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If you look at the history, names, and successor chapters of the Imperial Fists, you'll see some very very strong Greek themes. I would put them ahead of any other chapter as the closest to the Hellenic League.

@psiensis well tbh, i first of all had an idea of something resembling the Hellenic Army, but seeing as that would only be matched by IG regiments in its function i kinda relaxed my views slightly.

The Iron snakes so far as pointed out so far, are pretty much all im gonna find that actually has near obvious references instead of subtle ones.

@Lobukia The Imperial Fists are based off of junkers / prussians in their naming style *not sure about exact practises*, and as for a reference to Alexander in the Sons of dorn description i cant find anything which springs out *sorry if im missing something infront of my eyes, its early morning here *

Grey Templar wrote:the BAs are more Roman in their style(Batnipple Sanguinary Guard armor plates anyone?)

Given their broadly Renaissance Italian names and style, I am inclined to assume that the Sanguinary Guard's armour is intended to evoke the statuary of that era (itself obviously faux-classical) rather than Hoplite armour.

Interesting pick up on the Greek names in the Imperial Fists successors, especially the Soul drinkers.
The Fists themselves are all over the place with German, Greek, French, Russian, Chinese and Indian names that I could recognize.
The Crimson Fists are heavily Spanish sounding.
The Iron Knights are from Bycantia (Byzantium) which was a Greek City but that's only a single name.
The Executioners sound like their names came via a shot of meth.
The Black Templars are strongly mediaeval German in name and culture.

The Iron Snakes by far are the most obviously Greek Chapter with their names and culture.
The Minotaurs as I mentioned in my previous post are also Greek flavoured due to their name and chapter icon and I'd say that the Soul Drinkers have a lot of Greek names too but nothing particularly greek in their culture.

Quite simply you won't find an exact match. GW borrows and mixes historical influences all over the place. You will have to determine what you think is close enough to what you are looking for.


Now, personally, if your goal is to create a Hellenistic Greece theme, another point to consider is in relation to what? If the Imperium and the Ecclesiarchy is akin to medieval Europe, then I think Eldar would fill the thematic role. Aside from having the high horsehair crests and Corinthian like helms, they also fit the role of being an older culture, viewed as flawed and decadent by the "current" medieval themed culture.

@cadbren Yeah i saw a few similarities, but i agree with the Iron snakes being the most Greek of 40k, also with a chapter master called Pedro im sure their Spanish based

@Icrandus The only issue i have with Eldar is that they have a heavy Chinese / Egyptian base to them, the Mythology is a Greeco-Egyptian mix, though i see your point, its hard to find solid ground to work of with them.

dakkawolf wrote:@cadbren Yeah i saw a few similarities, but i agree with the Iron snakes being the most Greek of 40k, also with a chapter master called Pedro im sure their Spanish based

@Icrandus The only issue i have with Eldar is that they have a heavy Chinese / Egyptian base to them, the Mythology is a Greeco-Egyptian mix, though i see your point, its hard to find solid ground to work of with them.

It will also depend on what type of "Greek" theme you are trying for. Are you trying for a Classical Greek or a Hellenistic Greek? The latter did have mixture with other cultures such as Egyptian and Persian.

I find the Ultramarines quite greeky. They have that horseshoe emblem. They have elites with spears. They are very egalitarian. They have lots of leaves on their heraldry.

@ChaosGalvatron As mentioned earlier, the Ultra's have some greek references, but are quite literally Romans in space (i.e. their battle tactics, the fact their main close combat weapon is a gladius, their general look based off of Roman Legionaries, and more).

Sorry, just to make a note here, the only references *atm* i can think of that the Ultramarines have is The Fortress of Hera on Macragge.

what aspect of I'm just going to say ancient greece is the OP looking for.
government style aka mob rule in athens or oligarchy everywhere else, going to be kind of hard to find.

if you're looking for style of warfare. The orks are going to be the closest in my opinion. Greek warfare before Rome was almost constant, involved everyone ages 18-41 was very brutal but short and didn't incure very many casulties.

It was a very effective means of deciding political disputes outside of politics. the loosing side typically only lost 15% at most. A very low attrition rate.

Ork society is known for its constant warfare, somehow still being highly successful and being led by strongman(which besides athens, often as not greece was run this way) the orks are almost always broken up into lots of small communities as well. sounds a lot like the mountains and valleys of greece. The orks also have a very straitforward simply style of warfare with very little "low cunning" It would fit into a very orkish culture to simply put all the big guys on the right wing to let them beat up on all the little guys. which is exactly what greece did.

Greeks also prefered shock warfare above all other types, straight and simple battle decides everything and everyone abides by that. Much how ork forces are formed and continue to snowball with no hardfeeling from the conquered. Orks seemed to have inherited the western idea of shock warfare from the greeks!

If there isn't a SM chapter that satisfies you, just make a DIY one. Problem solved.

I would say Ultramarines or Imperial Fists. They have an ornamental mane on top of their helmets, and a repeating theme of pylons in their structures and vehicles.

its a matter of what you're looking for, if you want fights like greeks, I think that orks are far closer. If you want looks like greeks, well then you'd probably have to stay away from xenos. The religious aspect of space marines really just turns me off to them as greeks compared to war as a continuation of politics which orks seem closer too. For them it just doesn't take much to exhaust their political means.

Orks are the most like ancient Greece, because Ork players love boyz.

I think the Sons of Sparta have this thread beat

dakkawolf wrote:Sorry, just to make a note here, the only references *atm* i can think of that the Ultramarines have is The Fortress of Hera on Macragge.

A large percentage of named marines have a Greek flavour such as Learchus, Pausanius, Chronus, Lysimachus, Antilochus and Ixion. I don't know if Agemmon is a real name but it seems to be based on Agamemnon.

Something about orks just seems alittle wrong to fit, though i see where your coming from with that ^_^

I have thought of DIY chapters, but i was wondering if any existing references could be found, the Iron snakes are very alike with Ancient greece. I just dont see where the Imperial fists *based off of Prussian references and likenesses* have any references personally =\

As for the modern Hellenic Army, im gonna leave that out of my searches, as IG seems to have that held down in general.

Names wise i agree with you on that Cadbren, but names alone for me dont seem to fit.

Definitely blood angels, because they have the latin names, like dante and corbulo.

Personally, I am appalled at the insensitivity directed at our friends the Greeks in this thread. They in no way resemble the Orks who, in turn, should also be appalled at the level of insensitivity in this thread at being compared to Greeks. *takes off PC hat*

Now, I think the 'Snakes' are a good bet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/primaryhistory/ancient_greeks/greeks_at_war/

Look at the photos of the vases. The snake was a very common theme amongst Greek Hoplites. There must be something to it that a Space Marine Chapter uses such iconography especially since it's displayed in much the same way.

Edit: I HATE trying to post pictures!!!

Uhlan wrote:Personally, I am appalled at the insensitivity directed at our friends the Greeks in this thread. They in no way resemble the Orks who, in turn, should also be appalled at the level of insensitivity in this thread at being compared to Greeks. *takes off PC hat*

Now, I think the 'Snakes' are a good bet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/primaryhistory/ancient_greeks/greeks_at_war/

Look at the photos of the vases. The snake was a very common theme amongst Greek Hoplites. There must be something to it that a Space Marine Chapter uses such iconography especially since it's displayed in much the same way.

Edit: I HATE trying to post pictures!!!

sir, i may not agree with what you say, i will respect it, since it is a valid viewpoint. but, i can see what you mean, i still say blood angels though.

so instead of just saying "NO!" to my ork hypothesis. (I'm looking at you uhlan) I would enjoy a slightly more thought provoking response. One I could possible respond too?

I also must say that as an ork player and able to represent my own waagh quite ably, I have asked my orks and they do not find being compared to greeks offensive at all after being informed of their former glory as heavy infantry.

I must admit I am not going with looks so I understand the OP, though I'm positive some creative modelling could give you some very greek looking orks. if you wanted to use fantasy bases and spears, that could be very effective. I have a few orks I've given spears and I really like the look.

Just to point out. Nids are very similar to the 'Alien' films, Crons are similar to the terminator, maybe it is a good idea to look towards films as well as history. Sentinels- Star Wars walkers anyone, what about Stormtroopers, hell what about Starship Troopers?

Orks are pretty much the opposite of Greeks in the 40K setting. Greeks are supposed to be the creators of western civilization. Orks are the destroyers of civilization. Orks represent the many Celtic and Germanic barbarians that beset Rome.

Problem is 'Greece' in ancient times wasn't Greece as we tend to think of it now.

It was several massively different nations, that all got lumped together by historians.

Sparta was as much a part of Greece (from that perpective) as Athens.

Athens was civilized and considered decadent. It was famous for its fleets and for its thinkers/philosphers.

Sparta was not too big on eggheads, turning out badasses instead who spent most of their lives in one war or another.

Boeitia (sp?) was farmlands mainly- peaceful and pretty dull..

There are a heap of others in the area with their own identity.

Orks have some aspects of the Spartan, but minus the iron discipline. They are bred for, and obsessed with war, low tech, prone to using slaves as bullet shields (helots=grots) don't really care much about money or diplomacy etc etc..

Eldar are more like Athenians. Very high tech, artistic, philosophical, with soem of the best ships around, living in massive fortified cities.

SM also have something of the Spartan ethos, mixed with a hefty dose of Knights Templar and medieval monasticism and a wodge of late period Rome.

The DE fit the ruling classes of Athens and surrounding area well, only hinked up and darker. The Hippeas class and above turned up to 11.


Visually the Dark Eldar ships resemble the Athenian Biremes and Triremes quite closely (for futuristic trop transports).

Basically it depends on what you consider 'Greece" and at what historical period you're looking.

woah there Ascalam Greece did have its own identity and consider itself to be of the same ethos They did this through games at Olympia and Delphi and other PAN-HELLENIC shrines. I believe that everyone pretty well agrees that there is no obvious fit. Most historians or at least half way decent ones, do tend to stack athens, sparta, and then the rest of greece in seperate piles. I believe that when looking at ancient greece outside of athens and sparta, several similarities can be drawn between ork Kulture. If one wishes to emphasize this in their army, it could work. But as you point out, many other races share some similarities and if a particular army wished to emphasize that, it could work as well

remilia_scarlet wrote:Definitely blood angels, because they have the latin names, like dante and corbulo.

Which would make them Romans, not Greeks. Or would if Dante were not a name from Renaissance Florence rather than Classical Rome.

vercingatorix wrote:woah there Ascalam Greece did have its own identity and consider itself to be of the same ethos They did this through games at Olympia and Delphi and other PAN-HELLENIC shrines. I believe that everyone pretty well agrees that there is no obvious fit. Most historians or at least half way decent ones, do tend to stack athens, sparta, and then the rest of greece in seperate piles. I believe that when looking at ancient greece outside of athens and sparta, several similarities can be drawn between ork Kulture. If one wishes to emphasize this in their army, it could work. But as you point out, many other races share some similarities and if a particular army wished to emphasize that, it could work as well

At which period?

They considered themselves to be from Hellas (not Greece yet). They weren't referred to as greeks, but as Hellenes, coming from Hellas (the area the various Greek city-states were in). It's much like referring to the various pre-columbian cultures in south america as being all one identity. They shared a common group of languages, similar mythology etc also.

The Hellenes usually referred to themselves by nationality, rather than by a group nationality, referring to themselves as Dorians, Spartans, Ionians etc etc.

They did hold multinational events such as the games at Olympia and Delphi (and most considered the Pytheia there holy), and they shared a common language and compatible (not completely congruent) mythology, but unless they were travelling outside the Aegean they would be far more likely to refer to themselves by the city-state they originated from.

At least until Aristotle came along, in mid-late period Athens.

'Greek (n.) O.E. Grecas, Crecas (pl.), early Germanic borrowing from L. Graeci "the Hellenes," from Gk. Grakoi. Aristotle, who was the first to use Graikhos as equivalent to Hellenes ("Meteorologica" I.xiv), wrote that it was the name originally used by Illyrians for the Dorians in Epirus, from Graii, native name of the people of Epirus.

But a modern theory (put forth by German classical historian Georg Busolt, 1850-1920), derives it from Graikhos "inhabitant of Graia" (lit. "gray"), a town on the coast of Boeotia, which was the name given by the Romans to all Greeks, originally to the Greek colonists from Graia who helped found Cumae (9c. B.C.E.), the important city in southern Italy where the Latins first encountered Greeks. Under this theory, it was reborrowed in this general sense by the Greeks.

The Germanic languages originally borrowed the word with an initial -k- sound (cf. O.H.G. Chrech, Goth. Kreks), which probably was their initial sound closest to the Latin -g- at the time; the word was later refashioned.
It was subtle of God to learn Greek when he wished to become an author -- and not to learn it better. [Nietzsche, "Beyond Good and Evil," 1886]
Meaning "the Greek language" is from late 14c.; meaning "unintelligible speech, gibberish" is from c.1600. Meaning "Greek letter fraternity member" is student slang, 1900. Greek (adj.) late 14c., from Greek (n.). Earlier Gregeis (c.1300), from O.Fr. Gregois; also Greekish (O.E. Grecisc). In venery, "anal," by 1970. Greek gift is from "Æneid," II.49: "timeo Danaos et dona ferentes." '

@Uhlan Yeah i agree, ive noticed the snake iconography used often (and totally agree with the snakes as ive mentioned earleir in this thread), only thing which bugs me is about the Hydra iconography of the alpha legion, which is a Greece reference, yet they hold no Greek similarities (Ancient, Classical, medieval or modern Hellenic army / peoples).

@Ascalam You could say the same about Italians though, if you were from Florence you were florentine, if you were from Venice you were Venetian, and yet they were Italians under one pile *im talking italy as a united country*

Iron Snakes. i think Ultras are more like romans

also cusodes have a bit of greek feel
constantin valdor, haedo emankon, amon tauromachian