How much would you pay for a 4 hour gaming sesion?

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**Skinnereal**

There have been comments about the differences in gaming between Europe (UK in particular), The US and other parts of the world.
UK shops might have room for 3 tables at most, I seem to recall. If a shop has room, it'll be free to play, as is at GWUK.
UK clubs have more room, but there's no income to support their use, so subs are the norm.

**biccat**

theunicorn wrote:Support your local store pay retail prices to the local business person that is helping build a solid gaming community and be prepared to pay a reasonable table fee.

The atmosphere is different between a club and a game store. If it's a club, I wouldn't mind paying to play. But at a game store, part of the reason I shop there is because they have a good environment for gaming. If they don't have tables where I can play, or are going to charge me to play, I'm not going to buy from the store, it's as simple as that.

There are 4 decent GW retailers within a reasonable distance. One has no game space but offers a good discount. I don't shop there. One charges full retail price and has some game space, but it's tight and inconvenient. I don't play there. The other two both offer bulk discounts and have large areas for free gaming. I buy from either of those stores as they're willing to give me more for the price I'm paying. All four have been in business for at least 10 years (one has changed owners in that period).

Of course, this is in the midwest where the price for retail real estate isn't too bad because there's a lot of open space. I'm sure if you were in a larger city (Chicago, New York, LA) stores wouldn't be able to offer both free game space and discounts.

**njpc**

I am vague on what the context is on a "4 hours gaming session"

Examples:
1. A 4-5 rounds Privateer Press Warma / Hordes event can be run in 4 hours. I'd happily pay up $10 for that, depending the size. If the event spanned to 40-50 guys, i'd understand if its $15 considering often there is good prize support.

2. 4-5 hours of open gaming. I've never paid to open / play pick up games. I've never run into it in any of the Tri State Area in USA ~ New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware. I wouldn't be opposed to gaming stores having a $5 monthly membership, which I have not see. However, paying to just pop in and pick up game I don't think I'd do.

3. Specialized event. This could be a massive apocolypse game. A special day of gaming, such as a Mini FLGS Gamesday. I'd consider paying $10-15. Often specialized events have the owners putting their own money into get prize support and resources to run it successfully. Thus I think they are right to charge.

4. Grand Tournment. These are usually multi day events. However, I'm used to paying $30-40 for a ticket. Usually they have free give aways, good prize support for sportsman, painting, and 1st-3rd place. I have never felt cheated for paying to enter a GT. The highest I paid was $50 for 2 days, which did not including a room. I have no problem with that, because the fun vs cost factor is always worth it.

**Rythgar**

I've never had to pay to play at my flgs. I already spend a lot of money there between minis and mtg so having a place to play the games they sell seems like a gimme to me. No store I've ever been in has charged guys to play tcgs so i kind of expect the same thing for wargamers.

**Jimsolo**

I'm not willing to pay just for the privilege of playing. If the store wants to institute a policy requiring a minimum amount you spend on a game night, that's a different story, in which case five bucks is the max or ten for a tourney. I think those numbers translate to what, around three and a quarter for the former and six and a half for the latter? I don't know exchange rates off the top of my head.

**bazookatooth**

I would never pay to play somewhere, that just seems ludacris to me. I have never even heard of a place that charges to play. you spend enough money on the hobby without someone trying to bleed you for playing time too. If my FLGS started charging, i'd just invite everyone to my house to play.

**Worglock**

I play for free at my local GW. Never payed to play somewhere, never will.

**augustus5**

theunicorn wrote:In the past 19years that I have been going to game stores I have seen all but one shut down. probably 20 or so different stores. The one that is still open has a 6x4 and 2 4x4 tables in a back room that the store does not need for dispplaying merchandise. All other gaming store/venues had far more tables, in some instances as many as 9 6x4 plus a hobby build & paint station. These stores often had good people and were friendly, the problem was they had to be much larger in terms of actual store size.

This means the rent was higher for the location, heating and cooling bills were also much higher, and the store had to spend money on tables, chairs, terrain, and maintenance. All these extra costs in the hope that the other half of the store makes more money to offset the costs. THEY ALL FAILED.

All other retail operations ensure that they maximize the profit return on the sq footage they pay for. Expecting a shop to double or triple its size and overhead costs so that it can provide you a free place to play is ridiculous.
Most other gaming establishments charge to use the facilities, be it bowling, billiards, darts, foosball, etc. Sure many of us buy our own supplies to play these games and some of us even buy our own billiard table. Having purchased these things does not entitle us to free use of them at someone else's business.

The shop owners are not driving around in a new porsche eating lobster dinners fed to them by bikini clad slave girls. They are People that are struggling to make it work every month, year after year.

Your options are simple;
Support your local store pay retail prices to the local business person that is helping build a solid gaming community and be prepared to pay a reasonable table fee.

or

Sell your stuff cheap on eBay when the local gaming community dries up and dies, leaving you and TFG from the shop as the last gamers in your home area.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence. It may not be representative of the whole. I will present you with some anecdotal evidence of my own.

In my experience, in the twenty plus years I have been gaming, there has been one store that has been a constant while others (including a GW store) have come and gone. This store started out in a cramped space with a room upstairs that could fit a couple tables. Gaming there was always free. They are now in a large space with maybe 10-12 8x4 tables and as many regular sized tables for rpg/card gaming. The game space is still free. They have grown and thrived in part because of the welcoming attitude they have shown toward their customers over the years. Had they ever started making odd restrictions on their gaming space or started charging, they may well have gone the way of the other shops around here. I know that I would not game there if they charged a fee. If I didn't game there, I probably would not bother stopping in there for purchases that I could simply order online either. They have built a loyal customer base by being a comfortable place to hang out and get in a game or paint.

**LazzurusMan**

Just to clarify this hhas nothing to do with gaming in a store, me and a partner are "renting" a space in a local youth building to set up and run a 4-5 hour gaming day for a college course where the objective is to make at least a small profit. This is not in any way linked to a store as i agree that store gaming should be free, but we have to charge for the gaming day to cover the cost of the venue.

Hope this helps to clarify thing slightly ^^

**Ugavine**

The club I go to charges £2 to go towards the hire of the hall. That includes access to tables and the clubs wargames terrain. I think it's a more than reasonable charge. And I certainly don't have the room at home to set up a table large enough for 40K.

**njpc**

LazzurusMan wrote:Just to clarify this hhas nothing to do with gaming in a store, me and a partner are "renting" a space in a local youth building to set up and run a 4-5 hour gaming day for a college course where the objective is to make at least a small profit. This is not in any way linked to a store as i agree that store gaming should be free, but we have to charge for the gaming day to cover the cost of the venue.

Hope this helps to clarify thing slightly ^^

Is this for a business course, where your assignment is to try to set up a event, publicize it, and try to prove you were successful? ~ If so, you really have a narrow margin of error and a really tight sample population your aiming at. As far as making a profit, how are you planning on declaring you made a profit? Are you and a buddy just keeping the side cash for yourselves?

I'd make it a tournment with prize support otherwise, it basically looks like "come pay us so you can play for the day." And honestly, that sounds like a rip off, and if I were a consumer in your area I would not bother showing up or even considering it.

**Jimsolo**

njpc wrote:
LazzurusMan wrote:Just to clarify this hhas nothing to do with gaming in a store, me and a partner are "renting" a space in a local youth building to set up and run a 4-5 hour gaming day for a college course where the objective is to make at least a small profit. This is not in any way linked to a store as i agree that store gaming should be free, but we have to charge for the gaming day to cover the cost of the venue.

Hope this helps to clarify thing slightly ^^

Is this for a business course, where your assignment is to try to set up a event, publicize it, and try to prove you were successful? ~ If so, you really have a narrow margin of error and a really tight sample population your aiming at. As far as making a profit, how are you planning on declaring you made a profit? Are you and a buddy just keeping the side cash for yourselves?

I'd make it a tournment with prize support otherwise, it basically looks like "come pay us so you can play for the day." And honestly, that sounds like a rip off, and if I were a consumer in your area I would not bother showing up or even considering it.

First off, sorry, I didn't catch the youth center or college course parts the first time through.

Second off, yeah, if I am going to pay, I would hope there is a reason for it. Booze served by scantily clad women, tournament prizes, the opportunity to play with famous people, or some other opportunity which makes the event not just a run of the mill game day.

**oni**

I'd pay nothing... Not enough information provided.

**mikhaila**

augustus5 wrote:
theunicorn wrote:In the past 19years that I have been going to game stores I have seen all but one shut down. probably 20 or so different stores. The one that is still open has a 6x4 and 2 4x4 tables in a back room that the store does not need for dispplaying merchandise. All other gaming store/venues had far more tables, in some instances as many as 9 6x4 plus a hobby build & paint station. These stores often had good people and were friendly, the problem was they had to be much larger in terms of actual store size.

This means the rent was higher for the location, heating and cooling bills were also much higher, and the store had to spend money on tables, chairs, terrain, and maintenance. All these extra costs in the hope that the other half of the store makes more money to offset the costs. THEY ALL FAILED.

All other retail operations ensure that they maximize the profit return on the sq footage they pay for. Expecting a shop to double or triple its size and overhead costs so that it can provide you a free place to play is ridiculous.
Most other gaming establishments charge to use the facilities, be it bowling, billiards, darts, foosball, etc. Sure many of us buy our own supplies to play these games and some of us even buy our own billiard table. Having purchased these things does not entitle us to free use of them at someone else's business.

The shop owners are not driving around in a new porsche eating lobster dinners fed to them by bikini clad slave girls. They are People that are struggling to make it work every month, year after year.

Your options are simple;
Support your local store pay retail prices to the local business person that is helping build a solid gaming community and be prepared to pay a reasonable table fee.

or

Sell your stuff cheap on eBay when the local gaming community dries up and dies, leaving you and TFG from the shop as the last gamers in your home area.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence. It may not be representative of the whole. I will present you with some anecdotal evidence of my own.

In my experience, in the twenty plus years I have been gaming, there has been one store that has been a constant while others (including a GW store) have come and gone. This store started out in a cramped space with a room upstairs that could fit a couple tables. Gaming there was always free. They are now in a large space with maybe 10-12 8x4 tables and as many regular sized tables for rpg/card gaming. The game space is still free. They have grown and thrived in part because of the welcoming attitude they have shown toward their customers over the years. Had they ever started making odd restrictions on their gaming space or started charging, they may well have gone the way of the other shops around here. I know that I would not game there if they charged a fee. If I didn't game there, I probably would not bother stopping in there for purchases that I could simply order online either. They have built a loyal customer base by being a comfortable place to hang out and get in a game or paint.

Obviously biased, but I think gaming stores need space/tables/scenery for OP. On the various retailer boards, it's taken as granted that a strong OP program and customer support are things that can help a store to survive.

TheUnicorn: Your observations mirror the industry, but not for the reasons you state. Over a 20 year period 19 of 20 gaming stores have gone out of business, Everywhere. We have a failure/turnover rate similar to resturants and bars. Tricky business to make work, but easy to get started.

Gaming tables and space are essential if your main store stock is games. However, tables don't help if the store has a poor stock of games, a bad attitude from employees, poor parking, or low population density. Gaming tables and events are a force multiplier, part of what the store needs to maximize profits, and needs people, event support, and a good atmosphere along with the play space.

Tables alone won't help a store survive, and lack of tables doesn't mean death.

My personal strategy is to used events and gaming space to drive attendance and customer flow. By stocking the items those players want, I create demand, then sales and profits. I absolutely don't want to charge for pick up games and non-event play. I want people using the tables, as it brings in more people to the store. For events where we have prizes or other costs, I charge a fee.

Is this the best strategy? I think so, and it's my work and money on the line, so I get to make the call. Another store might do it differently. I've had shops for 20 years. I've been adding table space and events steadily, and this year we took a jump to a store over twice as big, to have even more table space. In another 20 years, I'll have a better idea on how the strategy is working.)

**theunicorn**

@mikhaila
I wish I were close enough to shop at your store. I love the fact that your area has a strong enough gaming community to have let you grow. I remember your posts about moving to the new location.

In my area none of our stores current or closed charge a table fee, I would still support a fee or punch card based of of $X.xx sales per punch for gaming in a nice neutral location. But I am a retail business owner and see the situation from that point of view.

My wife used to be a Reaper employee working at a mall location with the son of the owners of the company, so I have a better than average understanding of the ups and downs from that angle as well. She and I both before and after her employement with Reaper still were great friends with the owners of our local FLGS we helped them move to and remodel their 2 of 3 locations and would send GW traffic to that store, even though Reaper was in competition. The folks at the store understood that a healthy gaming and hobby community was important to everyones success.

I love Free open gaming at a FLGS, but I would support a business and use of its facilities if it were in a positition that required it.

**theQuanz**

The only reason I would pay to play is if there were prizes at the end of the game.

**Solorg**

theunicorn wrote:Most other gaming establishments charge to use the facilities, be it bowling, billiards, darts, foosball, etc. Sure many of us buy our own supplies to play these games and some of us even buy our own billiard table. Having purchased these things does not entitle us to free use of them at someone else's business.

When I go to a restaraunt and pay to use their tables, they bring me food. If I pay for billiards, they provide everything I need in order to play. If my gaming store provided the armies for me and my opponent, I could see paying for that. But pay just to play? Not if I already spent $600 on my army.

Now if they went the extra mile to provide a fridge, soda, snacks, pizza, a jukebox, the ability to watch a movie while playing or whatever then I could see spending some money while playing. I am happy to buy snaxx at my gamestore for example.

The store is nice as a way to meet people. But I'd only pay if I was desperate for a game and honestly, one of the reasons I've even invested so much in 40K is that, as expensive as it is, once you've bought the stuff, the game itself is free.

Although my store DOES need money and I see the value of supporting my local store, it isn't a charity. Before I throw money at them I need to feel I'm getting value for my money. And as nice as it is to play in the store I just can't see paying money to play a game that I own and paid for already.

I think the ideal is that the store makes the money they need to make off of the products they sell. My gamestore sells for more than, say, Warstore. But people buy from them because they are drawn to the store and to the community there. That money helps to pay the rent and the heat, etc. The store also hold CCG tournaments which they charge for - but they are sealed-pack tournaments, so you pay, you get something for your money, then you compete. AND there are prizes. No one is twisting your arm to play. But if you do, you get something for it AND you have a chance at winning something, too. That's a good idea in my mind.

**Brother Sergeant Cody**

I'd pay nothing because if your among other players who are your friends its kinda priceless if you ask me?

**G00fySmiley**

at my flgs they don't charge for use of thier tables at all, free to use tables and terrain but everybody that goes in thereits practically an unwritten rule when you go buy something. don't care what, they even sell cady like airheads for $0.50 or a soda for $1.50. and i try to get people to buy thier models from the store as well but that is a mixed bag.. overall though it is good to support the store, but i don't think unless it is an event or if they don't sell anything else they should charge for table use and even then that'd be a pretty fail buisness model

**Jimsolo**

Mik, that's an awesome store you're running there. I sincerely wish I lived in Philly. Unfortunately, you're a 20 hour drive away from me. I set your address into my GPS though, in case I am ever in your area. Beautiful store.

**carmachu**

mikhaila wrote:

Some advantages might be: Bigger or more tables, more and better scenery, don't have to invite strangers to your house, etc.

Good chance to play TFG.....Or mr stinky.....or a 12 year old.....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

theunicorn wrote:
Most other gaming establishments charge to use the facilities, be it bowling, billiards, darts, foosball, etc. Sure many of us buy our own supplies to play these games and some of us even buy our own billiard table. Having purchased these things does not entitle us to free use of them at someone else's business.

ALL those facilities listed make money BY charging for the use of facilities. They are NOT primarily retail outlets for items. Thats apples and orange comparisons.

**rockerbikie**

If it pay for paint and glue, 5 pounds.
If not, 2 pounds.

**Lycaeus Wrex**

Right, here's the thing. In the UK there's a GW in pretty much every town and, whilst for the most part they only let you play on 4x4s, they let you play for free, on RoB boards, with fairly solid terrain pieces. The question you need to ask yourself is: can I beat that offer by a large enough margin to warrant charging the people who come to game?

If you are offering quality tables, with good scenery, in nice surroundings, with adequate amenities nearby then maybe maybe I'd consider dropping a few quid to compensate for the rent of the room/hall you are putting the tables in. I would most definitely NOT pay money purely for you to make a profit, that ain't how wargaming works I'm afraid.

People want to know what they're paying for and, like I said earlier, if you are charging them excessively for something that they can get elsewhere (or at home) for free then this is kind of guaranteed to flop.

L. Wrex

Oh, and I voted 'nothing' as I don't pay to play a game that I've already invested a ton of money into. At least not until I get ingratiated into a club worthy of my cash.

**Llamahead**

When the club I pay at hires a room we all chip in to pay for it at about £2 a head. Covering the rent is reasonable for a club making a profit on it probably isn't. Lycaeous there isn't a GW in Wisbech and the closest are about 50 miles away (Norwich, Peterborough or Cambridge). It's also good to definitely get a table which gaming clubs usually provide and scenery. By the way OP there's a club on thursdays in Lakenheath if that helps.

**LazzurusMan**

Well after reading the latest comments i have considered making it into a dubble tournament/campaign thing. 1 for Fantasy another for 40k.

And yes this is for a bussiness style course, we have to run the project starting with only a budget of £10 and make a profit from it.

Thanks again peeps ^^

LazzurusMan

**chromedog**

I pay $10AUD per DAY at my club (this is up to around 12 hours gaming).

My previous clubs have all been the same. One charge for the day.

I think the most I've ever paid for a 4 hour block of gaming time is at my club's annual 40k tourney. $10.

We hire a local hall for the weekend. It's for 3 hours on the friday (setup), 12 hours for the saturday, 12 hours for the sunday and 3 more hours for the monday (cleanup and takedown) for the set price.

If we want to use it for longer on the friday or saturday, we pay an excess hours charge (4 hours). This usually works out at $10 per player - to soften the blow, the grown-ups get a beer out of it as well (minors get soft drinks).

**LazzurusMan**

Only problem with alcohol is neither of us are 18 or older and cannot legaly serve drinks or drink them lol

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Right, the gaming day is now officialy gonna ba a tournament, 6 hours long (hopefully) with a small trophy as the prize, £2.50 entry and a small fee for food and drinks.

That sound better? ^^

LazzurusMan

**ZatGuy**

Weekly tournament, $10 CAD entry free, $8 refunded in store credit to all players, $20 to the winner.

That is how one of the two FLGS's in my area does things, no GW store for several hundred miles and across an ocean. So ~$5 CAN is what I'd pay for a 4 hour gaming session if required. Good way to play people outside your circle.

**LazzurusMan**

Hopefully, if all goes well this may even become a anual event for local gamers, for i'd say a £3.00 charg sounds fair for 6 hours of gaming , pluss a small plaque for 1st, 2nd, and best sportsmanship? ^^

LazzurusMan

**boyd**

Depends on the table, the number of players, etc. I mainly play in tournaments in my area due to the fact I can play 3 games and get lunch in there for $10 USD ~6-7 BPS.