Abbadon and Shield Breaker

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**Unit1126PLL**

Kommissar Kel wrote:

MoT is very clear: If model has an invulnerable save after you have purchased the model's wargear: increase the save by 1, If the model had no invulnerable save it gains a 5++.

For some reason I can't find the phrase "...after you have purchased the model's wargear..." in my buddy's codex...

**Jidmah**

Unless you can answer "Does Abbadon normally have an invulnerable save?" with "No." he isn't getting a 5++ save from MoT. Simple as that.

**Unit1126PLL**

Jidmah wrote:Unless you can answer "Does Abbadon normally have an invulnerable save?" with "No." he isn't getting a 5++ save from MoT. Simple as that.

Well, does he normally? I mean, does he have one in the shower? Or while he's golfing with the other Chaos CEOs? Or perhaps he has one while he's lounging, reading the latest copy of "I am Horus: The Memoirs of a Son, a Brother, and a Heretic." ?

**Lone Dragoon**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Jidmah wrote:Unless you can answer "Does Abbadon normally have an invulnerable save?" with "No." he isn't getting a 5++ save from MoT. Simple as that.

Well, does he normally? I mean, does he have one in the shower? Or while he's golfing with the other Chaos CEOs? Or perhaps he has one while he's lounging, reading the latest copy of "I am Horus: The Memoirs of a Son, a Brother, and a Heretic." ?

Until we see a stat-line, wargear selection, and rules set for Abaddon during his "down time" we cannot speculate on that in the game. You're trying to use a fluff explanation for rules, and on YMDC it doesn't work so well. We can only use the rules that are printed in the current codex, which give his list of rules and wargear not his downtime stats, to determine the answers to the questions that are asked.

**Foxfyre**

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/361477.page#2696673

The rule sates "Normally" not at the start of the game, how do we define normally? Rulebook says squat.

The same way we define the myriad of other words GW uses in the codex; by using a dictionary. It's not an ideal method but as the BGB doesn't define many words it falls upon the reader to default to the english language and therefore the definitions found within an english dictionary.

[nawr-muh-lee]
–adverb
1. in a normal or regular way: The wound is healing normally.
2. according to rule, general custom, etc.; as a rule; ordinarily; usually.

The regular way to field Abaddon is with terminator armor granting a 5++ save.
The regular way to purchase Abaddon via codex for use in a game includes his 5++ terminator armor
-or to go as far as
According to the rule laid out in the codex, Abaddon is fielded at all times with a suit of terminator armor granting a 5++ save

To me that's a solid definition of normally and when referenced via MoCA it's clear that he gets the save increase but will not get the baseline MoTesque save should he lose his armor due to the Shield breaker round.

That was my answer the last time this came up. Unfortunately it uses a dictionary definition which is against the tenents of YMDC but it's the only true way to define "normally".

**Unit1126PLL**

Foxfyre wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/361477.page#2696673

The rule sates "Normally" not at the start of the game, how do we define normally? Rulebook says squat.

The same way we define the myriad of other words GW uses in the codex; by using a dictionary. It's not an ideal method but as the BGB doesn't define many words it falls upon the reader to default to the english language and therefore the definitions found within an english dictionary.

[nawr-muh-lee]
–adverb
1. in a normal or regular way: The wound is healing normally.
2. according to rule, general custom, etc.; as a rule; ordinarily; usually.

The regular way to field Abaddon is with terminator armor granting a 5++ save.
The regular way to purchase Abaddon via codex for use in a game includes his 5++ terminator armor
-or to go as far as
According to the rule laid out in the codex, Abaddon is fielded at all times with a suit of terminator armor granting a 5++ save

To me that's a solid definition of normally and when referenced via MoCA it's clear that he gets the save increase but will not get the baseline MoTesque save should he lose his armor due to the Shield breaker round.

That was my answer the last time this came up. Unfortunately it uses a dictionary definition which is against the tenents of YMDC but it's the only true way to define "normally".

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. Point conceded.