 cents, there's no real reason that the weapon firing the turbo pen round wouldn't still get its 3 str if it still gets rending (since rending is a rule of the sniper and not of the turbo pen round, if memory serves).

And while what I said may have no point in the thread, many people were debating about it already so I decided to join in. And yes, the living metal rule does state, though I don't remember the exact wording, "In practice, any weapon hitting the monolith only gets str+1d6 no matter what." I'd gladly take a picture of the rule as well if I knew it was allowed or not.

Grey Templar wrote:Lets look up the rules for Chainfists shall we.
Space Marine Codex P64
"A chainfist is treated exactly like a powerfist, but rolls 2D6 for its armor penetration value"
by the argument you are using Dracos, a Chainfist will only get 2D6 against vehicles and won't add the users doubled Strength(which will only apply against non-vehicles)

If this is true then turbo pen gets s3+d6 against lith. Otherwise you'd be arguing that chainfists would get 2d6 armor pen against monolith. You wouldn't be arguing that would you?

...and, again - you do realise the OP has already said this thread isnt about the 4D6 issue? Its right there in the first post

This is ONLY about hte strength of the sniper round, which you do get. Yes, dracos, that means you also get rending, as the FAQ I posted proves

i think you should just do what you think is right in game terms