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So grotzooka or bigshoota
My other 6 Kans use KMB ( AP2 STR8 for Ork is much needed against 2+ )

I love grotzooka, I think it is cool to shoot 2 blasts and it seems like it gets a fair amount of wounds in.
Here are some pros and cons of grotzooka over big shoota
Pros
1: 2 blasts an attack
2: Str 6 ( a lot of T4 out there which means 2+ to wound )
3: C’mon just picture a grotzooka firing, that would be an epic site
Cons
1: Its only 18” inch range
2: Scatter sucks against light AV vehicles and small squads
3: You can fire big shoota at something turn 1 ( most the time )
4: Most players put their units 2” apart when blasts are on the field
5: AP5 is the same as big shoota
So can somebody please help me make this choice??
THanks

Grotzooka, big shootas can easily be taken else where. 6 S6 template is nothing to laugh at. Light AT is best left to Lootas anyway.
Or go with more Rokkit/Blasta, Orks have plenty of anti-infantry already.

When it comes down to valuable heavy support squads, in an army with limitied anti tank ( at range) AND your guys hjave BS 3 !!!!!!

I reccomend rockets or zooka's. But i will find where you live you and slap you if you put skorchas on them.

LOL of course I do not use skorchas on Kans, I use KMB on the other 6 because of anti tank anti 2+, I really think BS3 really helps the Bigshoota over grotzooka, 9 bigshoota shots vs 6 grotzooka BS3 = 4.5 big shoots hit vs 2 grotzooka direct hits. This is for a 1000 point list that has 0 lootas so that is why big shootas are even in debate, because they should be rokkits or KMB otherwise

But why take Kans with bigshoota instead of lootas?

Because a 225 point loota squad turns and runs off the board after one round of shooting every game once your opponent finds out how good they are...

Well Kans get the KFF and can do something if getting assaulted. Nothing worse than somebody deep striking, sneaking, or able to range in and make lootas do a moral test (or wipe them), in 1k game, I would rather take a lesser shooty group that has a way higher survivability rate.

Dave-c wrote:Because a 225 point loota squad turns and runs off the board after one round of shooting every game once your opponent finds out how good they are...

Drawing off anti-infantry fire from your boyz is not necessary a bad thing, though I see your point.

My list is
Mek KFF ( in one of the trukks )
3 KMB kan
3 KMB kan
3 ??? kan
3x trukks with boyz and nobz and pks
all benifit from KFF until trukks are in range for dropping off the boyz
So if this helps you giving me advice that would be great

dont use kmbs, theyre not worth the extra 5 points for the ap2, jut take rokkitz. only kmb when shooting at termie. And you can use zookas in turn 1, because you can walk and fire (6" walk + 18" range = 24" effective range)

I think the KMB is well worth the 5 points. When dont you see 2+? I get wrecked by 2 squads of terminators. Plus 30 points does not buy much.

Grotzookas.
every single time.
Big shootas, I have plenty of them already.

Tekeino, I also use Skorchas on them, to great success. Want me to PM you my address?

I dont think he meant that skorchas would not work on Kans because they do, it just takes the only mobile BS3 slot for a templete. In my 1k point list I only have 3 big shootas with the boyz in the trukks. The trukks themselves have rokkits.

That's a good idea actually, never thought of that.

I'd definitely take zookas over big shootas - more versatile, and you have plenty of big shootas elsewhere in the army.

I've never really seen Big Shootas as a competitive, or even remotely good choice for Kanz.

As far as I've seen it, it's always Rokkits or Zookas. I tend to alternate between the two depending on which army I'm facing.

Dave-c wrote:Because a 225 point loota squad turns and runs off the board after one round of shooting every game once your opponent finds out how good they are...

Who the hell runs a full squad of Lootas anyways? 5 Lootas per squad is all Ive ever needed. 75pts vs 225? One has a good chance of smoking transports, the other WILL, but at a huge cost? Besides, the main reason my Lootas are there is to get shot at. Yes, they normally blow the hell out of vehicles for me, but as soon as my enemy is close enough to shoot them, they almost ALWAYS go for the lootas. Which is fine by me, I can sit back and laugh as they use 1 or 2 squads that range from 150-220pts, to shoot down 1 75pts squad of Lootas.

And that means they ARNT shooting the rest of my army.





OT yea rookits or zookas, if you dont want rokkits, then zookas, if you dont want zookas, then rokkits. Pretty strait forward

AllYourBase wrote: 9 bigshoota shots vs 6 grotzooka BS3 = 4.5 big shoots hit vs 2 grotzooka direct hits.

Your math is significantly off.

1/3 of the Scatter dice rolls are Direct hits, there is your 2.

Then you have an 8.333% chance to scatter 0" so that is another 1/2 Direct hit.

Direct hits are very rarely to almost never targeted as Single models, and when they are targeted at single models then a 1-3" scatter is preferable, this is a 41.66% overall chance to scatter 0-3", this will average a wanted hit of 4 out of 6 times, and will likely be hitting 8-12 models from those shots. 8-12 is far better than 4.5.

Then we get into the damage capability: the grotzooka wounds 16.666% more enemies(any T over 4), however it is much preferable to hit light vehicles/transports with at least a S6 instead of a S5.

Grotzooka

KingCracker wrote:
Who the hell runs a full squad of Lootas anyways? 5 Lootas per squad is all Ive ever needed. 75pts vs 225? One has a good chance of smoking transports, the other WILL, but at a huge cost? Besides, the main reason my Lootas are there is to get shot at. Yes, they normally blow the hell out of vehicles for me, but as soon as my enemy is close enough to shoot them, they almost ALWAYS go for the lootas. Which is fine by me, I can sit back and laugh as they use 1 or 2 squads that range from 150-220pts, to shoot down 1 75pts squad of Lootas.

I do! mobs of 12-15 x 2 are standard issue for my Kan Wall. 5 lootas are fail, to much gambling on hot dice. Orks shooting is about dumping buckets of dice. When I fire I want it dead not, gee I hope I roll a 5 or 6s for three consecutive times.

As for the Kanz, I have found it doesn't matter much to me what they carry cause I am running most of the time, but Rokkits are the best because everyone fears them and shoots at them first, which just happens to be my Kanz job.

You don't need most vehicles dead, shaken oder weapon destroyed is just as good most of the time.
And as for ork shooting, five lootaz have the same firepower as three IG heavy weapon teams with autocannons - far from fail.

Grotzookas, all the way.

Why? No bs required, just scatter dice. Also higher strength.

My Kan squad with 3 grotzookas has done horrible, horrible things... besides... they're much cooler.

General_Chaos wrote:

KingCracker wrote:
Who the hell runs a full squad of Lootas anyways? 5 Lootas per squad is all Ive ever needed. 75pts vs 225? One has a good chance of smoking transports, the other WILL, but at a huge cost? Besides, the main reason my Lootas are there is to get shot at. Yes, they normally blow the hell out of vehicles for me, but as soon as my enemy is close enough to shoot them, they almost ALWAYS go for the lootas. Which is fine by me, I can sit back and laugh as they use 1 or 2 squads that range from 150-220pts, to shoot down 1 75pts squad of Lootas.

I do! mobs of 12-15 x 2 are standard issue for my Kan Wall. 5 lootas are fail, to much gambling on hot dice. Orks shooting is about dumping buckets of dice. When I fire I want it dead not, gee I hope I roll a 5 or 6s for three consecutive times.

As for the Kanz, I have found it doesn't matter much to me what they carry cause I am running most of the time, but Rokkits are the best because everyone fears them and shoots at them first, which just happens to be my Kanz job.

I actually dont sit there hoping to roll 5s/6s a bunch of times. Im not looking to blow the vehicle up into bits, when it happens, cool, but thats not what Im hoping for. As Jidmah said, stuns or better is what I look for. Not to mention, me loosing 5 Lootas, or 75pts worth of unit is a HELL of alot better then you loosing a couple Lootas, and running away, or being caught in an assault and being chopped up. You loose FAR more points then I do. Also you run the risk of your Lootas actually staying in combat when charged. why does that suck? Because if charged, you have a decent chance of sticking around, meaning that during YOUR turn, your lootas finally give up.

Now my 5 lootas that I "pray" for, will be wiped in no time being charged, and thats fine. Because NOW the chargers are sitting in the open, on my turn, and so are going to be riddled with bullets and murdered in combat. Also since my unit of Lootas is so cheap, as I mentioned previously, my opponents are wasting their resources firing at them, because most the time, units that shoot at them are alot more then 75pts, and Ive not only afforded 3 units of 5 cutting numbers down, but also saved so many points Ive added a few nods or a bunch of boyz elsewhere.

So yea, go ahead and take a gak ton of Lootas, if it works for you then cool, but my army benefits greatly having 3 units of 5 lootas instead of one or two units of 15.

if the choice is BS vs GZ, i take the zooka's. all the big shootas ar in my shoota boy mobz.

Not to get too far OT... but a 40 pt grot squad (I think it's 40 pts) is often a good bit of insurance for a loota squad as a screen. Will often buy them an extra turn of shooting & gives you a scoring unit in the deployment zone on-the-cheap.

I would run rokkits on all the kans, as you can bring down AP2 armor with sheer volume of attacks on boys,.

On groot zookas, they are great anti infantry, however the ork codex has that in spades, what is sorely needed is anti amour, and the BS 3 of the kans with cheap rokkits fulfills this role, thus I suggest rokkits on kans, always.

That being said if you must choose betweenzooka and the big shoota, I would choose the zooka.

Zooka or Rokkits. KMB's for higher points games to take out TEQ's.

zookas every time.

I actually like kmb /shrug. I even sometimes (prepares for harsh rebukes) throw a mek with kmb in a group of lootas. usually I do this as a repair shop for vehicles... IE weapon destroyed on a lone rokkti buggie zips back and mek tries to repair. btu the kmb does come in haby on some thing. esp against heavier armour and termies getitng close.. plus it adds to thier threat being able to get that shot off and the opponent knows it

now on kanz I can see kmb being ok I'd take rokkits before them unless I has points to spare, but to each thier own. the BS3 beats BS2 ... but still I'd prefer a template leave the vehicle hunting for the kannonz and lootaz usually and as king and jidmah will /have both advised lootas in squads of 5 work best and all you need is shaken/stunned then stop bothering to put shots in it (unless it is sm vehicles... stupid power of the machine spirit)

Coming from a guard player 3x grotzookas bearing down on my blobs makes me pee a little. Big shootas not so much