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nomotog wrote:
The singing and dancing is not the reason. (I dosen't help though) It's because they just forgot a lot of it.

If apocalypse happened to Earth and we get throw back to stone age you think we would remember how to build Super Computer right after the apocalypse ends? History told us that understanding for past things can be very difficult thing ( even today we don't know how many long dead people lived or what did they use for tools ), and that is what people don't understand - they forget it because the Fall of the Eldar cause warp storms on such scale that worlds became cut one from another and people stingle to survive. And afetr many centuries past none remembered how stuff works because none has left alive with that knowledge, they could only guess that.


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Kilkrazy wrote:Eldar have the highest technology, however it is dependant largely on their space magic and they are not developing it.

Necrons have the most advanced tech in the galaxy. Eldar don't have their FTL drive even nothing to match their weapons.
But 2 races have something in common - they can build anything new ( Necrons are moslt rain dead while Eldar tech was gift from the old ones. They don't know how to replicate it ).

The example was that the Tau have gone "beyond" such primitive natures.

Plasma, Ion, EMP, fusion, and neutron weapons are going to do jack against an enemy that's evolved to counter energy weapons.
Railguns, Missiles, flame, and solid slug weaponry are NOT used by the Tau in large numbers. The Tau had to ditch their Pulse Rifles to pick up Kroot Rifles, that pretty much tells me all I need to know.

If they can't be compared, then why were you comparing them? By that logic this whole arguement is pointless.

You're right. It is. Maybe it's time people realize, however, that Tau are NOT the dominant technological race in the universe. They are, however as it's been said time and time again in the Tau Codex, advancing at a remarkable pace. It's the whole basis behind the Tau--they're advancing far faster than they should be, and there's no explanation as to why that can be offered by the Imperium's observers or even the Eldar's observers.

The thread title is "Tau Technology" and nomotog was talking about how the Tau advance their tech while the IoM doesn't. I think you can excuse me for thinking you were talking about technology.

And if you'd read the post I was replying to, you'd understand why it wasn't about "a technological disadvantage".

The Tau don't utilize boltguns or Leman Russes because they don't use the same approach to warfare that the Imperium uses. They don't sheath their shock troops, who deploy via Drop Pods, in layers of ceramite armor and give them Boltgun equivalents.

The Tau utilize their shock troops(the Crisis variants) to exploit or create openings in static defensive lines to ensure that the following attacks are not going to break against the threats the Crisis Suits encountered.

Kanluwen wrote:

TrollPie wrote:

Nicholas wrote:

nomotog wrote:Well their you have it. The IoM can't advance their tech. The tau advance their tech. Add to that the tau pulse rifle packs more punch & has a longer range then a boltgun. It's not hard to see here.

On tabletop it does, but on fluff it's most likely not much of a difference. Nobody is saying the Tau won't eventually beat the Imperium techwise they just haven't peaked yet like the IOM. Their also comes the problem of comparing the two because of the huge scale difference between the two. We will never know if they could continue to mass produce their best tech if they were at the scale of the IOM.

Boltguns don't have the same massive thermal energy that a pulse round delivers. The round itself is also ridiculously big and, in game and in fluff, doesn't have the range or power of a PR. It's described in one book as being more akin to an artillery piece than a rifle.

Whoever described it as such should be beaten with a wet noodle then, because the Boltgun is far from being "akin to an artillery piece than a rifle".

Boltguns, when described in fluff that isn't written by an author who should be writing in crayon, are far more like the anti-tank guns fielded during WW1/WW2 or the large caliber anti-material rifles fielded today. Even if they do not detonate and kill you, the round itself will tear a hole through you.

I was referring to the pulse rifle.

Source: 40k wiki. Oops.


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nomotog wrote:One of the arguments I always question is that the IoM adapted their tech differently or that they adapt it perfectly to them. That they are perfectly happy giving their troops lasguns and don't want them to have better stuff. The IoM dosen't have that much control of their tech.

They do not have it now. They did have it, however, when the Lasgun was being issued over the Hellguns, solid slug weapons, grenade launchers with the fire rates of LMGs, etc.

Just wanted to point out that we have those today. They're pretty old now. And they're so fething awesome.

Kanluwen wrote:
God I can't wait for the machines to rebel then.

That would be a blast, for Tau that is


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TrollPie wrote: I have no idea what SG-1.

You never heard about StarGate?

TrollPie wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

TrollPie wrote:

Nicholas wrote:

nomotog wrote:Well their you have it. The IoM can't advance their tech. The tau advance their tech. Add to that the tau pulse rifle packs more punch & has a longer range then a boltgun. It's not hard to see here.

On tabletop it does, but on fluff it's most likely not much of a difference. Nobody is saying the Tau won't eventually beat the Imperium techwise they just haven't peaked yet like the IOM. Their also comes the problem of comparing the two because of the huge scale difference between the two. We will never know if they could continue to mass produce their best tech if they were at the scale of the IOM.

Boltguns don't have the same massive thermal energy that a pulse round delivers. The round itself is also ridiculously big and, in game and in fluff, doesn't have the range or power of a PR. It's described in one book as being more akin to an artillery piece than a rifle.

Whoever described it as such should be beaten with a wet noodle then, because the Boltgun is far from being "akin to an artillery piece than a rifle".

Boltguns, when described in fluff that isn't written by an author who should be writing in crayon, are far more like the anti-tank guns fielded during WW1/WW2 or the large caliber anti-material rifles fielded today. Even if they do not detonate and kill you, the round itself will tear a hole through you.

I was referring to the pulse rifle.

Source: 40k wiki. Oops.

Well there's your problem.

nomotog wrote:One of the arguments I always question is that the IoM adapted their tech differently or that they adapt it perfectly to them. That they are perfectly happy giving their troops lasguns and don't want them to have better stuff. The IoM dosen't have that much control of their tech.

They do not have it now. They did have it, however, when the Lasgun was being issued over the Hellguns, solid slug weapons, grenade launchers with the fire rates of LMGs, etc.

Just wanted to point out that we have those today. They're pretty old now. And they're so fething awesome.

Kanluwen wrote:The example was that the Tau have gone "beyond" such primitive natures.

Plasma, Ion, EMP, fusion, and neutron weapons are going to do jack against an enemy that's evolved to counter energy weapons.
Railguns, Missiles, flame, and solid slug weaponry are NOT used by the Tau in large numbers. The Tau had to ditch their Pulse Rifles to pick up Kroot Rifles, that pretty much tells me all I need to know.

Firstly, you can't evolve to counter energy weapons. Plasma, ion, EMP, fusion and neutron tech work completely differently and kill in completely different ways. To counter them, you need to evolve to counter all kinds of thermal, electrical, kinetic etc energy as well as all forms of radiation to counter "energy weapons". You'd have to be almost indestructible.
Secondly, missiles are used in large numbers (seeker missiles and SMS mounted on most vehicles-Skyrays, Hammerheads, Barricudas, Tiger sharks etc- as well as the missile pods mounted on many Crisis suits), as are Railguns (all known vehicles apart from Pirahnas, Skyrays and Barricudas can and usually do use them, as do Broadsides obviously), and flamers are commonly used on XV8s.
Edit: And solid slug weapons are used in large numbers. Most of their allied races and their Railguns utilise solid slugs.

If they can't be compared, then why were you comparing them? By that logic this whole arguement is pointless.

You're right. It is. Maybe it's time people realize, however, that Tau are NOT the dominant technological race in the universe. They are, however as it's been said time and time again in the Tau Codex, advancing at a remarkable pace. It's the whole basis behind the Tau--they're advancing far faster than they should be, and there's no explanation as to why that can be offered by the Imperium's observers or even the Eldar's observers.

I know.

The thread title is "Tau Technology" and nomotog was talking about how the Tau advance their tech while the IoM doesn't. I think you can excuse me for thinking you were talking about technology.

And if you'd read the post I was replying to, you'd understand why it wasn't about "a technological disadvantage".

The Tau don't utilize boltguns or Leman Russes because they don't use the same approach to warfare that the Imperium uses. They don't sheath their shock troops, who deploy via Drop Pods, in layers of ceramite armor and give them Boltgun equivalents.

The Tau utilize their shock troops(the Crisis variants) to exploit or create openings in static defensive lines to ensure that the following attacks are not going to break against the threats the Crisis Suits encountered.

Gorgon is a poor example to use.

The hive fleet adapted to everything thrown at it. Saying a bolter would of worked is wrong. It adapted to everything...

In a single battle they swapped weapons out from some fallen kroot that temporarily worked, but even then, having to switch out ammo types suggests that solid shot slugs grew to be worthless too. About the only weaponry that would of stood a chance and actually did was Necron.

Brother Coa wrote:

TrollPie wrote: I have no idea what SG-1.

You never heard about StarGate?

StarGate? Oh, right. I've heard of it, but I've never seen it (unless you count Kurt Russel being raped by Christmas critters).

TrollPie wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

TrollPie wrote: I have no idea what SG-1.

You never heard about StarGate?

StarGate? Oh, right. I've heard of it, but I've never seen it (unless you count Kurt Russel being raped by Christmas critters).

I remember that one , poor guy...
Anyway you should saw it, one of the best Sci-Fi series out there...

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Gorgon is a poor example to use.

The hive fleet adapted to everything thrown at it. Saying a bolter would of worked is wrong. It adapted to everything...

In a single battle they swapped weapons out from some fallen kroot that temporarily worked, but even then, having to switch out ammo types suggests that solid shot slugs grew to be worthless too. About the only weaponry that would of stood a chance and actually did was Necron.

Remember how the Imperial Guard that fought 'alongside' the Tau had success?

I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because they "swapped out ammo types", since they commonly aren't given variable shells for Autocannons/Heavy Bolters.

Kanluwen wrote:
Remember how the Imperial Guard that fought 'alongside' the Tau had success?

I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because they "swapped out ammo types", since they commonly aren't given variable shells for Autocannons/Heavy Bolters.

Thank the Emperor for Lasguns

It seems as though he Tau have a large versitality of weaponry, but all of it is in the beginning stages of development, kind of. How would it be if the Tau numbers matched that of the Imperium of Man? Would there be a co-existence, or (which seems much more likely) would there be all out war between the two? Who would win, based on technology as of now?

Brother Coa wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Remember how the Imperial Guard that fought 'alongside' the Tau had success?

I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because they "swapped out ammo types", since they commonly aren't given variable shells for Autocannons/Heavy Bolters.

Thank the Emperor for Lasguns

Laser would have been nerfed just as badly as plasma. In fact, the shiny sheen would have deflected the bolts altogether, the heat resistance wouldn't have been needed.

TrollPie wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Remember how the Imperial Guard that fought 'alongside' the Tau had success?

I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because they "swapped out ammo types", since they commonly aren't given variable shells for Autocannons/Heavy Bolters.

Thank the Emperor for Lasguns

Laser would have been nerfed just as badly as plasma. In fact, the shiny sheen would have deflected the bolts altogether, the heat resistance wouldn't have been needed.

Exactly, which is why the piece in question kind of hints at the Heavy Weapons that the Guard had with them as being the thing that 'turned the tide'.

What about the Tau heavy weapons though, namely the Broadsides and Hammerheads that carry railguns with solid rounds?

K262 wrote:What about the Tau heavy weapons though, namely the Broadsides and Hammerheads that carry railguns with solid rounds?

What good do they do against huge hordes of critters? Railgun rounds can penetrate, but they lose power as they do.

Only the Hammerheads carried munition rounds, which would be able to put a stop to the huge hordes of smaller critters--and that's them not firing on the large critters or firing a round that might rip through the heavier creatures.

Plus, for all we know, the force in question had no Hammerheads or Broadsides.

Kanluwen wrote:

TrollPie wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Remember how the Imperial Guard that fought 'alongside' the Tau had success?

I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because they "swapped out ammo types", since they commonly aren't given variable shells for Autocannons/Heavy Bolters.

Thank the Emperor for Lasguns

Laser would have been nerfed just as badly as plasma. In fact, the shiny sheen would have deflected the bolts altogether, the heat resistance wouldn't have been needed.

Exactly, which is why the piece in question kind of hints at the Heavy Weapons that the Guard had with them as being the thing that 'turned the tide'.

So you shouldn't thank the Emporer for lasguns

Okay, in the Tau Codex, it clearly states that the mechanicus have higher tech than the tau, but the tau are catching up with them at an advanced rate. At times, it even surpasses imperial tech, but NOT ALWAYS. I've been playing tau and reading the codex long enough to know that the tau may not be the most advanced , but they one day may be. As of now, the imperium is barely ahead of them, but don't understand much of their own work.

Kanluwen wrote:

K262 wrote:What about the Tau heavy weapons though, namely the Broadsides and Hammerheads that carry railguns with solid rounds?

What good do they do against huge hordes of critters? Railgun rounds can penetrate, but they lose power as they do.

Only the Hammerheads carried munition rounds, which would be able to put a stop to the huge hordes of smaller critters--and that's them not firing on the large critters or firing a round that might rip through the heavier creatures.

Plus, for all we know, the force in question had no Hammerheads or Broadsides.

Railguns lose power as they penetrate, but the massive amount of power they start with means you can point and shoot and it'll tear a line straight through the horde several hundred metres long.
Also I highly doubt that they had no HHs or Broadsides. They're almost always present at large engagements.
Plus the Kroot weapons and ion weapons and flamers and missiles that would be there would still be effective. However, if you become resistant to Pulse weaponry then you've knocked out all their suppressive fire and prevented them from performing one of the most important roles in a battle..

The Imperial guard and the Tau faught against the Tyranids, correct? I was saying that the Broadsides would have the stopping power for t


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*stopping power for taking down the larger creatures, and the Skyray would have missle barrages against the smaller.

Kanluwen wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Gorgon is a poor example to use.

The hive fleet adapted to everything thrown at it. Saying a bolter would of worked is wrong. It adapted to everything...

In a single battle they swapped weapons out from some fallen kroot that temporarily worked, but even then, having to switch out ammo types suggests that solid shot slugs grew to be worthless too. About the only weaponry that would of stood a chance and actually did was Necron.

Remember how the Imperial Guard that fought 'alongside' the Tau had success?

I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because they "swapped out ammo types", since they commonly aren't given variable shells for Autocannons/Heavy Bolters.

The Tau weapons worked awesome the first time they used them too.

Had the IG fought Gorgon for about a month they would of been fixing bayonets by about week 2.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Had the IG fought Gorgon for about a month they would of been fixing bayonets by about week 2.

Interesting that you bring up a technology that they Tau have no mastery of...

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Gorgon is a poor example to use.

The hive fleet adapted to everything thrown at it. Saying a bolter would of worked is wrong. It adapted to everything...

In a single battle they swapped weapons out from some fallen kroot that temporarily worked, but even then, having to switch out ammo types suggests that solid shot slugs grew to be worthless too. About the only weaponry that would of stood a chance and actually did was Necron.

Remember how the Imperial Guard that fought 'alongside' the Tau had success?

I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because they "swapped out ammo types", since they commonly aren't given variable shells for Autocannons/Heavy Bolters.

The Tau weapons worked awesome the first time they used them too.

The Pulse Rifles worked "awesome" for about half a month. Then the Tyranids evolved a resistance to them.

Had the IG fought Gorgon for about a month they would of been fixing bayonets by about week 2.

You're right, because they would have ran out of solid rounds. The Tyranids have yet to evolve a bulletproof vest that repels Heavy Bolter and Autocannon rounds.

killykavekommando wrote:Okay, in the Tau Codex, it clearly states that the mechanicus have higher tech than the tau, but the tau are catching up with them at an advanced rate. At times, it even surpasses imperial tech, but NOT ALWAYS. I've been playing tau and reading the codex long enough to know that the tau may not be the most advanced , but they one day may be. As of now, the imperium is barely ahead of them, but don't understand much of their own work.

The comical entry also cites part of their inferiority in being that they lack the praise to a fake machine spirit. The AdMech entry is in the context of comedy, much like an Guardsmens primer it isn't meant to be a super factual article.

It states that Tau weaponry meets and exceeds Imperial standards but blames it on heresy.

I'd say its safe to say that the AdMech while in possession of a few decent pieces of machinery isn't on par with Tau R & D.





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Kanluwen wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Gorgon is a poor example to use.

The hive fleet adapted to everything thrown at it. Saying a bolter would of worked is wrong. It adapted to everything...

In a single battle they swapped weapons out from some fallen kroot that temporarily worked, but even then, having to switch out ammo types suggests that solid shot slugs grew to be worthless too. About the only weaponry that would of stood a chance and actually did was Necron.

Remember how the Imperial Guard that fought 'alongside' the Tau had success?

I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because they "swapped out ammo types", since they commonly aren't given variable shells for Autocannons/Heavy Bolters.

The Tau weapons worked awesome the first time they used them too.

The Pulse Rifles worked "awesome" for about half a month. Then the Tyranids evolved a resistance to them.

Had the IG fought Gorgon for about a month they would of been fixing bayonets by about week 2.

You're right, because they would have ran out of solid rounds. The Tyranids have yet to evolve a bulletproof vest that repels Heavy Bolter and Autocannon rounds.[u]

They did, apart from Battlesuit sensors, they were invisible for a while too. Which is a great way to not get shot.

Kroot Rifles only worked because Pulse Rifles are what had been adapted too. What suggests that Gorgon wouldn't of evolved protection against a solid slug? Assuming that they hadn't already from Broadsides, Seeker Missiles and Smart Missile Systems?

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

killykavekommando wrote:Okay, in the Tau Codex, it clearly states that the mechanicus have higher tech than the tau, but the tau are catching up with them at an advanced rate. At times, it even surpasses imperial tech, but NOT ALWAYS. I've been playing tau and reading the codex long enough to know that the tau may not be the most advanced , but they one day may be. As of now, the imperium is barely ahead of them, but don't understand much of their own work.

The comical entry also cites part of their inferiority in being that they lack the praise to a fake machine spirit. The AdMech entry is in the context of comedy, much like an Guardsmens primer it isn't meant to be a super factual article.

It states that Tau weaponry meets and exceeds Imperial standards but blames it on heresy.

I'd say its safe to say that the AdMech while in possession of a few decent pieces of machinery isn't on par with Tau R & D.






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Kanluwen wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Gorgon is a poor example to use.

The hive fleet adapted to everything thrown at it. Saying a bolter would of worked is wrong. It adapted to everything...

In a single battle they swapped weapons out from some fallen kroot that temporarily worked, but even then, having to switch out ammo types suggests that solid shot slugs grew to be worthless too. About the only weaponry that would of stood a chance and actually did was Necron.

Remember how the Imperial Guard that fought 'alongside' the Tau had success?

I can pretty much guarantee you it wasn't because they "swapped out ammo types", since they commonly aren't given variable shells for Autocannons/Heavy Bolters.

The Tau weapons worked awesome the first time they used them too.

The Pulse Rifles worked "awesome" for about half a month. Then the Tyranids evolved a resistance to them.

Had the IG fought Gorgon for about a month they would of been fixing bayonets by about week 2.

You're right, because they would have ran out of solid rounds. The Tyranids have yet to evolve a bulletproof vest that repels Heavy Bolter and Autocannon rounds.[u]

They did, apart from Battlesuit sensors, they were invisible for a while too. Which is a great way to not get shot.

Kroot Rifles only worked because Pulse Rifles are what had been adapted too. What suggests that Gorgon wouldn't of evolved protection against a solid slug? Assuming that they hadn't already from Broadsides, Seeker Missiles and Smart Missile Systems?

Honestly if it says it in your own codex I don't know why your arguing, somebody put the actual quote up as I don't have a Tau dex then we can settle this. Mechanicus have vortex missile and grenades, computers with almost infinite data storage, augmentations that let their members live for hundreds of years compared to a Tau's 40, and a better FTL than the Tau. the machine spirit isn't fake it's a semi AI created because they have a bad history with full AI, IOM tech such as land raiders have shown personality in quite a few pieces of fluff.

If Tyranids can apparently rapidly evolve so easily to deflect pulse rounds, why haven't they evolved to resist or repell bolter rounds? It seems like somewhat of a plot hole...

K262 wrote:If Tyranids can apparently rapidly evolve so easily to deflect pulse rounds, why haven't they evolved to resist or repel bolter rounds? It seems like somewhat of a plot hole...

Because it wasn't evolving to "deflect" pulse rounds. It was evolving to mitigate them.

I went back and reread it, but they essentially developed a pocket of a 'gel' underneath the carapace that mitigated the heat of the pulse round impact and the radiation accompanying it.

You can't really evolve to resist a kinetic round being shot at you and taking a hole out of your body, at least beyond evolving armor.

Someone should mention that the tau didn't build all of their tech. They reverse engineered their warp drive (porly). and they where gifted the ion cannon (that they then made in miniature).

nomotog wrote:Someone should mention that the tau didn't build all of their tech. They reverse engineered their warp drive (poorly). and they where gifted the ion cannon (that they then made in miniature).

We don't actually know that they were gifted the Ion Cannon technology and they miniaturized it. The Demiurg might have given them all of it barring the Cyclic Ion thingamajigger.

But, they are capable of such feats as reverse engineering complicated machinery. So, would they not have the capability of creating their own using gleaned knowledge as well improving existing systems. How quickly did reverse engineer it (according to the lore if it states that)?