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Darth Badguy wrote:Do you have a regular army list you use that you could post?

Here's my plan for 2k points, still working up to it at the moment:

HQ
Azrael 225
Command Squad 200
-Power Weapon x2
-Meltagun x2
-Apothacary
-Chapter Standard
-Razorback w/Lascannon 80

Belial 130

Troops

Tactical Squad x10 215
-Power Fist
-Meltagun
-Plasma Cannon
-Razorback w/Lascannon 80

Tactical Squad x10 215
-Power Fist
-Meltagun
-Plasma Cannon
-Razorback w/Lascannon 80

Terminators 270
-Deathwing Banner
-Apothacary

Elites

Dreadnaught 140
-Plasma Cannon
-Extra Armor
Dreadnaught 140
-Plasma Cannon
-Extra Armor

Fast Attack

Land Speeder 75
-Typhoon Missile Launchers
-Multi-Melta

Land Speeder 75
-Typhoon Missile Launchers
-Multi-Melta

Land Speeder 75
-Typhoon Missile Launchers
-Multi-Melta

Yuber wrote:
If you are already packing so much AT, then maybe a Predator is not what you are looking for.

The dakka pred is the only anti-infantry option for the pred, and its firepower is very meager. Its only good for contesting objectives - not really useful seeing as how you are already packing alot of tanks.

For the same points cost, you can just field a whilrwind instead, or better yet, a thunderfire cannon for when you punish players that fill their transports with 10 people after you pop them.

Thunderfire Cannons are, sadly, not in the Dark Angel codex otherwise I would bring one, and the Whirlwind always seemed....lackluster. Effective against hordes? Deffinatly. Against MEQs? Not so much....

tyhe Dakka pred is not the only Anit infantry pred.A AC/LC pred is my weapon of choice.It jhas the shots to take out hordes,and is deadly to heavy infantry.It is also capable of handling vehicles.Add in a SB and HK and you aer good to go.

Deadshot wrote:tyhe Dakka pred is not the only Anit infantry pred.A AC/LC pred is my weapon of choice.It jhas the shots to take out hordes,and is deadly to heavy infantry.

Four shots does not "take out hordes".

If you hit and wound with every shot over 6 turns, and the horde has no cover, you have killed 24 models. This is also predicated on them not assaulting you or shooting back.

My defination of take out horddes is reduce the amount of modals.Plus a stormbolter will usually make 5.That is 1/6 gone in one turn.

The predator's job is suppressive fire,not anti anything.It provides cover for the infantry.If you really need anti infanrty or AT,try a land raider on for size.MM and TL LC for tanks,and a TL HB for infantry,which it can target because of PoTMS.

Deadshot wrote:My defination of take out horddes is reduce the amount of modals.

So a melta gun is anti-horde? My point is, your definition of "anti-horde" is wildly different from the accepted understanding of the term.

Please, please, please use spell check. You break forum rules every time you post.

Sorry.I can't see they key board while looking at the screen.


And yes,in my opinion a Melta can be anit horde,if it reduces them by 1 modal,then it is good enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I prefer one guarenteed kill over a hundred possible kills.

NOTHING is guaranteed in warhammer. Dice for the dice god and all that.

@OP: I agree with Yuber. If you're already packing that much AT it might just be worth it to drop the points on something else. I'm still a fan of vindicators, but you could probably get away with a devastator squad or a dread or something.

Forgive me - I have forgotten that you are playing a Dark Angels army.

However, after perusing your list, there is no need for Anti infantry there.

You are already packing an Honor guard and a Terminator squad as well - those are enough to push through numerous infantry.

I would suggest tho, if you really want anti infantry, that you add a Heavy Flamers in your dreads, and drop the plasma cannon for an assault cannon, or a multimelta - in this case you bring plasma guns for your honor guard instead of melta guns.

WanderingFox wrote:NOTHING is guaranteed in warhammer. Dice for the dice god and all that.

QFT

I prefer one guarenteed kill over a hundred possible kills.

I would prefer the hundred possible kills, seeing as how statistically, I will get 16-17 kills that way vs a 2+ save. Much better than 1.

Besides, if you are firing at a horde, most people will string their units enough to get a cover save. Now that melta attack only has a 50/50 chance of killing a model. You're better off firing a hail of bolter shots at that point

OK, it's time to run the numbers on the possible Predator variants, to hopefully settle all of this.

I'm going to calculate the average results for a round of shooting against various infantry targets, and the average number of glances and pens for AV10-14.

Against infantry, no cover:

Auto/HB: 4.44 dead Guardsmen, 3.77 dead Orks, 1.26 dead MEQ, .63 dead TEQ
Auto/Las: 2.22 dead Guardsmen, 2.22 dead Orks, 1.48 dead MEQ, .93 dead TEQ
TL-Las/HB: 4.07 dead Guardsmen, 3.41 dead Orks, 1.63 dead MEQ, .83 dead TEQ
Triple Las: 1.85 dead Guardsmen, 1.85 dead Orks, 1.85 dead MEQ, 1.23 dead TEQ

Against infantry, 4+ cover

Auto/HB: 2.22 dead Guardsmen, 1.89 dead Orks, 1.26 dead MEQ, .63 dead TEQ
Auto/Las: 1.11 dead Guardsmen, 1.11 dead Orks, .93 dead MEQ, .74 dead TEQ
TL-Las/HB: 2.04 dead Guardsmen, 1.7 dead Orks, .96 dead MEQ, .71 dead TEQ
Triple Las: .92 dead Guardsmen, .92 dead Orks, .92 dead MEQ, .92 dead TEQ

Against vehicles

Auto/HB: .88 glances/1.32 pens against AV10, .88 glances/.44 pens against AV11, .22 glances/.22 pens against AV12, .22 glances against AV13
Auto/Las: .44 glances/1.76 pens against AV10, .44 glances/1.32 pens against AV11, .44 glances/.88 pens against AV12, .44 glances/.44 pens against AV13, .22/.22 against AV14
TL-Las/HB: .81/1.4 against AV10, .81/.59 against AV11, .15/.44 against AV12, .15/.3 against AV13, .15/.15 against AV14
Triple Las: .37/1.84 against AV10, .37/.147 against AV11, .37/1.1 against AV12, .37/.74 against AV13, .37/37 against AV14

So, obviously Triple Las is the king against vehicles, while Auto/HB is the best against infantry in general. However, note that none of the above are very good at killing infantry, especially since the cover numbers are most relevant. In addition, the Auto/Las version is close to even with the Triple Las version against AV12 or less. I'd recommend the Auto/Las version, as it is 45 points cheaper.