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I find that 20 shootas are just as good as 3 kmb for taking out TEQ . 20 shoots =13 hits =6 wounds=1 dead where a kmb is 1.5 hits =1 wounds=1 dead . So grotzookas would be the same as a KMB if you manage to get at least 6 wounds out of all 6 templates . If you manage to get 2 hitsoff each template ( ~10 wounds =2 dead )than the grotzooka is way better at killing TEQ that the KMB.The KMB does really add anything to tank hunting over the rokkit and is a waste of points shooting MEQ. The KMB's only real advantage is T5+ with FnP as the target can still FnP a rokkit which might be helpful if your playing Nids or Daemons .

yesterday the greatness of zookas was proven again. i had one zooka left and my bro deep striked his swooping hawks onto the board; sadly too close to the zooka. Bam, hits twice, hawks blasted into oblivion by a thousand flying screws and metal bits. or that deamon guy has his bloodletters appear too close to a lone kan.... deepstrike formation, hits them all, all gone.

but the zooka sometimes malfunction as well.... i had a kan blow up by a scattered shot :(
or the lone boyz-nob who had to claim the crucial objective...killed by a scattered shot. lost the game....

But anyway, zookas are great fun and usually kill more enemies than friendly troops, as long as you are not facing spees meweens

Grotzookas are amazing against marines. when they get out of a rhino they more more than likely going to be clumped and at is the best time to hit them if you get unlucky and only manage 10 wounds (using 3 kans not 1) thats still 3 dead marines and if they are within zooka range than there is a good chance they are in assault range either is turn or next

azgrim wrote:Grotzookas are amazing against marines. when they get out of a rhino they more more than likely going to be clumped and at is the best time to hit them if you get unlucky and only manage 10 wounds (using 3 kans not 1) thats still 3 dead marines and if they are within zooka range than there is a good chance they are in assault range either is turn or next

i am using 3, but they kepp getting blown up so in turn 4 its only one left...

well hopefully by turn 4 everything would be dead

KingCracker wrote:

Blah blah and blah

So yea, go ahead and take a gak ton of Lootas, if it works for you then cool, but my army benefits greatly having 3 units of 5 lootas instead of one or two units of 15.

Shaken? Stunned? So.... you taking out transport with what Power Klaws? yah about that... explosion and 6+ save = bad

Tell me who is charging my Lootas when I have 90+ Boyz, 9 Killa Kan marching at them and Snikrot and his cronies Ambushing? Why would I even care?

Just remember when someone "redirects" fire at your lootas with Rhino stormbolter, or tankshocks and causes them to run off the board, that sound you hear in the distance is me laughing.

You guys keep up the good work don't let me stop you...

General_Chaos wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Blah blah and blah

So yea, go ahead and take a gak ton of Lootas, if it works for you then cool, but my army benefits greatly having 3 units of 5 lootas instead of one or two units of 15.

Shaken? Stunned? So.... you taking out transport with what Power Klaws? yah about that... explosion and 6+ save = bad

In a Kan wall? With dreadnought close combat weapons, rokkits and grotzookas, maybe even big shootaz. In a battlewagon bash army deff rollas, planks and buggies. Assuming 2x lootaz don't hit anything, of course. Even if you have to crack something in CC, you should be near a big mek providing 5+ cover.

Tell me who is charging my Lootas when I have 90+ Boyz, 9 Killa Kan marching at them and Snikrot and his cronies Ambushing? Why would I even care?

Drop pods, DoA assault marines, daemons, terminators, and basically any flanking or deep-striking unit in the game. After they killed you lootaz, they will have a great time attacking your wall from the wrong side.

Just remember when someone "redirects" fire at your lootas with Rhino stormbolter, or tankshocks and causes them to run off the board, that sound you hear in the distance is me laughing.

A strom bolter has close to no chance to make 5 lootaz run. You also can DoG any tank shock and potentially blow up the rhino now and then, if it doesn't immobilize itself when driving into the terrain your lootaz should be in. Few marine players will risk their rhino again to tank shock a 75 point unit, if they weren't in a ruin the first place. That is, if it ever gets back there, which you yourself claim to be impossible.

You guys keep up the good work don't let me stop you...

Arrogance is inadequate for someone who brought nothing but insults, rather than arguments.

I would choose the Grotzooka over anything else for Kans. I don't have Kans yet, but I really want some to lay down Blast templates on my friend's IG blobs. Stategically they rock, but more impotant than that (for an ork player at least) it's fun fluff wise and random wise. Even though it sucks when a blast scatters into your own Boyz or back at your Kan, you can't help but laugh because you know your Boyz are loving the mayhem anyway.

Slightly Ot, but I remember once I was playing against my friends Necrons and right before I assaulted with my mob of Boyz with a nob and Warphead, I rolled a 'Ere We Go and really didn't want to DS away and miss out on assault, so (stupidly, in retrospect) I re-rolled hoping to get a better power then face palmed when I saw a single dot staring up at me... then I proceeded to watch my Warpheads head explode and wipe out all my Boyz, leaving only my Nob and Warphead left, made me lose the game, but it still made me smile.

General_Chaos wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Blah blah and blah

So yea, go ahead and take a gak ton of Lootas, if it works for you then cool, but my army benefits greatly having 3 units of 5 lootas instead of one or two units of 15.

Shaken? Stunned? So.... you taking out transport with what Power Klaws? yah about that... explosion and 6+ save = bad

Tell me who is charging my Lootas when I have 90+ Boyz, 9 Killa Kan marching at them and Snikrot and his cronies Ambushing? Why would I even care?

Just remember when someone "redirects" fire at your lootas with Rhino stormbolter, or tankshocks and causes them to run off the board, that sound you hear in the distance is me laughing.

You guys keep up the good work don't let me stop you...

Dammit Jidmah, your too fast for my counter argument






OT - yup, I assaulted transports with PK when I first started Orks a couple years ago. You learn real fast, thats NOT how you do it. Jidmah covered everything I would of said, so you can just read his post twice I guess.

Jidmah wrote:In a Kan wall? With dreadnought close combat weapons, rokkits and grotzookas, maybe even big shootaz. In a battlewagon bash army deff rollas, planks and buggies. Assuming 2x lootaz don't hit anything, of course. Even if you have to crack something in CC, you should be near a big mek providing 5+ cover.

Grotzooka? Big Shootas? Really....Ok cracking transport filled with meltagun totting models... guess what happens next?

Drop pods, DoA assault marines, daemons, terminators, and basically any flanking or deep-striking unit in the game. After they killed you lootaz, they will have a great time attacking your wall from the wrong side.

Again why would I care? ok on turn one droppods, or anything that can drop on turn one, don't really have anywhere to land and if they do they get eaten. Anything deepstriking lands turn two, then gets shot to hell, then gets to assault my Lootas on turn three. Then on turn FOUR if they get out of that combat they can "attack" my Boyz in the rear? Think about it...

A strom bolter has close to no chance to make 5 lootaz run. You also can DoG any tank shock and potentially blow up the rhino now and then, if it doesn't immobilize itself when driving into the terrain your lootaz should be in. Few marine players will risk their rhino again to tank shock a 75 point unit, if they weren't in a ruin the first place. That is, if it ever gets back there, which you yourself claim to be impossible.

Two shots, two kills, leadership check...

Arrogance is inadequate for someone who brought nothing but insults, rather than arguments.

I believe I was disputing your tactics... oh that must meaning arrogance

General_Chaos wrote:Grotzooka? Big Shootas? Really....Ok cracking transport filled with meltagun totting models... guess what happens next?

They get charged and die. How do deff rollas care about meltas at all? Or rokkits? Or lootaz? Why should I charge kanz at one of the few meltagun transport if I have lootaz, rokkits, big shootaz and grotzookaz to open up that one transport? Or boyz, nobz or a warboss? Seriously, don't call tactics "fail" if you have no idea how to use the involved units.

Again why would I care? ok on turn one droppods, or anything that can drop on turn one, don't really have anywhere to land and if they do they get eaten. Anything deepstriking lands turn two, then gets shot to hell, then gets to assault my Lootas on turn three. Then on turn FOUR if they get out of that combat they can "attack" my Boyz in the rear? Think about it...

Turn one they shoot your boyz units to bits, due to not getting 4+ cover from kan wall. As you are unable to get a KFF near an exploding vehicle, you probably won't have one near your back either. Turn two they charge your lootaz, turn three they shoot some more boyz and maybe assault. 18" shoota range also makes it quite hard to shoot a deep striking unit "to hell" if you already moved towards the enemy. Oh, and flanking as well as some deep striking units can charge when coming from reserve, nice complete dodge of that argument.

A strom bolter has close to no chance to make 5 lootaz run. You also can DoG any tank shock and potentially blow up the rhino now and then, if it doesn't immobilize itself when driving into the terrain your lootaz should be in. Few marine players will risk their rhino again to tank shock a 75 point unit, if they weren't in a ruin the first place. That is, if it ever gets back there, which you yourself claim to be impossible.

Two shots, two kills, leadership check...

So, let me get this straight:
You spend an extra 300 points on two units that have an average of 1.3 results which stop a rhino to increase that to 2 results, because otherwise "THEY WONT HIT ANYTHING!!!".
However, you are afraid of a gun which will only put an average of .33 unsaved wounds on lootaz, with a immensely lower (less than 3%) chance of killing two lootaz than the rhino being destroyed by a five lootaz.
With that mindset you should really switch to Grey Knights. You kow, they all have those awesome strombolters which kill two T4 models in cover when shooting with a ballistic skill of 4.

Arrogance is inadequate for someone who brought nothing but insults, rather than arguments.

I believe I was disputing your tactics... oh that must meaning arrogance

@ Jidmah:

well said!

Yeah, I have been using zookas
I really started thinking about it. Most people are right, the Big shoota role should be taken by the lootas (which I use 2x 5).
The str6 is a big deal, @ 1000point games (which is why we are even talking about big shootas) you see a lot of T4, which if you do hit its a 2+ instead of 3+ and you can pop AV10 if you lootas missed for some reason
I still stand by my KMB choice. For the boyz wiping 2+, I never get enough into assault range to get a massive amount of attacks. I use trukks so I do not have the big blobs of boyz myself.
I have rokkits on my trukks and my boyz squads have rokkits
I know it’s only BS2 but the trukk upgrade is cheap 45 points for 6 rokkits! (3 on squads 3 on trukks) ( With 4 more KMB I have 10 str 8 )
I love the zooka, and now I am convinced it is the best choice.
I just got to keep play testing.
Thanks for your logical inputs



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@ Azgrim, I use shootas and KMB If i have 20 shootas and 3 KMB that is 2 wounds. I know KMB is a lot cheaper than 20 shootas for a > result (in shooting).

I actually like Big Shoota Kans, if only for comparative range, as well as there being some situations where I wish to be able to fire at targets on turn 1 (Long Fangs/Typhoon Speeders/Venoms/etc) while leaving my Rokkitbuggies/Lootas able to shoot at other (or the same) targets as needed. Or to have a chance at firing from reserve if needed (Spearhead deployment much?) Alternately, against some armies, the range makes it easier for me to run forward and get enfilade shots on some vehicles (read: Chimeras) when fighting against armies I want to advance against anyway...

I would like Grotzookas more were it not for Range issues...they *are* deadly, don't get me wrong, but it usually takes a few turns before I get to use them...Nowadays when running them, I find myself instead running units of "Two Rokkit Kans and a Grotzooka Kan", the theory being that for the first few turns, while I work on attritioning my opponent's mech down (with Buggies and Lootas too), the Grotzooka serves as the "bulletcatcher/third guy out." In short, who I allocate hits too. As the game goes on and there are more viable infantry targets, the roles reverse, with the AT Kans absorbing for the Grotzookas (for most purposes, I find a single one "enough"). I figure with some tweaks, I can run a similar setup with units of "2 Rokkitbuggies and Skorcha" though that would bear more testing based on my ability to write a supporting list.

Jidmah wrote: big shootaz and grotzookaz to open up that one transport

You heard it hear fellas. Big Shootas! The new Anti-Tank Weapon sweeping the internet... please Jimmy your embarrassing yourself.

You, sir, should stay away from tactic forums, as you have no skill in tactics or argumentation whatsoever.

That, or you are trolling, in which case you should stay away, too.

Rokkits or zooka. There should already be a plethora of big shootas in your army, wasting BS3 on 3 more is not needed. I run rokkit kans and have a blast killing MEQ all day. 1 hit? 1 dead marine. Another hit, another dead marine. Plus, if you don't use them to kill those cowardly marines in their armor(seriously, who wears armor?) then you can use it against their metally boxes they hide in so much.

-cgmckenzie

Yeah I agree with how rokkits blow up 3+ and AV.

Jidmah wrote:You, sir, should stay away from tactic forums, as you have no skill in tactics or argumentation whatsoever.

That, or you are trolling, in which case you should stay away, too.

Damn right I have no tactical sense! That why am here! Am taking off those expensive rockets on my kanz as we speak to replace them with big shootas! Mech-guard beware!

Please don't make me come in here and have to start handing out warnings and/or suspensions.

It's fine to disagree, but please do so politely.

General_Chaos wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You, sir, should stay away from tactic forums, as you have no skill in tactics or argumentation whatsoever.

That, or you are trolling, in which case you should stay away, too.

Damn right I have no tactical sense! That why am here! Am taking off those expensive rockets on my kanz as we speak to replace them with big shootas! Mech-guard beware!

modeling tip. use magnets so you can use different armaments on your same kanz without having to have a ton of em

Ahh man magnets have helped me the most

G00fySmiley wrote:zookas every time.

I actually like kmb /shrug. I even sometimes (prepares for harsh rebukes) throw a mek with kmb in a group of lootas. usually I do this as a repair shop for vehicles... IE weapon destroyed on a lone rokkti buggie zips back and mek tries to repair. btu the kmb does come in haby on some thing. esp against heavier armour and termies getitng close.. plus it adds to thier threat being able to get that shot off and the opponent knows it

now on kanz I can see kmb being ok I'd take rokkits before them unless I has points to spare, but to each thier own. the BS3 beats BS2 ... but still I'd prefer a template leave the vehicle hunting for the kannonz and lootaz usually and as king and jidmah will /have both advised lootas in squads of 5 work best and all you need is shaken/stunned then stop bothering to put shots in it (unless it is sm vehicles... stupid power of the machine spirit)

I absolutely love KMBs. But having the Meks in Loota squads actually doesn't work that well. I run 3 Meks in a Burna squad- all Assault weapons, so I'm not afraid to move them around, and 3 Meks have a much better chance of repairing something than 1 does, and a much better chance of hitting. Also, then you have a squad with AP 2, and Power Weapons. Great for Termie hunting.

the grotzookas would be MUCH better against any form of blobby army (nids orks IG ect.) Big shootas are out of the question. However if dealing with SM SOB or GK, rokits FTW

I played against a Terminator heavy army last night. The KMB was insane, I killed 4 termies in 1 volley, I am using 6 KMB Kans and 2 Grotzooka. My second game I played IG, which KMB now sucks compared to rokkits. But it was only 30 wasted points, the grotzookas shined that game, 7 troops of his blob got blown up in 2 shots ( a big shoota can NOT do that ).... So long story short Grotzooka + KMB!

Yeah, when I finally get some Kans I'm going to give 2 the zookas and the other one a KMB to give the squad a bit more versatility. Def not going to give them Big Shootas, I leave those to my Deffkoptas for the nice TL and to Outflank an annoying unit like my friend's IG Autocannons or Mortars.

I've always run Rokkits or KMB (Curse those Termies making me spend extra points ) just because of the better chance at shooting... I've been wanting to try out Zookers for awhile now and all this template love has made me decide to go fot it on my next game Sunday

(KMB is really worth the points unless you are 100% sure no termies/oblits will be showing up)

marv335 wrote:Grotzookas.
every single time.
Big shootas, I have plenty of them already.

Tekeino, I also use Skorchas on them, to great success. Want me to PM you my address?

If you would be so kind

Can you explain why you use them on the best ballistic skill we have? when its an auto hit weapon....

I just dont see the point when we can get so many flamers on things that have lower ballistic skill, especially compared to the extremely low number of Str 8 AP 3 we have. (Tankbustas dont count, cos their rules are painful. They might be usefull. But the Glory Hogs rule puts me off)

In place of Skorchas, I'd just have some Burnas follow close behind with a couple of Meks and let the Burnas step in to burn down any near by infantry, even though Burnas are weaker than Skorchas.

Grotzooka


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Jidmah wrote:That, or you are trolling, in which case you should stay away, too.

Thats illegal now by the way. See the papers!