Which army is best at executing HAHAHA YOU FOOL strategy?

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**Tactical Nuclear Panda**

I would have to say the eldar would be the best. With Eldrad moving d3 units and Autuchs letting you add one to your reserve rolls,you can very quickly change your set up and even when you reserve come in, plus they have swooping hawks, so you can place them on the field and the suddenly pull them off and send them back in next turn.

I would say IG come in second The master of the fleet mixed with an astropath means that you can bring your enemies army in piece meal and really mess with their outflankers while helping your reserves get in. Its often enough to force you enemy to not even reserve things.

Throw Chenkov in there with the "send in the next wave rule" and you can very easily change his deployment only to pull a massive force off the field and reposition them.

Just today I used conscripts to great effect ,in a dawn of war deployment, I congo lined them across the 24 inch line and forced my opponents deployment zone to six inches and then pulled them off the field before he could respond to it

**Kharrak**

I'm surprised at the lack of Dark Eldar prompts here.

Lady Malys allows D3 units to be redeployed after both players have deployed all their units, even placing them into reserve and Vect's ability to seize initiative on a 4+ are quite great assets.

That said, these are things that take effect prior to the game actually starting, but it can allow for some very, very nasty surprises and re-positioning.

Orks also have a small hand in this topic, but mostly as a result of their random nature and "I TOTALLY MEANT TO DO THAT" moments

**labmouse42**

Oddly enough, I had a "HAHAHAHA YOU FOOL" moment at 'ard boys against a very seasoned player.

He moved a squad of his grey hunters to assault a unit of my bikes. He shot my bikes with a plamsa pistol and bolt pistols, killing 25% of them. I used combat tactics to auto-fall back out of range of his assault.

I guess so many people now play BA, SW, Shrike, or Vulcan that people are forgetting about the combat tactics.

**Biophysical**

I'm not saying they're the best at it, but IG also has Al'Rahem to outflank a platoon (which can be pretty formidable), Harker to outflank a vet squad, Creed to outflank/scout a unit of anything but Rough Riders, along with outflanking sentinels and Valkyries/Vendettas. You could outflank near a whole army if you wanted to, with +1 reserve rolls and re-rolling which side you came in on.

**black-rabbit**

I know it's not tourney legal in most places, but an elysian drop troops army can be pretty effective at surprising your opponent.

Your valkyries and any squads in them can outflank, ALL your troops can deep strike (quite effectively if using homing beacons), your sentinels can deep strike, you can take a ridiculous amount of rocket pods and twin linked lascannons, so they hit hard, the officer of the fleet can mess with your enemies reserve rolls and a long range sweeping scanner can prevent pesky enemy infiltrators. Plus you can take a LOT of valkyries.

I've had a lot of fun with this list.

**Ashenshugar**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Ashenshugar wrote:Anyone who reserves all against DE will find themselves unable to enter the board on turn 2.

This is simply not true.

As for the topic, Mechanized Eldar offers the best counter-punching/trap strategies. They get to decide where and when combat takes place more than any other build/army because of their speed, range, and reserve manipulation. The downside is they are terminally boring to play as they're perfect game only lasts 3 turns, of which one is spent in real fighting distance.

Seems to me like you have never played against a Dark Eldar that moves everything 24" turn 1, then moves all 12" turn 2, lining your 72" board edge with ravagers, raiders and venoms. All of his infantry jump out so that you have no area of the board to legally enter. If you try and ram you are stuck with half your vehicle off the board (immediately destroyed). The only thing that can legally enter the board at that point is a fast skimmer, and your best hope is to move flat out (over 12") which you would immediately be hit by a volley of dark lances.

**DarknessEternal**

Ashenshugar wrote:
Seems to me like you have never played against a Dark Eldar that moves everything 24" turn 1, then moves all 12" turn 2, lining your 72" board edge with ravagers, raiders and venoms. All of his infantry jump out so that you have no area of the board to legally enter. If you try and ram you are stuck with half your vehicle off the board (immediately destroyed). The only thing that can legally enter the board at that point is a fast skimmer, and your best hope is to move flat out (over 12") which you would immediately be hit by a volley of dark lances.

First, you have to be playing at a large enough points level that you'll have enough models to make this spread while also having an army good enough to beat someone who doesn't reserve everything.

Second, ramming doesn't stop movement, it pauses it. It only comes to a stop if it fails to explode the vehicle being rammed.

Third, you'd have to be playing even more points cut off the board such that fast skimmers or jetbikes had to move flat out. Please see any of the number of battle reports where people are specifically trying this manuever and failing to cover everything.

Fourth, Scouts and Infiltrators walk in from the side and Deep Strikers just land somewhere.

I've seen it attempted a dozen times, it's never worked. It just channels in where your opponent comes in.

**deviant cadaver**

He was looking for a all deep striking army and no once thinks of daemons. They can't effect their reserve rolls , but they can split their force to counter how every you want.

**Monster Rain**

DarknessEternal wrote:I've seen it attempted a dozen times, it's never worked. It just channels in where your opponent comes in.

I would go a step further and say that every time I've seen it attempted it has been a colossal failure.

**shimraa**

deviant cadaver wrote:He was looking for a all deep striking army and no once thinks of daemons. They can't effect their reserve rolls , but they can split their force to counter how every you want.

ah, but this is for a "hah, suprise!" idea. Daemons all deep strike every time. So I find people dont think it so muc ha suprise as just expecting the unexpected. Of course if they have never played against daemons..... Their baptism is always fun

**G00fySmiley**

Powerguy wrote:
n0t_u wrote:
Jihadnik wrote:
Powerguy wrote:BA DoA armies get re-rolls on their reserve rolls, that's about as good as you can get as far as reserve manipulation goes (since you can re-roll if you don't want to arrive yet as well).

Essentially you are describing what is often referred to as a null deployment list. You deploy nothing or next to nothing initially and through some mechanism or other ensure you get the first strike in the turn you arrive. BA DoA is an obvious one, but they have dropped in effectiveness/popularity with GK bringing insane Deep Strike defence. There are certainly other lists which can do this as well, Mech Eldar with 1-2 Autarch's work the same way, as do properly built Drop Pod lists. Templars do it automatically, but all the other Marine lists can effectively do this by taking enough empty Pods that they drop nothing turn 1 (although this usually means they deploy some fire support elements initially). Grey Knights have heaps of options in this regard with multiple Terminator options (which can all Deep Strike) and reserve buffs. The other candidate is Dark Eldar, who can do complete null deployments with Harlies + Portal, or partial null deployment with Raider+unit with Portal.

Now see, I like the idea of empty drop pods but where do they come from in the force allocation chart? They're in the dedicated transport section right? So how can you take empty ones?

You can deploy a unit outside of its dedicated transport, so you can buy them for squads then deploy them normally giving you empty drop pods.

Yeah the idea is that you buy Pods for fire support units which really don't need them like Riflemen Dreads, Thunderfire Cannons, Devastator Squads etc, its only 35pts and they aren't a complete waste of points as they block LoS, movement and give you Beacons to increase accuracy for the remaining Pods. This lets you leave both your heavy hitters (like a full sized Sternguard unit of 2) and scoring units in reserve without committing much early on. Technically its not a true null deployment army, because you tend to deploy the fire support elements in hard cover to start doing damage straight away, but the theory behind it is the same.

agreed to all btu the LOS it weas my understanding drop pods didn't count for terms of LOS due to people desembarkign them behing the pod. they count as immobalised vehicless and can of coarse block movement ... but not block los

**phogiston735**

How bout using a C'tan as a suicide nuke due to their explosion upon death? Force the enemy to kill you, then BOOM! Slaughter some squads in your radius. I feel that is a moment true to the OP's subject title.

Or perhaps, leaving a squad in charge range of a supposedly stronger foe, only to have your squad have the upper hand. (Example GKT squad butchering a ASM and Sang guard squad)

**black-rabbit**

The problem with that C'tan tactic, is if your opponent is going to kill the C'tan then chances are it's going to be by shooting at it, or by phasing out the army meaning the explosion will not usually harm anything.

If the C'tan get's into combat, then chances are it's going to slaughter everything anyway.