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Some interesting views.

I suppose I look at it in the way a sports person would be label'd a pro. A golfer is not only someone who makes money from it but also has a level of skill in his chosen field. So I do not agree with the mind frame of I make money thus I am pro, the skill level still needs to be reached in my views. Maybe not eavy metal standard but still of quality. This appears to be abused by ebay, making it harder to find the real quality work within a search on the site.

So then, expanding the topic slightly, what would you agree is a true use of the term 'Pro' Basic block colours? some mild detail?, heavy detail?, layers washing and blending all on a scenic base?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... you cant define what's "pro" but we all know it when we see it. E-bay is awful for lies thogh, not just wuth this but with everything that might have some "beyond retail" value. The terms "classic" "original" or "vintage" can be observed to have some pretty mercenary use on that site too...

I guess if i had to try and define "pro" i might say: good depth of colour from recesses throgh to highlights, all details embellished with colour and tone and a consistent and appropriately themed base-scheme.

you could still tick all those boxes and only be average though.

AS soon as you buy a painted model of theirs (or as soon as anyone has) they become 'pro' technically.
But the standard of painting, is what they are referring to, rather than professional status, which is defined more as being a job (in this case, selling miniatures).
Its really up to you to decide. I have seen models on ebay for £80 (A Skulltaker i saw once, was like £80+ and it was good, but not worth that much) In my eyes i see it as a pointless exercise buying really well painted models, as you can't be proud of them. If you painted that then you get a sense of achievement, can enter in in painting competitions etc. Buying someone elses work, and then getting complimented on it seems a waste.

Some people just like to have really well painted models and lack the skill to do it themselves.

I always read 'pro-painted' as someone who paints 'for a living'.... not someone who makes a little bit of cash from time to time selling tabletop+ jobs.

professionally painted = i'd expect at least a 9 rating on dakka gallery with over 200 votes. Someone able to be a finalist at crystal brush or Golden Daemon.

Table Top = clean 3 min colour some shadow (wash) some highlights. Sorted. Nothing fancy but honest and good.

deejaybainbridge wrote:This got me thinking what makes a painter or model pro-painted?

You are a professional if you make money doing something.

A pro painter is someone who makes money painting. Skill of the paint job is irrelevant as long as you make money.

You don't have to paint the mona lisa to be a pro painter. You can be a pro painter who paints soup cans.

I understand the confusion people have when dealing with the word pro. Being a pro is subjective.

As I stated before, if you do something for money, you may be doing it professionally, but "being a professional" has a different meaning. Professions usually have competency standards (exams, licenses, etc.) and a mechanism for maintaining those standards.

It's a technical argument, but it's one (of many) reasons Lawyers and Doctors are considered professionals, while web designers are not.

I do commission painting...but only to TT standard.

Most people arent willing to pay for the effort to paint higher.

From here on in, how about each post must include at least one link to a "pro-painted" ebay item?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WH-40K-CHAOS-SPACE-MARINE-TERMINATORS-PRO-PAINTED-/160627147906?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25661fc482

i dont understand why you wouldnt paint your stuff yourself anyway

My clients generally fall into one of four camps: those who are cash-rich/time-poor who prefer to spend their little hobby time playing the game; those who enjoy painting, but like to lavish their attention on a handful of heroes rather than on dozens of near-identical rank-and-file; those who want a beautifully painted miniature but don't have the skills to create one, and those who need an army painted right now and ready by the end of next week!!!!.

There's also a fifth category that can be any of the above, but where the common theme is a spouse who isn't prepared to see two thousan bits of potentially-edible plastic scattered around the house in easy reach of small children or where bare feet may discover a hitherto-thought-lost sword with a yelp of pain.

I'd dispute that one has to have a Golden Demon or equivalent to be a professional. I don't. I'm far too busy painting armies for clients (in order to keep food on the table) to take time out to spend three months working on a single project that will make me no money whatsoever.

I once saw a Golden Demon winning model sell for $2000, which is impressive, but it represented almost 1000 hours of work, which I call a poor return on one's investment. I'd rather punch out a £1000-worth of gaming miniatures in four weeks and be able to pay my mortgage.

R.

Same as "rare item" for OOP models, the term is so over used it is rendered meaningless.

cyrax777 wrote:
My favorite is "draft beer" and it is in a can.

Most of the "pro painted" on ebay is essentially its painted so pay me more money. So pro in the essence of you are paying for the paint job.

My favourite is what is "draft" beer you ridiculous Americans.

Ah, Ebay...where truth is as maliable as a soul in the hands of Tzeentch.

Where one person has individual RT Era Techmarines for a "Buy it Now" price of £7.00 each and another has a lot of three on an auction starting at 99p!

One seller has "Pro Painted" minis that are akin to divine brushwork and another has some stuff that seems to have been painted via the inhalation of paint and the expelling of the same through a nostril and onto the minis in question.

The swap shop and trading sites aren't immune to the scourge of "pro painted" either. I've seen a few doosies over there too that were "pro painted" including a space hulk set that wasn't even basecoated (the guy used the red plastic as his base Blood Angel color) with just 3 colors added and no washes/highlights. While he did make an effort and stayed between the lines with his paint, the models lacked a primary coat which made them look very plasticy and he didn't even use any intermediate painting techniques that would justifiably classify it as looking pro painted. Another more blatant example of not-but-called-anyways-pro painted (edited due to ridicule after posting to just "practically pro"):



I don't think there is any justification in classifying these as such. Basically, if you're buying something painted specifically because its painted a certain way, ask for a clear detailed picture. If you're going to strip it regardless and just want the basic model then it doesn't matter too much. People may have vastly different standards for good/well/pro painted (or may be simply lying in the hopes of duping a gullible buyer). My recommendation is that you don't use the phrase unless you're a well-known and liked artist; if you're not, simply provide a quality pic with lighting and call it painted.

precinctomega wrote:

i dont understand why you wouldnt paint your stuff yourself anyway

My clients generally fall into one of four camps: those who are cash-rich/time-poor who prefer to spend their little hobby time playing the game; those who enjoy painting, but like to lavish their attention on a handful of heroes rather than on dozens of near-identical rank-and-file; those who want a beautifully painted miniature but don't have the skills to create one, and those who need an army painted right now and ready by the end of next week!!!!.

I've bought painted figures at wargames shows and a couple off eBay and decided that the person had done quite a nice job and that it wasn't worth the effort to paint them again.

I wouldn't pay someone to paint my figures, but I'm not against buying painted things and leaving them as they are.

I think there are some good points being raised. Being paid to perform a task doesn't mean that you're better than somebody else, just that it makes more economic sense to pay you than for them to do it themselves.

I'm not a great legal writer, but I've got a job where my goal isn't quality as much as quantity. I can put out more "good enough" than nearly anybody else in the office.

Painting is the same way. If you can paint quickly, you can always make money off it.

Polonius wrote:...Painting is the same way. If you can paint quickly, you can always make money off it.

Well said I use to do that too, and now that I have a better proportion of time to money sometimes I pay friends to do basic work for me even, which I never thought I would ever do...

AvatarForm wrote:I do commission painting...but only to TT standard.

Most people arent willing to pay for the effort to paint higher.

From here on in, how about each post must include at least one link to a "pro-painted" ebay item?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WH-40K-CHAOS-SPACE-MARINE-TERMINATORS-PRO-PAINTED-/160627147906?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25661fc482

Auction has ended on that item :(
But have a look at one of the recommended auctions!
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/40K-Chaos-Space-Marines-Squad-well-painted-/260800149938?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BPSSI%252BSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BUCK%252BRTU%26otn%3D20%26pmod%3D160627147906%252B160627147906%26po%3D%26ps%3D63&_qi=RTM636418

Looks perfectly well painted to me. Bases are a bit rubbish, but the rest seems fine, even in the photos are a bit pants. AU$50 might be a little optimistic, though.

Like I said, I occasionally sell surplus stuff on eBay and I nearly always start it at 99p. It I want to sell something, that means I want it out of my office, stat. High price. Low price. I really don't care.

R.

Please note that while we have no problem with people discussing the use and misuse of the 'pro-painted' tag, we do draw the line at posting other people work for the purpose of pointing and snickering. It's rude and unnecessary.

Pro Painted means desperation to sell.
I don't even look at them if they have that tag.

E bay is bad with it, but just because you get paid to paint doesn't make it pro-painted.

If you were named, or had references like Ally McVey? Yes. Joe shmuck? No, you might have a good paintjob, but your just a good painter. No one special.