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Akroma - because you didnt say "if you cant place it at all such that it isnt over a firnedly model, its a miss" you said "if it htis a friendly model, its a miss" - the latter is incorrect, as it is not a sufficient condition to cause the shot to miss, there has to be NO legal place for it to be placed without touching a friendly model for it to be a miss; you missed this condition off, making the statement more general and thus incorrect.

Fearspect wrote:Here is the cliffnotes summary of how to properly fire the cannon:

1) Decide any point, anywhere within 12" of your weapon.
2) Declare the unit you are shooting at.
3) Cover as many models in the target unit as possible whilst not breaking the following rules:
3a) Cannot cover friendly models.
3b) Large end of the template cannot be closer than the small end of the template to the shooting weapon.

The key is to pick a good initial point.

Which is actually not clear by RAW, as posts before you perfectly demonstrated. Your way is one of three ways to "properly" fire the cannon.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Akroma - because you didnt say "if you cant place it at all such that it isnt over a firnedly model, its a miss" you said "if it htis a friendly model, its a miss" - the latter is incorrect, as it is not a sufficient condition to cause the shot to miss, there has to be NO legal place for it to be placed without touching a friendly model for it to be a miss; you missed this condition off, making the statement more general and thus incorrect.

Ahh ok I see where I messed up. I had it right in my head I just wrote it poorly, fully agree.

Fearspect wrote:Here is the cliffnotes summary of how to properly fire the cannon:

1) Decide any point, anywhere within 12" of your weapon.
2) Declare the unit you are shooting at.
3) Cover as many models in the target unit as possible whilst not breaking the following rules:
3a) Cannot cover friendly models.
3b) Large end of the template cannot be closer than the small end of the template to the shooting weapon.

The key is to pick a good initial point.

This is how I would play it.

No Jidmah, your two of your three are wrong, but I'll toss in there that mine was also wrong, after having read the Inferno Cannon rules (which state you fully place the template, THEN treat it like a template weapon for hitting/damaging purposes):

Jidmah wrote:
There are 3 common ways to play the hellhound
1) Pick a place somewhere within 12" and then cover as many models as possible from there

If you mean cover as many models from any units, this is incorrect. You simply place the cannon first.

Jidmah wrote:
2) Cover as many models as possible while keeping the small end within 12" and closer than the big one

You place the template first, then gain the 'follow the rules of a template'. As such, your initial placement can be anywhere.

Jidmah wrote:
3) Inferno cannon rules replace "cover as many models as possible". Place template anywhere you want, while keeping the small end within 12" and closer than the big one. If you don't cover the target unit, you miss.

This one was close, but you cannot actually miss with this weapon. Based on its description of how to fire it, you must never at any time pick a target. You just place it, then roll up some wounds.

This is all based on the wording of the Inferno Cannon which has not received any errata:

"To fire the inferno cannon place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon."

...which indicates full placement occurs before moving on to the template rules. If you actually placed it over a friendly unit (no clue why this is even being discussed honestly), your shot cannot be fired in this way and you must place it differently.

See, you should read the thread before posting. There are people agreeing and disagreeing to every one of the three ways I posted. Because it isn't clear. At all.
In addition, you missed the whole point of 1) - of course it is referring to the targeted unit.

You also have to pick a target and check LoS for all weapons before you fire them. Basic shooting rules say so, and neither template nor inferno cannon tell you otherwise.

The inferno cannon specifically tells you to do otherwise.

i don't see anywhere that it negates the standard rules for shooting. It tells you how to fire it, but never does it say that you can fire it without picking a target for your shots, checking line of sight, or any of the other basic shooting requirements, even if you don't have to place the template over the (strange but valid given the wording)

If it does, you probably can quote the exact place telling you not to check los or changing the procedure of checking LoS.

In order to fire the inferno cannon(which are the rules you are quoting) you must determine whether the hellhound is allowed to fire any of its weapon, which you figure out by picking a target and checking LoS. See BRB pg. 16 "Which models can fire?" and BRB pg. 58 "Vehicle weapons & LoS".

"To fire the inferno cannon place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon."

It says right there that you simply place it. It does not say to pick a target or anything like that. You would have to if it were worded in the opposite fashion, placing the 'treat it like any other template weapon' first in the rules statement, but it is not used that way until after it has placed its template.

I still play it exactly as I described earlier, at the end of page 1, but having carefully read its rules, the errata and FAQ articles, I see no need to force someone to play it so restrictively.

You still have to pick a target as the rules don't say "instead of picking a target..."

Fearspect wrote:"To fire the inferno cannon place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon."

It says right there that you simply place it. It does not say to pick a target or anything like that. You would have to if it were worded in the opposite fashion, placing the 'treat it like any other template weapon' first in the rules statement, but it is not used that way until after it has placed its template.

I still play it exactly as I described earlier, at the end of page 1, but having carefully read its rules, the errata and FAQ articles, I see no need to force someone to play it so restrictively.

You may not fire the inferno cannon unless the hellhound may fire any weapons. The hellhound must pick a target and check LoS before it can fire the inferno cannon. Before that you are not firing the inferno cannon, so those rules don't apply.
By your reasoning a hellhound may fire the inferno cannon even if it is destroyed or it moved 18".

Fear - so, when you said the rules for the inferno cannon "specifically" tell you otherwise, you were lying?

the rules say no such thing. You must have LOS, and you must pick a target, because the Inferno cannon rules do not SPECIFY otherwise.

DakkaDakka wrote:

Brother Azul wrote:Well thanks for the replies everyone. I think i understand it now although correct me if i've misunderstood.

An Inferno cannon is essentialy a flamer with a 12" barrel.

Yae or Nay?

With an adjustable length barrel but i suppose that that is a good way to look at it. But remember you are not allowed to hit your own side unless the rules says otherwise scattering excluded.