Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Uh, whether you like them or not (III was... OK, I guess, at least compared to I or II, which were awful)... it's still canon. The guy who writes the story gets to decide what is true or not in his fictional universe, regardless of how emotionally invested you are in it.
After all, it's canon that the Grey Knights drenched themselves in Sister blood and Draigo carved his name in Moratarion's heart, whether you like it or not.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: The best thing I've seen about the blueray Star Wars release, was a guy on Amazon UK making a huge 'positive' review about how he couldn't wait to see the Christmas Special on HD.
I lol'd alot on that.
On a side note, not sure if this has been mentioned on Dakka yet.. but.. uh-oh.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: The best thing I've seen about the blueray Star Wars release, was a guy on Amazon UK making a huge 'positive' review about how he couldn't wait to see the Christmas Special on HD.
I lol'd alot on that.
On a side note, not sure if this has been mentioned on Dakka yet.. but.. uh-oh.
Well like the article says..... "If people stop buying them, maybe Lucas will stop playing with them."
And its not like other people haven't done revisionist versions of their own work... This one comes to mind...
The Producers: Brooks made only a few notable changes from the original story: First, the setting was changed from 1968 to 1959. Consequently, the character L.S.D. had to be eliminated (L.S.D the drug didn't exist in the 1950s). The role of Hitler in the production number is taken over by De Bris. Also, the female character Ulla is given a much more prominent role. Ulla, played by Lee Meredith, only appears briefly as Bialystock's "secretary" in the 1968 film.
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
Mel Brooks making changes to a script/screenplay is the same as literally changing a film now? The original film is still the same now as it was when it was shown in the theaters. If they went back and edited out Gene Wilder and CGI'd in some walrus's in the background there might be an argument. The movie is unchanged, which can not be said of Star Wars. And yes, Star Wars, not Episdone IV: A New Hope.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Canon is the idea that within a fictional setting certain stories and ideas are definitive, and this is almost always based on their origin. That is, if the original creator came up with them they're canon, or in the case of multi-format universes the canon events are the ones that are in the original format (so in the case of Star Wars the six films are canon, while the books, computer games and all the rest are not).
This has nothing to do with whether the things considered canon are good or not, it has everything to do with setting a standard universe that everyone can agree on before they all set off making up their own stuff. It is important that everyone accepts that Vader really is Luke's father as a common starting point.
You don't have to stick to canon, of course, I've never written fan fiction but I have played a lot of RPGs, including the old WEG Star Wars game, and often told players straight out how this setting is different to the canon. The thing that canon does is let everyone start from the same place, without spending days going through every crappy novel and piece of fan fiction to explain if they were part of the universe we're about to game in.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Medium of Death wrote:Suddenly! The distinct taste of sick in my mouth...
What is Lucas thinking... seriously...
Right, no more Star Wars product for me.
Look what you made me do George.
noooooooooo!.... Hold on let me try that again...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
/joke
The man built the universe. This makes all the films canon even if you didn't like them. To say that the episodes 1-3 aren't canon it would be like reading a series of novels, not liking the first several novels then deciding that the events in them didn't happen.
I don't really see what the problem is. They may not have been the greatest films, but they do add to the whole picture.
nosferatu1001 wrote:That guy got *really* instantly killed.
Being canon doesn't really mean anything though, in the big picture. This isn't a religion, it is a series of fiction based off B sci-fi serials. I'm not writing Star Wars officially licensed anything so I can choose to take the parts I like and ignore the parts I do not. This is not the same as denying the sun is hot or the heart pumps blood. It is a personal preference about an insignificant thing. As much as it is his IP, it is also my personal enjoyment of it in my own way. If I could buy the original versions of the original trilogy on Blu-Ray I would, but then I am a film buff and prefer to be able to share films and shorts as they were originally seen. As it is I won't own any of them as I am not one to complain and then buy it anyway.
It isn't just a plot but an important moment in cinema and should be able to be seen as it originally was to help understand the time it was made as well as the context. It is like changing all the cartoons to get rid of racism and other signifiers that we weren't quite as enlightened now. Bugs did say we should "slap a jap" in WW2 and Tom & Jerry did do a few blackface jokes. I can understand not showing them on TV for kids, but they are generally unavailable period. Doing any kind of research on the subject is almost impossible as non edited versions are becoming exceedingly rare.
The George Lucas of 1988 would totally get into a fistfight with the George Lucas of today. Taken from his Congressional testimony:
These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tomorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with ‘fresher faces,’ or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor’s lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new ‘original’ negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires….
In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be ‘replaced’ by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten…. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/01 17:38:51
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Prequels? Wth are you guys talking about? There's only 3, and they went in order...
But seriously, I wish people would stop bringing them up. I'm trying to convince myself that they don't exist. It's not that they're non-canon, or anything like that; they just don't exist.
Jon
Dakka's No.1 Official Topic Stopper!
zombiegleemax wrote: You know you qualify as artillery when it's more effective to use divination magic to locate your targets than a Spot check.
These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tomorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with ‘fresher faces,’ or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor’s lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new ‘original’ negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires….
In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be ‘replaced’ by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten…. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.
Welp, if George Lucas wasn't officially an ass before...
Ahtman wrote:Being canon doesn't really mean anything though, in the big picture. This isn't a religion, it is a series of fiction based off B sci-fi serials. I'm not writing Star Wars officially licensed anything so I can choose to take the parts I like and ignore the parts I do not. This is not the same as denying the sun is hot or the heart pumps blood. It is a personal preference about an insignificant thing. As much as it is his IP, it is also my personal enjoyment of it in my own way.
Absolutely, canon isn't about deciding what absolutely cannot be changed, it's about starting from a common point. If I decide I don't care about the superweapon some random bad guy from one of the EU books threatened to use at some point, I don't need to tell anyone else about it, they'll just figure it out.
But if I decide that the Ewoks were utterly slaughtered in RotJ, and the Rebellion soundly defeated, but the Emperor was still killed by Vader before he died, then I'd have to tell people that for them to make sense of my story.
Canon is just about recognising the important, core elements of the story, so that we have a common starting point, which in turn makes it easier to explain what we've changed in our own setting.
The George Lucas of 1988 would totally get into a fistfight with the George Lucas of today. Taken from his Congressional testimony:
These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tomorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with ‘fresher faces,’ or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor’s lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new ‘original’ negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires….
In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be ‘replaced’ by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten…. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.
Wow. Thanks for that. Interesting how much one guy can change, when suddenly he's the guy who gets to decide what is changed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chromedog wrote:Yes, and the EU is also canon.
I'm not sure that's true. I know Lucas was always very distant from the EU stuff, and considered none of it binding on any future material he was going to write.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/09/02 02:13:27
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be ‘replaced’ by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten…. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.
Did he really say that? This is the guy who not only altered the original films and airbrushed Sebastian Shaw out of the end of Jedi, but then refused to release the originals onto DVD. Eventually he complied (after everyone had bought the SE releases) but then they were direct transfers from previous releases, they didn't bother to clean up the negatives and remove the blemishes and the others damages over time.
Please Lucas, don't be a colossal knob. Release the original editions properly with a bit of restoration work done to them to make them what they were like in the cinema. Remove dirt and scratches from the negatives - that is good. Putting Jar Jar Binks shouting "Weeesssaa freee!!" in the distance on Naboo at the end of ROTJ is not cool.
The Mad Tanker wrote:For better or worst, they are cannon. George Lucas says they are, as well as most of the novels written in the time after the original three.
I am starting to think I am the only person who kinda likes the prequels (well except the first one), but that is the opinion of a humble trekkie
I like the first and third. Wasn't too much of a fan of the second.
sebster wrote:
I'm not sure that's true. I know Lucas was always very distant from the EU stuff, and considered none of it binding on any future material he was going to write.
The question was "Do YOU consider it non-canon?"
It's an opinion question. My answer was correct for me.
You might not think the same. I care very little whether or not you do.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
The best thing I've seen about the blueray Star Wars release, was a guy on Amazon 
1,000 pts 27-8-10
15 pts 0-0-0
1,000 pts 3-1-0
