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Oh my god its Shuma!

halonachos wrote:Oh my god its Shuma!

I figured I'd post in here at least once about it before you people drive us to armageddon through sheer ignorance.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

WarOne wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Posts like these are why we're going to default. Our media has been lying to us for ratings and our politicians are cowards. Our electorate is plainly dumb to basic economic or governmental concepts and our elected just ride the stupidity into office. Democracy can't survive modern media. Anyway, back to not posting in OT for me.

Holy gak.

I actually agree with Shuma!


What. The. Hell?!?!

Hell, I won't even pretend to know anything about what is actually going on, as I am pretty sure that the elected officials sent to office thanks to the Tea Party rightly have no freakin' idea what they know about this whole mess either.

Quite frankly, I don't think either side knows what it's doing. Professionally, I have no background in Economics or Business, or anything else like that, but Personally, I LOATHE being in dept.

Now, I'm not going to say Barack is bad or anything, but the dude has constantly lied to us, and I don't trust him. But then, I don't trust any politician, to tell the truth.

How can you say he's lying to you if you fully admit to not knowing what the feth is going on? Doesn't knowing that you're being lied to imply that you know the truth?

I have no idea what's going on currently, but previous experiance with him has shown him to be a liar: During his election campaign, one of his "selling points", if you will, Was completly open and honest politics. Next thing we know is that we are getting a bill shoved down our throats and no one is being told whats in it. During that bill, Barack Obama stated that "Costs will not increase with all these people coming into Medicare". A month or two later, he made a statement saying "Yes, Costs are going to increase, there is no way to add that many people without a Cost Increase".

Now, call me crazy, or tired, or just plain stupid, I don't care, but he has shown that he is willing to tell people what ever they want to hear to get his stuff passed, while being secretive about it. Now, I know politicians/military officials can't tell us everything, because that's just poor security, but come on, these last few years haven't exactly been "Open and Honest".

I'm sorry, I just don't trust Obama. I don't know if he's right or wrong, but I just don't trust him.

Lying once does not mean lying twice.

dogma wrote:Lying once does not mean lying twice.

But Lying twice makes it easier to lie thrice.

I have no idea what's going on currently, but previous experiance with him has shown him to be a liar: During his election campaign, one of his "selling points", if you will, Was completly open and honest politics. Next thing we know is that we are getting a bill shoved down our throats and no one is being told whats in it. During that bill, Barack Obama stated that "Costs will not increase with all these people coming into Medicare". A month or two later, he made a statement saying "Yes, Costs are going to increase, there is no way to add that many people without a Cost Increase".

Is it a lie, or did the bill change? Do you expect presidents to have full control over bills which they do not write, vote on, or or have the power to enforce themselves? Does it matter to you at all?

Now, call me crazy, or tired, or just plain stupid, I don't care, but he has shown that he is willing to tell people what ever they want to hear to get his stuff passed, while being secretive about it.

Obamacare was not a secret. The bills put before voting houses could be read. You chose not to. Its not a secret if you're just to lazy to look into it. I knew what was in those Laws. Dogma knew. Hell, sebster knew and he does't even fething live here. Turn off your TV, load up a PDF and read something. Hell, you could of just read one of the dozens of summaries of each edition of the bill made specifically for easy public consumption.

Now, I know politicians/military officials can't tell us everything, because that's just poor security, but come on, these last few years haven't exactly been "Open and Honest".

Obama pushed through a series of laws about government clarity in funding and lawmaking like year one. You can read bills online because of it. You chose not to. This entire post is all about how you were too lazy to utilize the systems of transparency put into place so you still think it's all murkey and secret. It's not.

I'm sorry, I just don't trust Obama. I don't know if he's right or wrong, but I just don't trust him.

And it's unfortunate that your opinion counts in this democracy because you don't know anything about the things you hold opinions on. You've been brutally misinformed and you wallow in the emotional glitz of fake dirty politics. This democracy will not survive fox news and the blogosphere specifically because it's become to good at turning our citizens into misinformed frightened children. They do it because they have no scruples, are ignorant themselves, or just love money. We lose out because free speech demands that we can't regulate them. Our freedoms will kill us because our citizens aren't adult enough to use them right and our electorates job is to do what we tell them, whether we know whats in our own interests or not (protip: Americans are self destructive idiots politically/ideologically).


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Anyway, I don't like these conversations any more. I don't like talking about peoples feelings concerning political issues. I used to care. I used to want to try to hash it out with people thinking we'd all be smarter in the end for it. I was mistaken. It's going to take a calamity to make people smarter in this country and I doubt they will survive it regardless so I don't care any more. I don't want to live on this planet any more.

Time for me to go to bed then go back to refreshing news and rumors every half hour and avoiding OT entirely tomorrow.

Stormrider wrote:It really doesn't matter what gets passed, our credit rating will go down. It's already too late.

There is more to this than just the credit rating, there's also the basic functioning of government.

The country won't default if the debt limit isn't raised, non-essential parts of the government will be closed one after another to keep spending under the limit. Our government averages about $200 billion in revenues* every month, our Government's obligations equal about $89 Billion per month, where does the rest of that go? To the leviathan in DC.

Health spending is about $800 billion a year, or $67 billion per month, social security is presently about $700 billion a year, or about $58 billion per month, and defence is about $650 billion a year, or $54 billion per month, discretionary spending is also about $650 billion a year, for another $54 billion, and all the other little stuff is another $600 billion or $50 billion per month. That right there is $283 billion per month, more than three times the laughably stupid $89 billion figure you gave.

So, who are you listening to that would get US monthly government expenditure wrong by a factor of 3? Don't you think you should stop listening to someone who knows so little about US government expenditures that they could get it wrong by a factor of 3, and make you look so silly in turn?

Any opposition to an increase is labelled extreme, why?

Because it is stupid. The US has a long term deficit problem, no doubt, but you don't solve long term deficit problems by making extreme, reactionary and absolute steps right now, that kind of action destroys confidence, dismantles economic processes and plunges economies into incredibly strong recessions.

Also, while the US economic activity remains weak the last thing you need is

What good does it do to keep spending at a pace four times as large a GWB's? What's so vital in the federal government that non-essentials must stay open?

Defence, health, welfare and infrastructure. You know, government.

Also, spending isn't four times that of GWB. 2011 total expenditure is $3.82 trillion, in 2009, the last budget submitted by GWB, total expenditure was $3.11 trillion. This is an increase of 23%, which is different to your claim of 400% by an order of more than 16 times.

Who told you that expenditure had increased four times, and why are listening to someone with such a terrible understanding of US government spending?

* I despise the use of revenue in this context, but since it's the new code word for taxes I guess I have to now. Stupid word games in the media.

Umm, it's because government attracts income from sources other than taxes. Right now social security makes up about 40% of government revenues, and miscellaneous non-tax revenues make up about another 5%. Taxes only describe 55% of revenue.

If you think 'revenue' is a new term for the amount government receives each year this reflects very poorly on the depth of your reading on the subject. Perhaps you should stop reading whatever clown told you government outlays $89 billion per month, and start actually reading some informative sources.


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WarOne wrote:AGGGHHHH.

I said WHERE!!!!

Yeah, and that place is Monday. It's a totally cool club that only cool people know about, so I better stop talking about it right now.

ShumaGorath wrote:

I have no idea what's going on currently, but previous experiance with him has shown him to be a liar: During his election campaign, one of his "selling points", if you will, Was completly open and honest politics. Next thing we know is that we are getting a bill shoved down our throats and no one is being told whats in it. During that bill, Barack Obama stated that "Costs will not increase with all these people coming into Medicare". A month or two later, he made a statement saying "Yes, Costs are going to increase, there is no way to add that many people without a Cost Increase".

Is it a lie, or did the bill change? Do you expect presidents to have full control over bills which they do not write, vote on, or or have the power to enforce themselves? Does it matter to you at all?

Now, call me crazy, or tired, or just plain stupid, I don't care, but he has shown that he is willing to tell people what ever they want to hear to get his stuff passed, while being secretive about it.

Obamacare was not a secret. The bills put before voting houses could be read. You chose not to. Its not a secret if you're just to lazy to look into it. I knew what was in those Laws. Dogma knew. Hell, sebster knew and he does't even fething live here. Turn off your TV, load up a PDF and read something. Hell, you could of just read one of the dozens of summaries of each edition of the bill made specifically for easy public consumption.

Now, I know politicians/military officials can't tell us everything, because that's just poor security, but come on, these last few years haven't exactly been "Open and Honest".

Obama pushed through a series of laws about government clarity in funding and lawmaking like year one. You can read bills online because of it. You chose not to. This entire post is all about how you were too lazy to utilize the systems of transparency put into place so you still think it's all murkey and secret. It's not.

I'm sorry, I just don't trust Obama. I don't know if he's right or wrong, but I just don't trust him.

And it's unfortunate that your opinion counts in this democracy because you don't know anything about the things you hold opinions on. You've been brutally misinformed and you wallow in the emotional glitz of fake dirty politics. This democracy will not survive fox news and the blogosphere specifically because it's become to good at turning our citizens into misinformed frightened children. They do it because they have no scruples, are ignorant themselves, or just love money. We lose out because free speech demands that we can't regulate them. Our freedoms will kill us because our citizens aren't adult enough to use them right and our electorates job is to do what we tell them, whether we know whats in our own interests or not (protip: Americans are self destructive idiots politically/ideologically).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, I don't like these conversations any more. I don't like talking about peoples feelings concerning political issues. I used to care. I used to want to try to hash it out with people thinking we'd all be smarter in the end for it. I was mistaken. It's going to take a calamity to make people smarter in this country and I doubt they will survive it regardless so I don't care any more. I don't want to live on this planet any more.

Time for me to go to bed then go back to refreshing news and rumors every half hour and avoiding OT entirely tomorrow.

Does it matter to me? I should fething hope so, it's my country damnit.

Honestly, though, I read that entire thing in the same voice as an Inquisitors "Repent! REPENT DAMN YOU!". Honestly, most of that sounded like your hating on me because I'm "too stupid" and therefor MUST listen to Fox's every word. I don't, just FYI.

Maybe I will read about it, since I didn't know it even existed. Maybe you should get off your high horse you've always been on? Not everyone is as mighty as the.... Mighty! Shuma Gorath and just KNOWS when things become available.

Also, "We will kill ourselves because our freedoms mean we can't regulate our news stations!!!!!111!!". No gak, everyone knows thats going to happen; look at Ancient Rome, the most powerful nation at it's time; Conquered quite a bit of land, became fat, decadent, and lazy, and then got taken out. Now look at America; We put a boot in Britains ass (no offense), became one of the worlds most powerful nations, if not the most powerful..... and now we are fat, lazy, and decadent. I imagine in your overabundance of schooling you can add one and one

I never understood why people in other countries take it upon themselves to worry about america, like we're some incompetant man-baby. Yeah times are tough, and yeah it'll get worse, but, there's always room for hope, hope that things will be better.

remilia_scarlet wrote:I never understood why people in other countries take it upon themselves to worry about america, like we're some incompetant man-baby.

Because we are?

dogma wrote:

remilia_scarlet wrote:I never understood why people in other countries take it upon themselves to worry about america, like we're some incompetant man-baby.

Because we are?

If we are, it is because we let ourselves. Since obama couldn't keep his promise of making things better, vote someone else who can improve things, if he fails, repeat process. That's not all, most of everything we depend on, from auto parts to clothing, we make very little, and in so, very few jobs are available.

Sadly, as china becomes more and more of an economic powerhouse, we gain more debt, even though we're only valuble through our debt.

remilia_scarlet wrote:I never understood why people in other countries take it upon themselves to worry about america, like we're some incompetant man-baby. Yeah times are tough, and yeah it'll get worse, but, there's always room for hope, hope that things will be better.

Do you think people are 'worrying' about the US, or talking about the politics of the day?

sebster wrote:

remilia_scarlet wrote:I never understood why people in other countries take it upon themselves to worry about america, like we're some incompetant man-baby. Yeah times are tough, and yeah it'll get worse, but, there's always room for hope, hope that things will be better.

Do you think people are 'worrying' about the US, or talking about the politics of the day?

Well, worry wasn't a good choice of words, but, yes, apparently it's a hot topic, in fact, today, my mama in moscow saw fit to ask about it, and she told me that people have been talking a lot about it.

remilia_scarlet wrote:Well, worry wasn't a good choice of words, but, yes, apparently it's a hot topic, in fact, today, my mama in moscow saw fit to ask about it, and she told me that people have been talking a lot about it.

It is a pretty big deal, I mean, countries have defaulted on their debt before, but no country had ever just decided that it was just going to stop paying it's obligations. If the US actually gets to the 2nd without a deal increasing the deficit, it'd be a world first.

sebster wrote:If the US actually gets to the 2nd without a deal increasing the deficit, it'd be a world first.

Again, leading the way, as the USA always does!

So come the day of Bankruptcy...Will the States pretty much just "Buy itself out" cause I'm pretty sure this world can't live without Americans...regretfully saying...and can't live without an American Dollar....AND I'm damn sure this world cant work IF it works on a friggen Yen

Rogueyopants wrote:So come the day of Bankruptcy...Will the States pretty much just "Buy itself out" cause I'm pretty sure this world can't live without Americans...regretfully saying...and can't live without an American Dollar....AND I'm damn sure this world cant work IF it works on a friggen Yen

>implying they won't just pay us in rice, if they pay us at all

Honestly, I'm kinda scared of china, they outnumber us 20 to 1.

I could not care less about America in general, althou it would make for intresting tv when it finaly comes crashing down around them. And besides, just friking agree on something will you? I mean its the future of your country!

Trondheim wrote:I could not care less about America in general, althou it would make for intresting tv when it finaly comes crashing down around them. And besides, just friking agree on something will you? I mean its the future of your country!

Well, I don't know what to say about that.....

Trondheim wrote:I could not care less about America in general, althou it would make for intresting tv when it finaly comes crashing down around them. And besides, just friking agree on something will you? I mean its the future of your country!

You Sir, are a complete Idiot, This world..regretfully...could NOT function with out the states...China could not even do it..don't make me explain why. You clearly do not know what your talking about. When I made this post, I did not ask for idiots to post silly little immature dumb stuff


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Worry about your own damn county, its in more crap than the states atm, so you have nothing to comment about


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jesus, I'm really pissed atm now because of that comment. I'm not a huge fan of the states, so is the rest of the world really, but frankly...we sorta of need them.

Christ the ignorance of some people.

Rogueyopants wrote:

Trondheim wrote:I could not care less about America in general, althou it would make for intresting tv when it finaly comes crashing down around them. And besides, just friking agree on something will you? I mean its the future of your country!

You Sir, are a complete Idiot, This world..regretfully...could NOT function with out the states...China could not even do it..don't make me explain why. You clearly do not know what your talking about. When I made this post, I did not ask for idiots to post silly little immature dumb stuff


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Worry about your own damn county, its in more crap than the states atm, so you have nothing to comment about


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jesus, I'm really pissed atm now because of that comment. I'm not a huge fan of the states, so is the rest of the world really, but frankly...we sorta of need them.

Christ the ignorance of some people.

This sort of thing kills me; how can we ever have civilized debates in OT if we get stuff like this for someone simply sharing his opinion?

How much trouble do you think America would get into by saying " nope that was the other guy that borrowed your money and since he is not in office anymore we are no longer obligated to pay you"?

(please dont beat me with sharp objects.)

WarOne wrote:Where do you guys think the Republicans and Democrats can come together and actually get any deal through in order to avoid this whole mess?

I suspect that if they don't make a deal, Obama will just order the treasury to keep writing checks. There's a strong argument that it's legal, both because of the 14th amendment and because congress authorized spending by passing bills for spending, overriding the debt bill (congress can vote to replace any old laws, only constitutional amendments can't be overridden). Even if someone doesn't accept the argument, there's no mechanism to force the treasury to stop writing checks unless Congress wants to impeach Obama, which I don't think would end well for the Republicans.

I expect Obama to fold though, it's been his usual pattern.


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Skycrawler wrote:How much trouble do you think America would get into by saying " nope that was the other guy that borrowed your money and since he is not in office anymore we are no longer obligated to pay you"?

70% of the us debt is held by Americans, I don't really expect an elected US official to tell a bunch of retirees that their savings are completely worthless. Especially since the retired have the highest voter turnout. There really are a lot of misconceptions about how govenment debt works.

Ah ok. I was thinking it was foriegn countries that held the most of americas debt.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:
I expect Obama to fold though, it's been his usual pattern.

I think that, in this case,the cost of folding will produce the opposite effect. The current administration hasn't been put in a do or die situation yet.

Trondheim wrote:I could not care less about America in general, althou it would make for intresting tv when it finaly comes crashing down around them. And besides, just friking agree on something will you? I mean its the future of your country!

Yes, if only we could learn to compromise from our enlightened European brothers....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932011_Belgian_political_crisis#2010_federal_elections_and_aftermath

Beligum is our pet rock.

WE need to do some serious cutting of our military. Cutting anything else, like National Science Foundation, NOAA, or NASA is just stupid.

Skycrawler wrote:How much trouble do you think America would get into by saying " nope that was the other guy that borrowed your money and since he is not in office anymore we are no longer obligated to pay you"?

The 14th Amendment prohibits this. Any federal court order the President to pay on the debts or Congress to authorize it. Of course, then you get into the problem of conflict between the elected branches of government. And if any of them start seriously disregarding the others, then the system collapses. Note that we would be fine with 2 branches of government, problems only arise when two branches ignores the others.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:I suspect that if they don't make a deal, Obama will just order the treasury to keep writing checks. There's a strong argument that it's legal, both because of the 14th amendment and because congress authorized spending by passing bills for spending, overriding the debt bill (congress can vote to replace any old laws, only constitutional amendments can't be overridden). Even if someone doesn't accept the argument, there's no mechanism to force the treasury to stop writing checks unless Congress wants to impeach Obama, which I don't think would end well for the Republicans.

Ah geez, not this crap again. There's no Constitutional authority for the President to issue debt. None whatsoever.

However, I think the president could get away with authorizing and issuing debt (no one would have standing to challenge the issuance). It's just that Congress could later repudiate the debt by whim (the debt wouldn't be authorized by law, as required by the 14th Amendment and spelled out in Article 1, section 8), so very few people would be willing to purchase that debt, since it would only be backed up only by the President's political power.

Manstein wrote:A sad day when the idea of actually stopping to pay your bills and not go on "maxing out more credit cards" is fringe.

Pfah, the Tea Party doesn't believe in that. If they did, they'd not oppose a tax increase.

The Tea Party is purely a populist movement with no set goals, nothing more.