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Im looking at starting a new army, or at least meta starting. I love Terminators but have never played space marines or CSM... only daemons, IG, and Sob. I've heard that you can build an entire army of just Terminators... What army do you, the dakkanaughts, think has the best available Terminators, and why?

Deathwing. A full squad of TH/ss but with a cyclone missile launcher in there, too. You can also trade out a couple of the TH/SS for lighning claws. Some people chuck in a chainfist. I think that they are better than the SW ones because they cost far less. They also have deathwing assault. And they have a cool colour scheme.

Grey Knight terminators are bettered by their paladin brethren and they really need to be in CC or they are a bit too squishy for terminator standards but they have some excellent weapons options.

Deathwing? Is that Dark Angels?

Yes.

Another vote here for DW. GK have a lot of cool toys but suffer without the 3++ imo.

TH/SS termi's are generally the best termi's, primarily because they are so point+click/forget, you just point them at something and unless they've got a ridiculous amount of firepower or a tarpit, they'll make it to their target and destroy it. They're also grossly undercosted in most books which helps.

a Deathwing DA army wouldn't be bad if you wanted to spam a lot of them as others have said, they can also get shooting options with their TH/SS termi's which helps make them more versatile as well.



GK termi's aren't bad, and Paladins can be excellent as well, but are much more reliant on firepower. Very good termi armies can be made from the GK book.

Terminators as troops is the one thing Dark Angels can do that nobody else can. It's kind of a bummer that you can only have 5 man squads, but they're your only option.

Brother SRM wrote:Terminators as troops is the one thing Dark Angels can do that nobody else can. It's kind of a bummer that you can only have 5 man squads, but they're your only option.

Used to be that way, but Grey Knights can take Terminator Troops as well. They are no longer unique in that regard.

Brother SRM wrote:Terminators as troops is the one thing Dark Angels can do that nobody else can. It's kind of a bummer that you can only have 5 man squads, but they're your only option.

Except for Grey Knights and Space Wolves...

Vaktathi wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Terminators as troops is the one thing Dark Angels can do that nobody else can. It's kind of a bummer that you can only have 5 man squads, but they're your only option.

Except for Grey Knights and Space Wolves...

But DA do it the best

Vaktathi wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Terminators as troops is the one thing Dark Angels can do that nobody else can. It's kind of a bummer that you can only have 5 man squads, but they're your only option.

Except for Grey Knights and Space Wolves...

With Space Wolves, are you taking Logan Grimnar to make Wolf Guard troops, and then kitting them out in terminator armor?

If so, I shudder to think how expensive those units would be, points wise.

Draigo makes Paladins troop choices, remember that!

Can Termis take drop pods? It seems like Deathwing is the way to go. I mean 30 Termis for your troops is just painful.

BT all LC for the win!

I would have to say that BT do termis the best. True they aren't troops, but they can be taken as part of HQs as well as elites. Plust they can have tank hunters with Cyclone Missile Launchers to hunt tanks. Or they can be furious charge assault terminators with LC and TH/SS with prefered enemy so S 5 I 5 reroll to hit and reroll to wound with no armor saves. Even the codex says BT love terminators. Was in a doubles game with termis that wrecked even thunder wolves.

Black Templars. With a mandatory HQ that most people use to give Preferred enemy to all (except neophytes) of your army, followed by being able to give your termies furious charge as well...yeah, they're awesome. I like a mix, in case of big high strength shots that a 5++ probably won't save. Taking termies with BT gives your LC termies re-rolls to hit and wound with power weapons at S5. Um...YES PLEASE?! Deathwing is great too, probably my second favorite version, with TH/SS and a missile launcher on the back of one of them.

So its between Black Templars and Dark Angels then?? How many termies can BT take compared to DA?

xSoulgrinderx wrote:So its between Black Templars and Dark Angels then?? How many termies can BT take compared to DA?

Keep in mind with Black Templars, you are forced to dedicate your terminator squads to either shooting or CC specialists. (TH+SS falling into the CC Specialist category.) With DA, you can freely mix and match. BT Terminators are also not Troops, so if you want to do an all-terminator army, then you can't do BT.

That said, if you compare the base cost of a squad of 5 terminators, BT come in at 200 points, whereas DA is 215. When you add in a CML, the cost is 225 for BT, and 235 for DA.

BT can take up to two CMLs in a squad, with squad sizes from 5-10. So it's possible to spam multiple units of 5 Terminators with 2 CMLs, which is pretty sweet. They just can't take SS's, so their Invulnerable save is 5+. Any special upgrades, such as getting the Furious Charge skill, are 3 points per model. But they are not Fearless.

Other thing to consider: Belial, the DA HQ, allows you to upgrade one Terminator in one squad into being an Apothecary. You can also give one Terminator in one squad a Chapter Banner, which gives everyone in the squad +1 attack. (I'd put both in the same squad and attach Belial, if it were me.) Dark Angel Terminators all have Fearless, can freely mix and match ranged builds with CC specialists, and have the Deathwing Assault rule.

If you were planning on including non-Terminator units, then take a look at Ravenwing. With Sammael, the Ravenwing bike squads are all troops, with the Scout rule and Teleport Homers. They compliment DA Terminators fairly well. But as a DA player, I'm a bit biased.

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Terminators as troops is the one thing Dark Angels can do that nobody else can. It's kind of a bummer that you can only have 5 man squads, but they're your only option.

Except for Grey Knights and Space Wolves...

With Space Wolves, are you taking Logan Grimnar to make Wolf Guard troops, and then kitting them out in terminator armor?

If so, I shudder to think how expensive those units would be, points wise.

Aside from logan, SW termi squads are actually rather cheap, at 33pts base per model. They're just like Chaos termi's but have Counterattack and ATSKNF and more options. They're only expensive if you insist on putting both a TH and an SS on models and on lots of them.

Vaktathi wrote:

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Terminators as troops is the one thing Dark Angels can do that nobody else can. It's kind of a bummer that you can only have 5 man squads, but they're your only option.

Except for Grey Knights and Space Wolves...

With Space Wolves, are you taking Logan Grimnar to make Wolf Guard troops, and then kitting them out in terminator armor?

If so, I shudder to think how expensive those units would be, points wise.

Aside from logan, SW termi squads are actually rather cheap, at 33pts base per model. They're just like Chaos termi's but have Counterattack and ATSKNF and more options. They're only expensive if you insist on putting both a TH and an SS on models and on lots of them.

I dunno. They start getting expensive if you put one of those options on them, let alone both. But they do have a ton of options, I'll give you that. And lord knows their librarians are better than the DA ones...

xSoulgrinderx wrote:So its between Black Templars and Dark Angels then?? How many termies can BT take compared to DA?

BT can take 24 Termis in just HQ (10 for the command 1 Marshall or Castellan and 1 Master of Sanctity or Reclusiarch as 1 HQ due to the BT charachters box) and 30 in Elites (3 groups of 10). True we can't mix and match termis for shooty or CC and neither would we want to. Put the 5 shooty termis with Cyclones in some cover and go to town on armor. Toss 7 assault termis with FC in with a Marshall and in a LRC (comes with MM and can take blessed hull to ignore lance rule) and chop up whatever you hit. Yes it is 43 pts per terminator with a veteran skill (FC, Tank Hunters, or counter attack) but they don't have to be taken. Granted they are not troops but you can run a few small squads in rhinos that are hidden by the termis. Obviously I'm biased as well but I haven't lost a game when I run my termi spam list to date (knock on wood). In short I love the extra umph that BT termis can be given to put them over the top...I mean a dev squad for 50 points more that has a 2+/5++ (lascannons on tanks) and has powerfists. Seems good to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CiaranAnnrach wrote:I dunno. They start getting expensive if you put one of those options on them, let alone both. But they do have a ton of options, I'll give you that. And lord knows their librarians are better than the DA ones...

Please tell me you are joking libbies in a BT army? The heresy!

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

xSoulgrinderx wrote:So its between Black Templars and Dark Angels then?? How many termies can BT take compared to DA?

Keep in mind with Black Templars, you are forced to dedicate your terminator squads to either shooting or CC specialists. (TH+SS falling into the CC Specialist category.) With DA, you can freely mix and match. BT Terminators are also not Troops, so if you want to do an all-terminator army, then you can't do BT.

That said, if you compare the base cost of a squad of 5 terminators, BT come in at 200 points, whereas DA is 215. When you add in a CML, the cost is 225 for BT, and 235 for DA.

BT can take up to two CMLs in a squad, with squad sizes from 5-10. So it's possible to spam multiple units of 5 Terminators with 2 CMLs, which is pretty sweet. They just can't take SS's, so their Invulnerable save is 5+. Any special upgrades, such as getting the Furious Charge skill, are 3 points per model. But they are not Fearless.

Other thing to consider: Belial, the DA HQ, allows you to upgrade one Terminator in one squad into being an Apothecary. You can also give one Terminator in one squad a Chapter Banner, which gives everyone in the squad +1 attack. (I'd put both in the same squad and attach Belial, if it were me.) Dark Angel Terminators all have Fearless, can freely mix and match ranged builds with CC specialists, and have the Deathwing Assault rule.

If you were planning on including non-Terminator units, then take a look at Ravenwing. With Sammael, the Ravenwing bike squads are all troops, with the Scout rule and Teleport Homers. They compliment DA Terminators fairly well. But as a DA player, I'm a bit biased.

BA are BA. Holy crap. They all get fearless, CML, squads of 5-10, and their HQ bolsters their already stupid abilities? MY MIND IS MADE UP HAHA. Now the real Q... How to field them in the most efficent way... I dont have the codex yet, thus, why I wanted to get the info

Akroma06 wrote:

xSoulgrinderx wrote:So its between Black Templars and Dark Angels then?? How many termies can BT take compared to DA?

BT can take 24 Termis in just HQ (10 for the command 1 Marshall or Castellan and 1 Master of Sanctity or Reclusiarch as 1 HQ due to the BT charachters box) and 30 in Elites (3 groups of 10). True we can't mix and match termis for shooty or CC and neither would we want to. Put the 5 shooty termis with Cyclones in some cover and go to town on armor. Toss 7 assault termis with FC in with a Marshall and in a LRC (comes with MM and can take blessed hull to ignore lance rule) and chop up whatever you hit. Yes it is 43 pts per terminator with a veteran skill (FC, Tank Hunters, or counter attack) but they don't have to be taken. Granted they are not troops but you can run a few small squads in rhinos that are hidden by the termis. Obviously I'm biased as well but I haven't lost a game when I run my termi spam list to date (knock on wood). In short I love the extra umph that BT termis can be given to put them over the top...I mean a dev squad for 50 points more that has a 2+/5++ (lascannons on tanks) and has powerfists. Seems good to me.

In terms of raw numbers, DA's can take at most 47 terminators. (6 squads of 5 for troops, 3 squads of 5 for elite, Belial and either a Librarian or Chaplian in Terminator armor - but DA Librarians are not that great.

One thing to keep in mind, with DA all of your points go towards Terminators. With BT, you have to spend at minimum 260 points on the Emperor's Champion and 2 troops choices. So at 2k points, the most terminators you can take with BT is 41, including your HQ. (This is assuming cheapest Emperor's Champion, cheapest troops choices, no upgrades for your terminators, and cheapest chapter master - SS and SB only.) With that setup, you'll have 35 points left over for upgrades. With DA, it's Belial + 8 squads of 5 terminators - totaling 41, with 150 points left over for upgrades. (CMLs for BT are +30 points, for DA they are 20 points.) ((Also, Belial can take a TH+SS for free.))

Comparing the two lists, at 2k you get the same number of Terminators, but with BT you get the Emperor's Champion, and two 5 man marine squads you have to hide the entire game because if they get wiped out you can't claim objectives anymore. The BT Terminators will have to either foot-slog it, or deepstrike. With DA, you have 6 scoring units of Terminators and 2 additional units, and a maximum of 7 CMLs on the table. They have the option of foot-slogging, but they can use the Deathwing Assault and have half their units drop in automatically turn 1, anywhere on the table.

If you start taking LRC to compensate for the BT's footslogging, then I can discuss the virtues of Ravenwing.

But with DA, every point of your army can go to your terminators. You don't have to take troops choices, and you don't have to worry about not having all of your scoring units wiped off the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akroma06 wrote:

CiaranAnnrach wrote:I dunno. They start getting expensive if you put one of those options on them, let alone both. But they do have a ton of options, I'll give you that. And lord knows their librarians are better than the DA ones...

Please tell me you are joking libbies in a BT army? The heresy!

Nope! Talking about Space Wolves, in regards to the whole Logan Grimnar + Wolf Guard Terminator squads suggestion.

Easily Deathwing.

My bro pounds me in the face when he plays his DA as an all Deathwing Army. They are so letahl as troops.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

xSoulgrinderx wrote:So its between Black Templars and Dark Angels then?? How many termies can BT take compared to DA?

Keep in mind with Black Templars, you are forced to dedicate your terminator squads to either shooting or CC specialists. (TH+SS falling into the CC Specialist category.) With DA, you can freely mix and match. BT Terminators are also not Troops, so if you want to do an all-terminator army, then you can't do BT.

That said, if you compare the base cost of a squad of 5 terminators, BT come in at 200 points, whereas DA is 215. When you add in a CML, the cost is 225 for BT, and 235 for DA.

BT can take up to two CMLs in a squad, with squad sizes from 5-10. So it's possible to spam multiple units of 5 Terminators with 2 CMLs, which is pretty sweet. They just can't take SS's, so their Invulnerable save is 5+. Any special upgrades, such as getting the Furious Charge skill, are 3 points per model. But they are not Fearless.

Other thing to consider: Belial, the DA HQ, allows you to upgrade one Terminator in one squad into being an Apothecary. You can also give one Terminator in one squad a Chapter Banner, which gives everyone in the squad +1 attack. (I'd put both in the same squad and attach Belial, if it were me.) Dark Angel Terminators all have Fearless, can freely mix and match ranged builds with CC specialists, and have the Deathwing Assault rule.

If you were planning on including non-Terminator units, then take a look at Ravenwing. With Sammael, the Ravenwing bike squads are all troops, with the Scout rule and Teleport Homers. They compliment DA Terminators fairly well. But as a DA player, I'm a bit biased.

BA are BA. Holy crap. They all get fearless, CML, squads of 5-10, and their HQ bolsters their already stupid abilities? MY MIND IS MADE UP HAHA. Now the real Q... How to field them in the most efficent way... I dont have the codex yet, thus, why I wanted to get the info

No, sorry, DA are set at 5 terminators per squad. But even at 2k points, that's not really an issue.

If you go 'nilla Marines and run Vulkan He'stan, then all of your Thunder Hammers become Master Crafted, which is a nice little buff.

Use terminators you wont regret it there strong,

He's asking what Termies are best, not wether or not he should use them.

I know im saying in general use any of them there all good to use.

But he's not asking if Terminators are good in general. He's asking what SM Codex has the best Terminators.