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Yeah i know that.But i just lettin hom know there a good invesment...just giving him a heads up.

K. I wouldnt have created the post if I didnt know the potential for termies. Lol. So, it seems as if Deathwing is the way to go. Any build suggestions? Tactics? Pretty much, Ive NEVER used space marines and the only thing close to humans Ive used is guard

Just an extra thought on BT termis. You can have a marshal making all termis ld 10 as long as he is alive. He also can take termi armor and he can be an eternal warrior with his own claws. If you want to mix squad styles you can give him and a chaplain th/ss in a squad of shooty termis (command squad). In short you can do everything that DA can do short of making them troops. But as was said before you can field the same number of termis and still have prefered enemy and some other marines (10 total marines) Yes they can deep strike but can also move due to righteous zeal. Another fun trick is to give the marshal or chaplain an auspex allowing the shooty cmd squad termis the ability to shoot nearby infiltrators. Just some more thoughts for you to consider. As compared to C:SM why have master crafted when you have prefered enemy and to DA why run them as troops but smaller squads and you can have the same number of termis and have so basic marines.
If fluff comes down to it the DA did attack the BT over a fallen (speculation but strongly hinted at!)

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Im looking at starting a new army, or at least meta starting. I love Terminators but have never played space marines or CSM... only daemons, IG, and Sob. I've heard that you can build an entire army of just Terminators... What army do you, the dakkanaughts, think has the best available Terminators, and why?

You can't have the entire army of terminators, it would not be balanced.

As for best Terminators. Dark Angels Deathwing are one of the most legendary one. As well as Grey Knight Terminators.

I've been playing deathwing for around a month now and the only thing that's really surprised me so far is how inefficient pure deathwing is.
By inefficient I mean the complete utter lack of mobility except for a risky deep strike. Just in my last game I lost belial and his FnP banner squad for a total of ~400 points in one go.
Deathwing is not playing quite like I imagined, the whole BAM terminators DS in, relentless shooting then relentless assault. It's more like BAM DS in, pray to the dice gods you don't mishap, then spend the rest of the game shooting while mostly doing countercharges aka let one squad be charged, lose 2-3 terminators then charge in with another squad and wipe enemy out.
I'm currently in the process of including some ravenwing bikes for some nice 12" bubbles of safe deepstrike.
Again, this is something that won't seem so bad until a few games in and you lose a game because of a single mishap.

Regardless of which terminator army you choose, you should read up their rules to see the pro's and cons.
One such con that every terminator army has is the "tax" character you must get in order to make terminator troops. Dark angels do NOT get around this at all. No matter which army you choose, there will be some stupid IC you have to take that's either 200+ points or useless and just there for the rule.

Oh and another thing thats real important is, do you want a terminator centric army or a pure terminator army?

For example, if you don't mind non-troop terminators and having a few tactical squads to sit back and hold objectives or scouts to outflank, you could easily run black templars, space marines or grey knights. Because they can have 10 man per squad with combat squad option, the amount of terminators they can take is roughly the same as deathwing as deathwing terminators are 5/FOC, these guys are 10/FOC.

Beyond that its just simple pros and cons. Some off the top of my head are: (Please correct me if and where I'm wrong)
Black Templars - Are able to drop pod terminators, Preferred enemy, Furious charge
Dark Angels - Can do pure terminator army, Cheap thunderhammer/ss, only 2 default wargear options
Grey Knights - Can do pure terminator army, Gets to use paladins as troops iirc,
Space Marines - Cheap thunderhammer/SS, only 2 default wargear options, have special characters that directly buff terminators (fleet or MC thunderhammers)
Space Wolves - Can do pure terminator army, Are able to drop pod terminators, at least one squad can be scoring

I know nothing of blood angels because. So I won't write anything about them. Also, it's not like they're supposed to be a terminator heavy army anyway despite being the army chosen for space hulk.

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Now that all that's done and said, I must say, playing with a deathwing army is INCREDIBLE. The sheer amount of pressure you put on your opponent is palpable especially if they're also marines or some equally elite army. Just the sight of 20-30 terminators on the board gets them nervous and they avoid close combat with their power weapons like [insert witty metaphor].

On the other hand, if you run into a hoard army like IG, orks or tyranids that also happens to be fielding multiple large units, you may as well forfeit the game
It's funny for me since I'm the only ork player at my local store and I know for a fact that my deathwing will never be able to beat my own orks. A single squad of deathwing terminators nab me ~36 boyz.

Although there are three armies capable of fielding terminators as troops (GK, DA, and SW) in my opinion GK is the only one that can actually pull off a competitive "pure" terminator list, with every model in the army being in terminator armor.

They achieve this by taking 40-50 (depending on 2k or 2.5k points) troop terminators and a few psycannon inquisitors. The whole army just moves forward and shoots things within 24". Sure, they only have 5+ saves, but most armies don't have enough AP2 to kill 40+ terminators, and are going to have to rely of forcing armor saves anyway. Plus, you can get cover a lot of times.

SW have to take Logan to get their wolf guard to be troops, who can become terminators for a total of 33 points (18+15). This is a great deal, but when you see that TH and SS are each 15 points, it becomes clear that you cannot make all of your terminators have SS without spending way too many points. So, you probably only want 1-2 shields per 5 man, with the rest of the unit being either regular termies or simply power armor wolf guard to act as wound counters for the termies. Consider that for 165 points you can get 5 wolfguard with 1 SS termy, and 1 cyclone termy. If you wanted, you could give the 2 other guys combi-meltas for 10 more points. For 225 you can take 5 termies with 1 cyclone and 1 shield (or make it 240 for a Chain fist as well) These are both pretty good deals, and once you take 6 groups, you're at about 1265-1625 with logan, depending on how you kitted the squads out. I would probably use the rest of the points to buy 3x5 missile long fangs, and if you got the cheap WG, maybe some TWC or speeders as well. Lone wolves and scouts are not really a bad idea either.

DA are nice because they can take 5 terminators and kit them out pretty much anyway they want to, for a very low price. The combination of having TH/SS and cyclone missiles is a powerful one, but i feel that it causes players to fall into the trap of feilding ALL TH/SS terminators with cyclone, and not leaving any of the stormbolters. Assuming you are taking 6 squads, i would probably take 2 with all TH/SS and a cyclone, and 4 with 1 TH/SS and 4 with fist/stormbolters, as this lets you handle hordes a lot better than before. Since most things can't bypass the 2+ armor anyway, the 1 SS is usually enough to keep the squad save from single long range lascannon shots while the 2 CC squads beat down any really scary enemy units, while the other 4 squads sit back a little shooting at things and killing things without power weapons. The only think that you could really be scared of without SS are AP1-2 templates (russes, vindicators), which you make sure to care of with meltaguns. What meltaguns, you ask? well, the ones on the bikes and speeders! At 1500 you can take 3 Milti-melta speeders and 5 groups of terminators. at 2000 you can take 6 terminator groups, 6 bikes with 4 meltas, 2 attack bikes with MMs, and 1 MM speeder. These units suicide into the most dangerous of the enemy vehicles (russes, land raiders, preds and vindicators) and anything else the terminators are afraid of before dying (they probably will die, but you've just crippled their army). The bikes all have scout and locator beacons, and will be in melta range with 3+ invuls on turn 1 of most enemy units, and make it possible to drop the terminators (but only if you want to. Just walking them across the board works very well too most of the time) very close to the enemy with no scatter.

In general i think DA is my favorite of the three terminator armies, as the combination of TH/SS terminators and stormbolter/First terminators can handle hordes, enemy CC units, light vehicles and most everything else, their only weakness being high AV, which is easily countered by 5 fast melta units that are almost guaranteed to get into melta range and blow something up, but the other 2 armies both have their own strengths and weaknesses as well.

Hahaha no stormbolters.. yep that's me.
I'm still on the edge of wether or not 5TH/SS + CML is a good idea.
In many cases, the 5TH/SS really shines when your opponent wittles you down to 2-3 models and THEN dump lascannon fire into the squad. If you didn't have all 5 equipped with TH/SS you'd be taking 5++ instead of 3++.

I'm also displeased by how crappy 5TH/SS is in close combat but then having a few lightning claws isn't suddenly going to khornify them.

Now whats this TH/SS with stormbolter combo you speak of? Sounds very interesting... Would also give me the ability to field a chainfist. Had someone deploy a land raider against my pure TH/SS+CML deathwing list the other day. Man, that thing rolled all over me.

I'm usually a huge fan of bolters but the idea of having to give up TH/SS for it is a turnoff. Also the fact that I could've replaced it with a DLC is also being a deterrent for me.

I'd say Deathwing easily. Units of 5 TH/SS with a CML, and Fearless, for less than 250? Hell yeah.

I think the general consensus is Deathwing!

My $0.02 on DW builds:

Belial
TDA Libby or Chappy
Deathwing Terminator Squads
Venerable Dreadnoughts
Land Raiders and LR Crusaders.

There are two primary ways to run DW: mech and foot.

Mech list example (1500pts):
Belial
Terminator Chappy (Preferred imho) or Libby
3xDeathwing Squads- the two landraider squads get TH/SS and Lightening Claws mix, the unmounted squad gets all TH/SS+CML
2xLRs / LRCs
extra upgrades as you can fit them
Have the unmounted squad Deepstrike in on an objective and blast away. The LRs blast away until the proper moment for the squads to assault out.


Foot list:
The benefit with foot is you can get more termies on the board. People disagree with the loadout of the DW squads in a foot list. The classic was primarily stormbolter squads kitted out for wound allocation benefits. With the FAQ'd storm shields, people did the same, but included one TH/SS termy to catch AP2 wounds. Whittle the enemy down with bolters while keeping them at range and then assault at the opportune moment.

Now many argue that all TH/SS+CML is the only way to go with walkers. Simply walk up the field, blast away with the CMLs and then bonk the enemy on the head with the hammers. You can DWA, too, of course.

IMHO VenDreads are only viable in a walking list. In a mech list their lower AV attracts a lot of fire, as it provides a viable target for all missile launchers and the like which wouldn't have as good as a chance against the AV14 LRs. In a walking list, you can take more which will increase their survivability a bit. IMO their best use is MM, flamer and Drop pod. Have them deepstrike and take out armor, tarpit, etc. Just remember DA do not have the Drop Pod Assault rule, so always take enough VenDreads to make sure you will get some early.

If you open up to including other elements of the codex, the bad news is you lose the bada**, fluffy Deathwing status. However, Doublewing (Deathwing and Ravenwing combined) can provide some more competitive opportunities. Particularly, squads of speeders with MMs are extremely cheap and effective. In general, most Doublewing lists have Ravenwing fill out an anti-armor role, allowing the Deathwing elements to cover other bases.

The bottom line: Pure Deathwing is very, very cool imo. It can be difficult to win with, however.

jcd386 wrote:DA are nice because they can take 5 terminators and kit them out pretty much anyway they want to, for a very low price. The combination of having TH/SS and cyclone missiles is a powerful one, but i feel that it causes players to fall into the trap of feilding ALL TH/SS terminators with cyclone, and not leaving any of the stormbolters. Assuming you are taking 6 squads, i would probably take 2 with all TH/SS and a cyclone, and 4 with 1 TH/SS and 4 with fist/stormbolters, as this lets you handle hordes a lot better than before. Since most things can't bypass the 2+ armor anyway, the 1 SS is usually enough to keep the squad save from single long range lascannon shots while the 2 CC squads beat down any really scary enemy units, while the other 4 squads sit back a little shooting at things and killing things without power weapons. The only think that you could really be scared of without SS are AP1-2 templates (russes, vindicators), which you make sure to care of with meltaguns. What meltaguns, you ask? well, the ones on the bikes and speeders! At 1500 you can take 3 Milti-melta speeders and 5 groups of terminators. at 2000 you can take 6 terminator groups, 6 bikes with 4 meltas, 2 attack bikes with MMs, and 1 MM speeder. These units suicide into the most dangerous of the enemy vehicles (russes, land raiders, preds and vindicators) and anything else the terminators are afraid of before dying (they probably will die, but you've just crippled their army). The bikes all have scout and locator beacons, and will be in melta range with 3+ invuls on turn 1 of most enemy units, and make it possible to drop the terminators (but only if you want to. Just walking them across the board works very well too most of the time) very close to the enemy with no scatter.

Great advice, seems solid. Very well balanced too. I wanted to inlcude speeders to take out mechs like raiders and such. This sounds perfect.... now.... where to find 50 termies.... lol

Don't buy AOBR terminators thinking that you'll be able to easily convert them to ass termies by buying TH/SS for cheap on ebay. Because that's totally not what I did and totally not pissing the heck out of me right now because TH/SS are totally not super rare or going for 20-25$ on ebay for 5.

Whilst I agree that the Deathwing have the best 'terminator' army, I wouldn't necessarily say that a 'pure' DW terminator army is. I think you do have to throw in a few elements from the Ravenwing too, as many here have said. A 'pure' GK terminator army is, perhaps, the best because they are so flexible.

I must also add that a Grey Knight Terminator army is the only one that you can field without having to take a HQ choice to unlock them as troops. This means that you get to choose any combination of HQ choices from the codex that you wish which is a godsend - trust me, it makes a really big difference. GK terminators are very different from any other because their weapons are all very unique to their codex except for the storm bolters. Basically, they are far more flexible and are better in CC than their regular Terminator counterparts in terms of offense but you have to sacrifice speed of attack for extra defense if you want a 4+ invul and vice versa. And of course, the 4+ invul isn't as good as the 3+ invul from a storm shield. GK terminators can also take psybolt ammo which in a big squad can make a big difference rolling to wound.

The GK HQ choices can also add to the terminators effectiveness with a GM giving grand strategy (re-rolling wounds of 1 for example) and providing servo skulls for deep strike. They can also take rad grenades to give -1 to your opponents toughness - stick them in with a termie squad and you're wounding much more easily. GK terminators are also included in one of only two codices that allow them to take Storm Ravens as transports (although not dedicated) which you can assault out of giving a different option to the Land Raider. You can also put them in Chimeras which the GK codex has access to as well. GK terminators are psykers and can use Hammerhand so can take their strength up to 10 with daemonhammers. All GK also have force weapons so are better equipped to take on multi wound models. So anything like nobs are (almost) as easy to take on as regular one wound models. Remember - they do have thunderhammers, they're just called something else and they are better than the regular ones due to them being force weapons and the fact that you add the +1 from hammerhand to your base strength before you get the double strength bonus of the hammer. On top of all this, you can run them as paladins which are simply a level up from terminators but do require Draigo to unlock them as tropps - check out their rules.

I'd still say that Deathwing are the best overall because of the combination of TH/SS with cyclones and their relative ease of use but GK terminators are capable of far more and are far more flexible but they require a lot more thought to use and can get killed quicker outside of CC. Where Deathwing can comfortably walk in from 24+ inches away, GK Terminators are a lot more vulnerable from that distance because their weapons can't shoot further and lack a 3+ invul save. Deathwing are more point and click but the GK ones can be very complex - I'm no 40K expert but take a look around the web, there's no defined way to roll them and opinions differ wildly so I think it all depends; are you looking for a force that you can plonk down and cause some serious damage with or are you looking for a force that you can deploy and cause even more damage with but have to be more mindful and tactical with? Eventually, I think that a pure GK terminator will be considered the best if you put the work in whereas the Deathwing are just solid, powerful and easier to use. I don't think, however, that a 'pure' terminator army will work for any codex but probably is better with deathwing. But Dark Angels are likely due a new codex sooner rather than later...

terranarc wrote:Don't buy AOBR terminators thinking that you'll be able to easily convert them to ass termies by buying TH/SS for cheap on ebay. Because that's totally not what I did and totally not pissing the heck out of me right now because TH/SS are totally not super rare or going for 20-25$ on ebay for 5.

I sense sarcasm. So I shoulld get the AOBR termies and convert them?

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

terranarc wrote:Don't buy AOBR terminators thinking that you'll be able to easily convert them to ass termies by buying TH/SS for cheap on ebay. Because that's totally not what I did and totally not pissing the heck out of me right now because TH/SS are totally not super rare or going for 20-25$ on ebay for 5.

I sense sarcasm. So I shoulld get the AOBR termies and convert them?

Yes. Do that. It is easy and cheap. Just make the Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields out of stuff you have lying around. I did it, and it took me like five bucks and maybe an hour or so.

Sounds great. AoBR worth it? In general? I mean, I dont need the orks but the SM?

Deathwing hands down

Jimsolo wrote:

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

terranarc wrote:Don't buy AOBR terminators thinking that you'll be able to easily convert them to ass termies by buying TH/SS for cheap on ebay. Because that's totally not what I did and totally not pissing the heck out of me right now because TH/SS are totally not super rare or going for 20-25$ on ebay for 5.

I sense sarcasm. So I shoulld get the AOBR termies and convert them?

Yes. Do that. It is easy and cheap. Just make the Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields out of stuff you have lying around. I did it, and it took me like five bucks and maybe an hour or so.

Pictures please.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

terranarc wrote:Don't buy AOBR terminators thinking that you'll be able to easily convert them to ass termies by buying TH/SS for cheap on ebay. Because that's totally not what I did and totally not pissing the heck out of me right now because TH/SS are totally not super rare or going for 20-25$ on ebay for 5.

I sense sarcasm. So I shoulld get the AOBR termies and convert them?

Basically you'll have to buy shoulder pads and weapons on your own if you do that. The problem is that there are no TH/SS's available on ebay unless you buy from warstore at the moment and warstore is selling it for like ~$6-$7 per. Seriously, go look right now.

In hindsight, the best way for me to have done discount terminators was buy to 5 normal assault terminators and 5 AOBR terminators along with 5 shoulder pads (which are also super rare btw. I'm forced to use GK shoulder pads not that I mind). That way you can give 5 of them DLC and 5 of them thunderhammers with enough aobr arms to be able to field some stormbolters if you wanted (assuming you magnetize the arms).
For the cyclone missile launcher, I'd recommend havok launchers. It's what I'm currently doing and it looks great, no sarcasm.

Sweet, I was going to buy the forgeworld shoulder pads for darkangels anways. The arms I can find, its just the AoBR Termies just some with storm bolters, and from what I heard, its not a bad idea to field some. Am I incorrect?

Deathwing. TH/SS and Cyclone termis are just SCARY.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Sweet, I was going to buy the forgeworld shoulder pads for darkangels anways. The arms I can find, its just the AoBR Termies just some with storm bolters, and from what I heard, its not a bad idea to field some. Am I incorrect?

In pure Deathwing you're going to want some so-called tactical terminators, the bulk of whom will still be carrying their trusty storm bolters. So yeah, the AOBR terminators will fill that component out nicely. Their only real drawback is being a pretty static model due to being pushfit figures.

thats where forgewold Dark Angel shoulder pads and icons come in.. Make em look not so stock.